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Strongest 4-D Characters on the Wiki

For Castlevania shouldn't the reps be Soma Cruz and Julius Belmont? Soma is literally Dracula but better and defeats Chaos, and Julius is stated to be able to contend with him
 
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AlphaOmegaV1 said:
For Castlevania shouldn't the reps be Soma Cruz and Julius Belmont? Soma is literally Dracula but better and defeats Chaos, and Julius is stated to be able to contend with him
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It kind of doesn't matter.

It could be Soma or Dracula.

Chaos is there because of the advantage of non-existent physiology, not because of greater power.

Julius, despite being a wall of hax resistance, doesn't have as much offensive hax as the last two. So to represent the "mainly", Dracula/Soma and Chaos are the best.
 
Phsccarvalho said:
All kinds of immortality in a broken form + Plot hax that rewrites the narrative for Dracula to win, basically preventing anything within his range from getting close.
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Less about them dying and more Giratina nuking the cosmology and leaving them in a state they can't actually do anything in, and thus incapped that way
 
Deonment said:
Less about them dying and more Giratina nuking the cosmology and leaving them in a state they can't actually do anything in, and thus incapped that way
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Dracula stays inside his castle, which is already a 2-C of its own. And anything that comes near the castle will be automatically nullified.

So even if the entire cosmology is destroyed, Dracula will just stay inside his castle walking around.
 
Oblivion_Of_The_Endless said:
Inspired by this thread, but now with 4-D characters.

If you are wondering how this is different than the non-smurf list, check the second rule below.

Rules:
  • Anything above 4-D isn't allowed.
  • As long as the character has a 4-D hax/ability/stat/weapon, etc on the tier section, they can be nominated. (Ex: A character that is 10-B but has a Low 2-C weapon is still allowed to be on the list and can compete against a physically 2-A character if they are capable of doing so).
  • Time-related abilities wont count, as long as they are standard (i.e. time stop). While they are technically 4-D, we won't consider them because it would take away the uniqueness of the thread. Exceptions to this would be if the time ability in question has a tier for it (somehow, because of verse mechanics). Ex: "10-B. 2-A with Time Manipulation" would be allowed.
  • If you nominate a character without proposing a specific spot for it, I'll just put it in an open spot.
  • Speed Equal will be assumed (spots via speed unequal are allowed, but you'll have to specify it in your nomination)
  • SBA for the rest.

1. Characters from Dragon Talisman
2. Cui Heng
3. Characters from Final Fantasy / Characters from Madoka Magica (Madoka & Homura)
4. Giratina / Characters from Castlevania (Dracula & Chaos)
5. Characters from Maou Gakuin (Anos Voldigoad & Graham)
6. Characters from Turma da Monica (Dona Morte & Cebolinha)
7. Characters from Undertale (Chara & Asriel)
8. Characters from Destiny (Oryx & The Witness)
9. Wang Wei
10. Mori Dan
11. Mundus
12. Kirby
13. Characters from Bleach (Yhwach & Soul King)
14. Beerus
15.
16.
17.
18.
19.
20.
21.
22.
23.
24.
25.
26.
27
28.
29.
30.
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Heaven Ascension DIO?

I just don't know if he would be below or above Beerus.
 
Time for Chinamen. The Dao League of Chinamen.

Linley Baruch

Qin Yu (Grandmist Duology)

Luo Yuan

Meng Chuan

Zhong Yue

Meng Hao (Spirit Realm) - Spirit Severing key as the next hax tier 1 hax.

Wang Lin (Renegade Immortal)

Likely more, but im on phone rn. Put them on open spots as its too much to talk about them on phone till I get acces to pc after work.

Order till then its likely: Qin Yu=Linley Baruch (talent wise Qin Yu is above)>Luo Yuan>Meng Chuan or Zhong Yue>Wang Lin>Meng Hao. Well hard with so many powers to truly put them in an order.

I summon all Chinamen supporters, they shall preach the Dao.
 
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So, Linley/Qin Yu will defeat all till Mori Jin through AP alone without needing to actually use hax, if needed at their level each of their attack is a concept type 1 power so yeah, not many will resist vs 2B with infinite attack speed. Mori Jin is tricky thanks to his Nonduality. Now, since the profiles are old and not really updated with several powers that were added overtime or changed they don't have on profile the non-physical interaction with such beings but their Concept Manipulation allows them to control all elements, dualities within the universe (the five elements - wind, water, earth, fire, lighting [which form all existence and powers including light and heavy, space, time, illusions, creation, destruction, fate, void, etc] , darkness and light, yin and yang, primal chaos) then I think they should fit the requirement. If so, then they can defeat him too...I will not touch Wang Wei, he's too dangerous...may he not control thy fate.
Linley/Qin Yu either take Mori's place or Ergo Mundus - so 10th or 11th but these will be either way actually 11th and 12th as Wei Huo will defeat them all including Mori Jin.​

Wei Huo - coming to him, he got 2-B to 2-A AP with immeasurable speed, concept type 1, nonduality Type 2 based on CM1, Law, Logic, has nonexistent physiology, fuse with 2A cosmologies, and more but these should be enough for Mori. Now facing Wang Wei is again dangerous...He should be able to interact with him even if he uses his Nonexistent state as its something temporary and can't be sustained for much....now at how many layers, versatility of powers, schemes, immortalities, development, etc if he survies likely will come back stronger if given time which depends on how much we allow. Will wait for @Rikimarox2 response here. One who I truly fear, the Fate Emperor. For Destiny, not sure so I'll wait your response @Oblivion_Of_The_Endless if Wei Huo manages to beat Wang Wei.
So, Wei Huo > Mori Jin or Qin Yu/Linley >then the rest.​

Luo Yuan is a strange one - exist across multiple dimensions including the fourth dimension, can control all laws of physics, his attacks can make 4D beings into 3D beings (so in way we could say he could turn all his foes into a lower dimensionality than himself but as his verse doesn't have much exoteric hax, he lacks the way to interact with them), the concept of space is irrelevant to him thus distance and size doesn't matter, can create 635 million probability quantum clones, BFR things to the 4th dimension and create Klein Bottles to send attacks through them, his attacks have such accuracy that even future sight of a 4th dimensional being that can see hundreds of billions of dimensional changes can't dodge it, plus cover himself within hundreds of layers of 4th dimensional space.
Really not sure where to nominate him, I'll need some help here.​

Meng Chuan can't overpower Beerus as he's 3-B to likely High 3-A but beyond that he's eclipsing the Cat on all things. He can just stop the entire timeline and then kill Beerus through hax. He can't be killed as a memory, a book, a legend or the like about him exist. He can travel to the past or the future as he see like and corrupt any being by having any knowledge about himself - all types and descend directly within their body to take control. Learn anything about anyone as long as they still exist within a timeline. He got a lot more powers like offensive hax - likely quantum matter manip, karma, samsara, black holes, life, death, origin, chaos, nirvana/void, spacetime, etc but just the first ones should be enough for anyone bellow Beerus, and likely Yhwach and Soul King too.
I would put him bellow Luo Yuan (whatever slot this guy gets).​

Zhong Yue, Wang Lin and Meng Hao while slower and lower AP than Beerus should outhax him so much that its not even funny just through passives like soul/mind hax. Now for Yhwach/Soul King is hard without a match likely but I say Zhong Yue takes it after hard fight thanks to his Daos that are offensive/defensive powers based on type 2 concepts and the worst thing that Yhwach can throw at him is Nonexistent Erasure but ZY can control such a state himmself so won't be affected (the difference being in their aspects Yhwach - type 1 and 3 while ZY is type 1 and 2).

Wang Lin and Meng Hao likely can't defeat Yhwach in these keys so will not debate here really. So put them above Beerus (if any other opinion is not given on how Beerus can win with just AP/Speed).

Another contender is Su Ming which is in the same power level as Wang Lin/ Meng Hao but weaker than them hax wise. So its goes Wang Lin > Meng Hao > Su Ming on slots.

Xue Ying (Chaotic_Origin) is also a strong contender but I'm waiting for @Planck69 's perspective on this (which key was the strongest 4D), he's more than sure above these last 4 mentioned (Zhong Yue, Wang Lin, Meng Hao, Su Ming).

​
 
Zaratthustra said:
Wei Huo - coming to him, he got 2-B to 2-A AP with immeasurable speed, concept type 1, nonduality Type 2 based on CM1, Law, Logic, has nonexistent physiology, fuse with 2A cosmologies, and more but these should be enough for Mori. Now facing Wang Wei is again dangerous...He should be able to interact with him even if he uses his Nonexistent state as its something temporary and can't be sustained for much....now at how many layers, versatility of powers, schemes, immortalities, development, etc if he survies likely will come back stronger if given time which depends on how much we allow. Will wait for @Rikimarox2 response here. One who I truly fear, the Fate Emperor. For Destiny, not sure so I'll wait your response @Oblivion_Of_The_Endless if Wei Huo manages to beat Wang Wei.
So, Wei Huo > Mori Jin or Qin Yu/Linley >then the rest.​
Click to expand...
Oh boy, chinamen fight.

For NEP, WW can actually sustain it for long, and it was even mentioned that he didn't even know it had a limit until he was destroyed to the brim by the Freedom guy, including being inflicted by a poison that was specifically made to counter him and destroy him. He had to utterly use everything he had minus the willpower, and then he couldn't sustain it for long. Otherwise he should be fine. Not to mention, the NEP is type 2, not type 1. And ND should be type 3, not 2, but that needs a CRT.

Anyways, not sure if it this is a small typo/missing letter, but is WH fused with 2-A cosmology at the beginning, or can he fuse if he wants to, and otherwise he's not 2-A sized (Since I don't really see Large Size on his profile)? If the latter, then I don't really see what stops WW's passive aura (which affects even the Dao Body, which is concept type 1)+ 70+ layers of CM1, Info2, and Law, as WW casually destroys those things even early on. If the former, then the Aura is useless, but fate shenanigans should still be possible, as I don't think it matters whether or not WH is 2-A sized, as Fate encompasses, in this key at least, pretty much everything, and even later on when they casually bring 2-A sized stuff, fate manip still works. So, considering Fate controls even other concepts (that being its main characteristic), I think either Fate Erasure, Cause/Effect erasure, or Fate Severing should be enough, as all of those erase him on fate level, which is even higher than normal history/timeline erasure. Not to mention it controls Yin-Yang as well, which, by itself, encompasses Truth and False, which is ND2 by itself. Also, fate stuff here are much higher compared to other verses' fate, as it can control all other concepts, including those which are above other ones.

Of course, that depends on if WH has something WW doesn't resist (which, honestly, is not a lot), and whether they are passive. Also, WH's stuff being above conventional laws/concepts doesn't really matter much, as In-Verse, there are a bunch of stuff like that, and even Dao itself is considered the origin of all laws (concepts) and are above them entirely.

However, since WW doesn't have immeasurable speed (yet), I think a spot in unequal speed should be possible.

Though idk what WH starts with nor his passives, so let's see.
 
Rikimarox2 said:
Oh boy, chinamen fight.

For NEP, WW can actually sustain it for long, and it was even mentioned that he didn't even know it had a limit until he was destroyed to the brim by the Freedom guy, including being inflicted by a poison that was specifically made to counter him and destroy him. He had to utterly use everything he had minus the willpower, and then he couldn't sustain it for long. Otherwise he should be fine. Not to mention, the NEP is type 2, not type 1. And ND should be type 3, not 2, but that needs a CRT.

Anyways, not sure if it this is a small typo/missing letter, but is WH fused with 2-A cosmology at the beginning, or can he fuse if he wants to, and otherwise he's not 2-A sized (Since I don't really see Large Size on his profile)? If the latter, then I don't really see what stops WW's passive aura (which affects even the Dao Body, which is concept type 1)+ 70+ layers of CM1, Info2, and Law, as WW casually destroys those things even early on. If the former, then the Aura is useless, but fate shenanigans should still be possible, as I don't think it matters whether or not WH is 2-A sized, as Fate encompasses, in this key at least, pretty much everything, and even later on when they casually bring 2-A sized stuff, fate manip still works. So, considering Fate controls even other concepts (that being its main characteristic), I think either Fate Erasure, Cause/Effect erasure, or Fate Severing should be enough, as all of those erase him on fate level, which is even higher than normal history/timeline erasure. Not to mention it controls Yin-Yang as well, which, by itself, encompasses Truth and False, which is ND2 by itself. Also, fate stuff here are much higher compared to other verses' fate, as it can control all other concepts, including those which are above other ones.

Of course, that depends on if WH has something WW doesn't resist (which, honestly, is not a lot), and whether they are passive. Also, WH's stuff being above conventional laws/concepts doesn't really matter much, as In-Verse, there are a bunch of stuff like that, and even Dao itself is considered the origin of all laws (concepts) and are above them entirely.

However, since WW doesn't have immeasurable speed (yet), I think a spot in unequal speed should be possible.

Though idk what WH starts with nor his passives, so let's see.
Click to expand...
He can fuse later, its not his first move, was his way to be able to fight with the Dao Lord after the later fused with 200+ mythical beings. But yeah...as I said Wang Wei is dangerous. The layers are enough to overhax him then.
 
Glad we figured that out.

That reminds me, why are Undertale characters above Oryx? While they do have 2-A shenanigans, none of them are 2-B/2-A sized, no? What stops Oryx from just... passively taking them?
 
Koriel Number 12's second key for at least 15th, but at most 11th by way of AE1 based on CM1 and Info Type 2 along with EE, Reality Warping, and Power Null on that level, passive mind and madness hax, and has effective high godly res as even in base Koriel can die and come back after his Idea Sephira had been removed

Ecang takes at least the same slot as the other Ergen characters, but could prolly reach higher by way of higher cultivation base, giving higher hax and AP

EBF Characters should take a spot somewhere up on the list due to the Players having Immo 8 + Plot/Fate Manip which is superordinate to Info Type 2, and CM1, along with Laws and Fate which are superordinate to those, which ensures they succeed, along with passive law and probability manip that ***** over laws; the Devourer has Info Type 2 EE, Plot Manip of his own along with the afformentioned Law and Fate stuff and Godcat has CM1 AE1, all of Akron's power (which of note include passively being a black hole, layered soul manip, power null and absorption). Each of the aforementioned characters all also have various instances of power null, death manip, antimatter, and prolly more stuff I can't remember rn.
 
Oblivion_Of_The_Endless said:
I updated the list before seeing this, idk who was 15th or 11th before so you should check it again to see where he fits.
Click to expand...
He can beat everyone up to and including Ergo Mundus by way of EE or Purification (which is reducing someone to or removing their Idea Sephira, which can be easily absorbed and contains all of their powers) just getting them on the spot + being uniteractable to most of them
He should be able to beat Mori since, surprisingly, he doesn't seem to have resistance to info manip, so he gets EE'd past his ability to come back, or Purified
I am decently sure he does the same to Linley, Qin Yu and Wei Huo considering no info manip resist on their parts, but he loses to Wang Wei

I also question Destiny's placement below Undertale, and Monica considering how they either get passived, and in they in return can't do much to the Destiny characters before that, considering how in the former case they genuinely can't do anything to Oryx, and Chara only survives by way of NEP, and in the latter case, they get passived, and the regen passive hax won't stop stuff as you would have to show that the plot hax in question is superior to type 1 concepts which supporters would be hard pressed to do given the type 1 concept of death can **** with the plot (and also the passive in question as per the scan literally requires someone doing something), I'm confident that at worst the MG slot is just incon considering neither can really do anything to the other
 
Right so, might as well try to get Wang Wei above Undertale characters (and Monica characters too, I suppose).

For Undertale, I genuinely don't see what they have over WW besides 2-A rating, which kind of don't matter when one has passives that screw you over before you can do anything. Additionally, idk about you guys, but I think doing time shenanigans against a dude who controls the concept of Time is kind of a bad idea.

Additionally, Fate Erasure would erase them from fate, which, in-verse, is higher than History Erasure, and surpasses time, and even disregarding that, WW's conceptual shenanigans are above them, and his punches destroys said concepts. Chara's NEP doesn't really mean jack when WW has one as well, is NEP2, can affect them, and she isn't immune to concept stuff, so like, I think WW should be above them comfortably.

For Monica, pretty much the same thing except she has Plot Stuff, except it doesn't matter when WW just passives her to hell, a single punch would destroy her beyond anything she can return from (Info2, fate erasure, Cause and Effect erasure, etc...), and he has much, much more layers than her.
 
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Zaratthustra said:
Xue Ying (Chaotic_Origin) is also a strong contender but I'm waiting for @Planck69 's perspective on this (which key was the strongest 4D), he's more than sure above these last 4 mentioned (Zhong Yue, Wang Lin, Meng Hao, Su Ming).
Click to expand...
Unity key is his strongest non-smurf 4-D key. He should also have 5 layers or so at that point but I haven't yet established that so it's fine if they're not used.
 
Robo432343 said:
wouldn't it be incon because cebolinha's plot manip is also passive
Click to expand...
Really doesn't seem that much, as it is a generic "Author will always help/protect us", yet from what I'm seeing, the Concept Type 1 seems to be equal or even superior to their Plot shenanigans, and considering how WW toys with such things, I don't think the plot will save them from passive crush or any thought-based attack from him.

Also how is Giratina above Anos characters? I understand the whole destroying cosmology or BFR stuff, but wouldn't Anos just... destroy Giratina before it can do anything?
 
Rikimarox2 said:
Right so, might as well try to get Wang Wei above Undertale characters (and Monica characters too, I suppose).

For Undertale, I genuinely don't see what they have over WW besides 2-A rating, which kind of don't matter when one has passives that screw you over before you can do anything. Additionally, idk about you guys, but I think doing time shenanigans against a dude who controls the concept of Time is kind of a bad idea.
Click to expand...
Asriel has thought based 2-A cosmology wipe and info 2 erasure if that helps
 
Robo432343 said:
Asriel has thought based 2-A cosmology wipe and info 2 erasure if that helps
Click to expand...
2-A stuff could be dangerous, except WW can already live in a void devoid of anything, and even then, Asriel won't get the chance to ever use the 2-A stuff due to passive aura, as well as a single attack from WW erasing him from Fate, erasing his Info, concept, etc...

Also Info 2 erasure don't really matter as WW resists that to hell and back.
 
Phsccarvalho said:
Why? WW has plot hax?
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I wish. No, It's moreso from what I'm seeing on that Plot Hax, and how the verse doesn't really show that said plot hax is above concepts (hence why Oryx is above them, despite not resisting plot hax), and how it just doesn't seem to be that impressive nor does it show to be able to stop Concept Type 1 stuff. I could be wrong, of course, Idk the veres.
Phsccarvalho said:
Asriel just got plot hax.
Click to expand...
Is it this?;
Possibly Plot Manipulation (Changed the plot of the intro to Undertale, to supposedly make all humans and monsters disappear without a trace. Although it's debateable if it actually happened due to him later admitting that he needs a 7th SOUL to destroy humanity, and if the Barrier was actually limiting him from reaching the outside world)
Click to expand...
If so, then it's really underwhelming, and I don't really see it being anything special, nor do I see it being able to stop WW's aura, or Fate/Concept stuff.
 
Rikimarox2 said:
I wish. No, It's moreso from what I'm seeing on that Plot Hax, and how the verse doesn't really show that said plot hax is above concepts (hence why Oryx is above them, despite not having concept hax), and how it just doesn't seem to be that impressive nor does it show to be able to stop Concept Type 1 stuff. I could be wrong, of course, Idk the veres.
Click to expand...
That's not how it works, plot hax and concept type 1 are equalized to be on the same level without any hierarchy over them. Except in cases where there is this hierarchy within the verse, such as slime info2 being superior to concepts (this does not make any info2 from any verse superior to slime concepts in a vs thread, this only applies to info 2 from the verse itself) The same thing you said in your quoted comment I can say to WW since it having concept type 1 does not make it capable of dealing/interacting with plot hax.
 
I guess I worded it wrong. I'm not saying WW's CM is above plot or whatever, but rather, said plot showcase seems really vague, and doesn't really show any thing that implies it can protect from CM1.

Additionally, all the feats for the passive plot stuff on Monica's page are either dead links, or private videos. Just purely going off of the statement, it seems like it'd protect them from harm, but I see no showcase that it would protect from something that could erase concepts.

As for Asirel, it's not really a matter of whether WW resists plot or not, but rather Asriel would get destroyed before he can use it.

I surely hope we don't by default assume plot stuff are able to protect against things that are on the same level as Plot without any showcase of it (stuff like concept, info, etc...). If we do, then... Damn. No clue how Oryx are above them if you need specific resistance to it.

Edit: Additionally, WW himself has passive fate manip that'll make him destined to reach a place and a certain level of power, with fate being above stuff like time and controlling concepts. So-
 
Robo432343 said:
But we shouldn’t assume cm can affect plot stuff either unless shown
Click to expand...
True, we don't. Except WW here isn't affecting the plot, he's directly attacking the characters with concept stuff, and it's a matter of whether the plot would be able to defend against it. Vice versa, WW stuff wouldn't be able to be protected against plot stuff like plot erasure.

Don't really know how we deal with plot stuff, but the above is what I'm excepting and always thought how we did it.
 
Might as well make it clear here, what can Monica characters do? Their feats of passive plot manip are all dead links, so we have no idea how said passive stuff works. If anyone has links to it, I'd appreciate it, otherwise based on purely the text, I really don't see what stops concept stuff.
 
Rikimarox2 said:
I guess I worded it wrong. I'm not saying WW's CM is above plot or whatever, but rather, said plot showcase seems really vague, and doesn't really show any thing that implies it can protect from CM1.

Additionally, all the feats for the passive plot stuff on Monica's page are either dead links, or private videos. Just purely going off of the statement, it seems like it'd protect them from harm, but I see no showcase that it would protect from something that could erase concepts.

As for Asirel, it's not really a matter of whether WW resists plot or not, but rather Asriel would get destroyed before he can use it.

I surely hope we don't by default assume plot stuff are able to protect against things that are on the same level as Plot without any showcase of it (stuff like concept, info, etc...). If we do, then... Damn. No clue how Oryx are above them if you need specific resistance to it.

Edit: Additionally, WW himself has passive fate manip that'll make him destined to reach a place and a certain level of power, with fate being above stuff like time and controlling concepts. So-
Click to expand...
It's not really necessary, the other character linked to TM is "Dona Morte" who has CM1 and Plot hash and resistance. I can't give much more information about it because I'm not a supporter of the verse, but both hash are present within the summer.

At this point I think you should make VS threads and call supporters.
 
Might do that. Though said CM1 character is the one that is destroying everyone else in verse, based on the page, so it really doesn't showcase any of the capabilities of plot. Though I guess I should call supporters when I have the time.

Though, for undertale stuff, do you agree that WW should take their spot?
 
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