Strong-Willed Mage VS Vengeful Scientist (Asuna Kamakura Vs Cobalt) (Bakuhatsu VS VeneficaVerse) (0-0-0)

[VeneficaAuthor]

I’ve been busy most of the day again (Lol) so I’ll probably be back whilst your sleeping once again, mb lol

Not that I can’t handle those types of responses, but I will say that we definitely should cut down, it gets kinda annoying

Perfectly alright! Though having to make a reply right after waking up each morning lately has been interesting to say the least It cuts into V. Verse plot making which I usually do each morning but I also hate knowing there's a notification waiting for me, makes me a bit anxious lol

Also yeah clearly I can too but it takes too much time and effort for this sort of thing, not that it's trivial to either of us, just too time consuming you know

 

[Froggytron]

It’d be a little unfair if I pulled an akumo level response, and also because I don’t wanna get too overly technical

This is the third time I have seen this randomly pop out, had the 8000 reply arguying block (the so far strongest FU unit described on FC/OC mostly bypassed with taking other paths) actually become a meme of this community? xD

^ And also, if Asuna is ever reallllllly stuck there and nothing works for whatever reason, she can always teleport away with a riftway

Here we are again. Worth mentioning that Cobalt's dimensional travel portals had to be nearly nerfed in the co-op tourney we did in the past (against other haxed 6-B characters), combined with a little remembering it becomes one of her main features without a doubt.

Engineered? Is cobalt a robot?

I admire Javen's questions though

I’m sick of these giant replies being countered with giant replies

The last 2 pages of this fight give me certain vibes

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

This is the third time I have seen this randomly pop out, had the 8000 reply arguying block (the so far strongest FU unit described on FC/OC mostly bypassed with taking other paths) actually become a meme of this community? xD

That akumo reply took 4 days of heavy thinking and revision/editing to make

 

[Froggytron]

That akumo reply took 4 days of heavy thinking and revision/editing to make

But hey, it got the interest of Phoenks, no "mere" reply would achieve this

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

But hey, it got the interest of Phoenks, no "mere" reply would achieve this

That’s true, I wonder if he read the whole thing

I know he likes garou a lot so maybe he was interested in how akumo/rapid evolution works

 

[Rayfire]

I’ll try keep this as short as possible

Except that Cobalt HAS been shown doing, that’s what literally all of her notable techniques are. Technically, it isn’t even really power creation, I said on my last reply (a section you appear to have left on read) that part of her whole pre-awakening arc is discovering this power in her which has always been there, and that’s a continued theme up until Marx is dead. My point is that Clbalt has all of these powers already and this ‘power creation’ is actually just her continuing to discover more about it. Why this hasn’t really been shown since is that Cobalt is not a fighter at heart despite how great she actually is at it, and she wishes not to use these powers for hurting others. Also getting very creative with her current set in order to make up what would technically be a new ability isn’t actually power creation, it’s just expanding on what is still just latent for her waiting to be uncovered. Her intellect and efficiency can definitely make it seem like genuine power creation though, and her DNA energy/Blast’s power can be highly versatile. I will say that I won’t be attempting to claim that she could come up with something her powers have yet to show her though (like something poison related for example, Cobalt has never been shown to use her powers for such a thing outside of general radiation affects) although this doesn’t exactly limit her too much.

I guess the being not a fighter at heart thing is fair, But Why does she need to discover more of her potential if she’s already awakened and discovered her potential when she fought Marx? Lol. I did say it makes sense for her to improvise really well given her intelligence, But this obviously isn’t cobalt at her absolute best, since max aura is restricted, so that’s why i don’t think Asuna would be left in the dust completely in terms of gaining new powers and skills. It’s an extraordinary genius with limited resources VS a genius with any resource they can think of type of shebang. Cobalt can make new powers that are at least somewhat derived from her skillset, whilst Asuna is really only limited by her knowledge and skill. Which is why I brought up she could probably copy some of cobalts’ moves, so she’s kind of leeching off of cobalts’ superior intelligence a bit in that regard, and before you say anything, i said SOME.

For Asuna, I guess she could have the Absolute Defense on account of her seeing it before, but I don’t buy the assumption that she’ll be able to come up with something even if she does take significant time trying to that can just auto-counter Cobalt’s stuff. Not only is it just not very plausible but it also reads like NLF and is generally feels unfair in vs context. I can see it being like with cobalt where she can only create things similar to what she’s already displayed creating.

I wasn’t trying to imply that Asuna can just make something that can auto-counter everything and stomp, and yeah, i would say it’s similair to cobalt, since Asuna has only really made fairly simple things from power creation or just outright copy things and make them better (Like with Shizu’s turbocharge) which is why i kinda brought the same thing up for any of cobalts’ moves that Asuna could recreate at a glance, like plutonium hand.

If the main drawback of absolute defense can be outright ignored after just thinking about ways to maybe do it for a while, then what is the point of any drawback at all? It might as well be a true absolute defense and exist as a passive shield blocking everything in that case. I don’t believe that Asuna is at the level of skill where she can outright surpass the flaws of moves, especially those she’s hardly even seen and can only just now copy and likely hasn’t even ever actually used for herself. That seems way out of line to me and even goes against the very point and purpose of the original move, this being to be ‘defense.’ I’ll have a much easier time believing it once Bakuhatsu has advanced further and Asuna has more powers and feats.

I said “May” and “Potentially” for a reason, lol, but after remembering various things (XP system, skill, focus requirement, Asuna’s relative inexperience, etc.) i will say that that idea is kinda dumb, lol. Not that it’s gonna be impossible in the future though

That said, it’s still certainly not impossible for Asuna to adapt on skills and make them in her current version, like with turbocharge for example. Asuna could probably pull off something similair with Cobalts’ Plutonium hand or chains, since they are something that Asuna could definitely understand and reverse-engineer, even if it’s not exactly the same.

Obviously actual degrees of intelect differ between characters, but this is the minimum for Cobalt and Asuna. She simply cannot keep up with her mentally at all. Sheer skill is one thing, being completely outwitted and outsmarted against a fighter who, mind you, seems very similarly skilled already (lots of this thread has been about how equal they are in certain aspects) is a completely different thing. I’m still of the full belief that Cobalt can and will catch Asuna during playback’s cooldown.

And What makes you think that? I think cobalt could definitely know when she’s gone back in time like our boy sans does to frisk in undertale, but at the same time, what can she do about it if Asuna can see all of her attacks coming? How would she even stop her from going back in time? lol. She does have an ability that can nullify any magical abilities (can’t remember the name) but it only works for 4 seconds. That’s a very tiny period of time to plan something and execute it, even for someone as smart as cobalt. Even without her magic, Asuna would still have plenty of things to fall back on. Danger sense isn’t magical, so Asuna’s precog will stay, and she’ll still be able to see attacks coming

(I obviously don’t wanna make giant replies again, and I’m also super busy irl at the moment, so I’ll just keep it here if we want to slow down, i have a lot to say about everything else still tho, but I’ll address the more important ones later )

 

[Rayfire]

Where are the feats of healing cells and dna? If she hasn’t faced anything which directly affects those parts of the body and would require healing for those specifically (such as healing cells back because the old ones were irradiated, which would’ve been in her profile already seeing as radiation and such isn’t mentioned at all), it leads me to start thinking maybe you’re being untruthful about the limitations/real uses of healing magic, so once again clarification would be nice (or, even better, proven feats). Plus again if she wants any hope of actually attacking constant healing magic uses are out the window.

Well, healing magic can literally recover lost body parts and organs back to their normal form, which would be not only healing cells, but creating them, good as new, especially if they are the exact same as before, unlike some instances of regeneration were the new body part is kind of out of place, at least at first (Like how Boros demonstrated his regen to Saitama). Maybe there’s something wrong with that logic, but I’m not trying to be untruthful intentionally

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

I’ll also keep this one short

I guess the being not a fighter at heart thing is fair, But Why does she need to discover more of her potential if she’s already awakened and discovered her potential when she fought Marx? Lol. I did say it makes sense for her to improvise really well given her intelligence, But this obviously isn’t cobalt at her absolute best, since max aura is restricted, so that’s why i don’t think Asuna would be left in the dust completely in terms of gaining new powers and skills. It’s an extraordinary genius with limited resources VS a genius with any resource they can think of type of shebang. Cobalt can make new powers that are at least somewhat derived from her skillset, whilst Asuna is really only limited by her knowledge and skill. Which is why I brought up she could probably copy some of cobalts’ moves, so she’s kind of leeching off of cobalts’ superior intelligence a bit in that regard, and before you say anything, i said SOME.

When did I say that she had discovered ALL of her potential when fighting Marx? Look at the tier difference between Cobalt and Blast and tell me that she’s awakened everything possible. Plus again there won’t be any copying of Cobalt’s moves, I said that all Asuna can hope for is recreating a similar thing with her own powers. Again, Asuna does not have Cobalt’s DNA. No DNA, no copying powers. Even the supposed ‘simple’ ones like plutonium hand.

Plus the only thing not having max aura does is prevent her from using her full power. Not really a very large limitation when you think about it given all of her other attributes outside of speed and such are equal to her max aura keys and it isn’t a requirement for powerful new moves.

I wasn’t trying to imply that Asuna can just make something that can auto-counter everything and stomp, and yeah, i would say it’s similair to cobalt, since Asuna has only really made fairly simple things from power creation or just outright copy things and make them better (Like with Shizu’s turbocharge) which is why i kinda brought the same thing up for any of cobalts’ moves that Asuna could recreate at a glance, like plutonium hand.

Fair enough. But she’s only doing that if she’s using gravity magic or something. No DNA = no direct copy.

I said “May” and “Potentially” for a reason, lol, but after remembering various things (XP system, skill, focus requirement, Asuna’s relative inexperience, etc.) i will say that that idea is kinda dumb, lol. Not that it’s gonna be impossible in the future though

Well I did figure that bakuhatsu was gonna go in a direction like that eventually (should be fun to see ), but for this fight I don’t see it happening

That said, it’s still certainly not impossible for Asuna to adapt on skills and make them in her current version, like with turbocharge for example. Asuna could probably pull off something similair with Cobalts’ Plutonium hand or chains, since they are something that Asuna could definitely understand and reverse-engineer, even if it’s not exactly the same.

I’m not sure we’re clear on this with each other exactly. Even if she had Cobalt’s DNA, she would still need to understand her specific energy and knowledge of the DNA itself is sort of required for that. She doesn’t have information analysis capable of giving her the necessary information to reverse engineer Cobalt’s powers. Once again she’ll have to do it with powers she already currently has. And I don’t feel need to repeat the thing about the DNA anymore since I did it twice on this reply already.

And What makes you think that? I think cobalt could definitely know when she’s gone back in time like our boy sans does to frisk in undertale, but at the same time, what can she do about it if Asuna can see all of her attacks coming? How would she even stop her from going back in time? lol. She does have an ability that can nullify any magical abilities (can’t remember the name) but it only works for 4 seconds. That’s a very tiny period of time to plan something and execute it, even for someone as smart as cobalt. Even without her magic, Asuna would still have plenty of things to fall back on. Danger sense isn’t magical, so Asuna’s precog will stay, and she’ll still be able to see attacks coming

I mean the part you were quoting of my last reply here pretty much is exactly what makes me think that. The two are similarly skilled and adaptive already, Cobalt is also way smarter. She’ll definitely be able to figure out Asuna’s timing akin to goku figuring out time skip (though she won’t be hitting Asuna as soon as playback ends, I mean this more like anticipating her moves in general) and she’ll be able to formulate strategies around that.

The technique you’re referring to is Plutonium Domain, which yes could be pivotal to a winning strategy. Keep in mind that at massively hypersonic+ speeds, 4 seconds can feel like a very long time, especially at the speed and capacity that cobalt can think at. That’s more than enough time to come up with whole plans (plural). This is another reason why I’m of the firm belief that cobalt will catch Asuna and win eventually. Plutonium domain can extend the cooldown of moves like Playback long enough for her to make things happen.

Well, healing magic can literally recover lost body parts and organs back to their normal form, which would be not only healing cells, but creating them, good as new, especially if they are the exact same as before, unlike some instances of regeneration were the new body part is kind of out of place, at least at first (Like how Boros demonstrated his regen to Saitama). Maybe there’s something wrong with that logic, but I’m not trying to be untruthful intentionally

Fair enough but this does make it the same for everyone who regenerates doesn’t it (maybe this is just a default effect of regen for all characters)? Plus radiation isn’t just able to get into injured parts, it covers the entire body. She’ll have to be spamming it for the duration of the battle and I’m sure it would get very distracting eventually. If she only heals specific parts radiation will just immediately spread into them again.

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

My next reply will be a different format to attempt to cut down on the massive back and forth here, it shouldn't take 90 minutes to type up responses to vs threads not that this hasn't been endearing

Now as for what I was alluding to here, I'm going to copy down a little list here that helped decide the outcome of Cinner vs Ako.

AP: Cobalt (via digging into her power she can fight a 6-C like Boss Mode Marx)
LS: About equal (Asuna does have a 'likely Class T' ranking but this is unclear)
Speed: Cobalt (Asuna at first, but Cobalt can close and surpass it)
Durability: About equal, both have a barrier the other can't bypass as well
IQ: Cobalt (Extraordinary genius is far beyond regular Genius, Cobalt surpasses another extraordinary genius in Marx Gemini in general and in battle IQ))
Battle IQ: Cobalt (her BIQ surpasses Marx's)
Skill: About equal (proven throughout this argument)
Experience: About equal (Both inexperienced with their powers)
Offense: Cobalt
Senses: Asuna (Danger Sense surpasses Cobalt's extrasensory)
Planning: Cobalt (Cobalt will be coming up with multiple highly complex strategies quickly over the duration of the battle)
Defense: Asuna
Pure Hax: Asuna (mainly on the defensive end)
Agility: About equal (Both shown dodging extreme danmaku)
Regen: About equal (healing magic/reverse dissipation help)
Range: About equal (Discounting hyperspace gates and riftways)
Stamina: Asuna (Although Cobalt's isn't something to underestimate)
Endurance: About equal (Although Asuna can survive normally fatal injuries, Cobalt can't really perish unless her core is destroyed, meaning that she can survive far more fatal damages, although would have an extremely hard time recovering. reverse Dissipation lets Cobalt survive similar injuries)

If I were to divide this all into a points game, where the stat where Asuna or Cobalt lead is equal to one point (stats they are considered equal in is worth a point for both), we can get a clearer picture.

The score here would add up to this
Cobalt: 14
Asuna: 12

According to this, Cobalt has the overall advantage in the fight exactly as I've been arguing.

 

[Rayfire]

( ^ I guess starting from here would be good if we want to stop throwing gigantic responses at each other, especially when me and you have plot to write, lol)

I don’t think a point system is exactly a good way to decide a fight, especially when i don’t think we’ve covered everything yet. Some advantages will be more important than another too, after all. Who needs defense when you have more AP, for example? Once again I’ll do my best to keep everything short.

AP: Cobalt (via digging into her power she can fight a 6-C like Boss Mode Marx)

I’m… very sure she’s listed as 7-A to High 7-A. And in no key of hers, especially the ones we’re using, is she 6-C specifically. In fact, I’ve put cobalt as baseline of both tiers physically and powered up here in the “Stats” section in the OG post, unless there’s some calcs I’ve haven’t seen that puts her at a specific value. A fully adapted Asuna would theoretically be 1.7 Gigatons (High 7-A) as per my current WoG estimates, which would put her higher in this case. (She isn’t High 7-A cause there isn’t a canon value yet for pushing beyond your limits through willpower yet)

Offense: Cobalt

Maybe I’m forgetting something from earlier, but Asuna also has plenty of offensive options too in short.

LS: About equal (Asuna does have a 'likely Class T' ranking but this is unclear)

Class T is for lifting mountains, and Asuna can control attacks that can level mountains, therefore fall into the same tier (I got an idea for how i can make this an exact value in a calc if that’s okay with you?)

Everything else seems about fair, at least for now, but once again i don’t think mere points should decide a winner cause of the above logic.

 

[Rayfire]

Here we are again. Worth mentioning that Cobalt's dimensional travel portals had to be nearly nerfed in the co-op tourney we did in the past (against other haxed 6-B characters), combined with a little remembering it becomes one of her main features without a doubt.

I think i only mentioned Riftways for getting out of plutonium bend, not escaping hypergates since it specifically says universal travel can’t get you out of it, lol, but Asuna can just reverse time to stop that from, y’know, ever happening.

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

I don’t think a point system is exactly a good way to decide a fight, especially when i don’t think we’ve covered everything yet. Some advantages will be more important than another too, after all. Who needs defense when you have more AP, for example? Once again I’ll do my best to keep everything short.

I’m… very sure she’s listed as 7-A to High 7-A. And in no key of hers, especially the ones we’re using, is she 6-C specifically. In fact, I’ve put cobalt as baseline of both tiers physically and powered up here in the “Stats” section in the OG post, unless there’s some calcs I’ve haven’t seen that puts her at a specific value. A fully adapted Asuna would theoretically be 1.7 Gigatons (High 7-A) as per my current WoG estimates, which would put her higher in this case. (She isn’t High 7-A cause there isn’t a canon value yet for pushing beyond your limits through willpower yet)

Maybe I’m forgetting something from earlier, but Asuna also has plenty of offensive options too in short.

Class T is for lifting mountains, and Asuna can control attacks that can level mountains, therefore fall into the same tier (I got an idea for how i can make this an exact value in a calc if that’s okay with you?)

Everything else seems about fair, at least for now, but once again i don’t think mere points should decide a winner cause of the above logic.

The point system is further proof that cobalt has the overall advantage, it’s simply more evidence stacked on top of my overall argument as to why she wins.

Well V. Verse has her clearly standing up to 6-C Boss Mode Marx and even winning prior to even discovering max aura. There’s a spectrum between being powered up and the 6-B of Max Aura which Cobalt does indeed have access too given enough time to unlock it. In a battle like this she is virtually guaranteed to do it.

Her offense in this case is hindered by cobalt being far smarter and therefore being capable of using her offensive options far more efficently. Plus I’ve said before that she can use higher level abilities to a lesser extent.

If you wanna make that argument, Cobalt is Class T too. She can also control attacks able to level mountains.

I think i only mentioned Riftways for getting out of plutonium bend, not escaping hypergates since it specifically says universal travel can’t get you out of it, lol, but Asuna can just reverse time to stop that from, y’know, ever happening.

Hyperspace gates are still a very valuable defensive option for cobalt.

 

[Javenplayz253]

standing up to 6-C Boss Mode Marx

He couldn't beat Scarlet heheha

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

He couldn't beat Scarlet heheha

And? What does that bring to the table

 

[Javenplayz253]

And? What does that bring to the table

Idk ‍
Uhhh idk who I'm voting heheha

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

Idk ‍
Uhhh idk who I'm voting heheha

Well it isn’t voting time yet but cobalt has the advantage

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

I think i only mentioned Riftways for getting out of plutonium bend, not escaping hypergates since it specifically says universal travel can’t get you out of it, lol, but Asuna can just reverse time to stop that from, y’know, ever happening.

Froggy is right, her portals had to be nerfed since she could very easily send someone to plutonium hyperspace. In this key, that’s obviously harder for her to do in general but playback let’s Asuna recover as you said

 

[Rayfire]

Well V. Verse has her clearly standing up to 6-C Boss Mode Marx and even winning prior to even discovering max aura. There’s a spectrum between being powered up and the 6-B of Max Aura which Cobalt does indeed have access too given enough time to unlock it. In a battle like this she is virtually guaranteed to do it.

Then why isn’t she 6-C then if she beat and harm a 6-C character as a tier 7 Marx’s profile literally says Gigaton punch mode is equal to awakened cobalt lol, if she really is 6-C and can fight Boss Mode Marx then this might be a stomp since Marx is 70 frickin Gigatons according to his profile

Max aura is also restricted as I’ve mentioned earlier, so she can only really make “mini” versions of the moves she gets with that according to you, which is also why i was giving an “extraordinary genius with limited resources VS genius with any resource they can think of” analogy, which is why i was saying Asuna isn’t completely screwed in that regard. Capability & influence matters just as much as intelligence in a battle of wits.

Her offense in this case is hindered by cobalt being far smarter and therefore being capable of using her offensive options far more efficently. Plus I’ve said before that she can use higher level abilities to a lesser extent.

Cobalt can strategise better, yeah, but that doesn’t automatically mean Asuna can’t attack either. Cobalt can’t strategise against moves that she doesn’t yet know about/can’t plan for in time considering Asuna’s speed amps and the fact that Asuna won’t use everything all at once.

And especially in a fight, cobalt would still have to take some risks, there’s no real perfect strategy if cobalt can’t immediately win (in which case wouldn’t this just be a stomp?) which is exactly what fortune for example could capatalize on. If Asuna gets an opportunity, or see’s that cobalt is trying to execute some plan she doesn’t know about, she can trip her up and get an opening with that. Cobalt can be smart, but brains can’t win a game of luck (Unless you’re the protagonist, of course!)

If you wanna make that argument, Cobalt is Class T too. She can also control attacks able to level mountains.

In the form of a massive blast she fires directly from her body and has to maintain control and stability of like Asuna?

Hyperspace gates are still a very valuable defensive option for cobalt.

They are something that nullify could work against, so hyperspace gates won’t be a go-to Defense option the entire time, and besides, cobalt has to attack at some point.

 

[Rayfire]

Also gotta go cause school revision time (And also if i wanna stay as above average intelligence )

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

Then why isn’t she 6-C then if she beat and harm a 6-C character as a tier 7 Marx’s profile literally says Gigaton punch mode is equal to awakened cobalt lol, if she really is 6-C and can fight Boss Mode Marx then this might be a stomp since Marx is 70 frickin Gigatons according to his profile

You can’t possibly be suggesting a stomp after all of this she doesn’t start at this, plus you still seem pretty sure of Asuna’s ability to win. I think this match is extremely close even if cobalt does reach the level where she beat Marx. Boss Mode is a combo of all of Marx’s modes including Gigaton Punch, and it is true that cobalt fought boss mode Marx and pretty much beat him, but it wasn’t enough raw AP or stats in general. Like with Asuna here, cobalt won through superior intellect, planning, adaptability, etc, though her awakened power did close the stat gap significantly eventually, Marx isn’t as versatile as Asuna and doesn’t have the same senses/defense which would do well to survive a higher tier opponent. Plus again she doesn’t reach this level until she fights for a while. In the context of a vs match this cobalt can’t be long removed from beating Marx so it can be said that logically she can’t just jump up to it either. There’s plenty of openings in the fight before she would get that high, and Asuna has her own reactive to keep up anyway and you’ve touted her own adaptability too. Also just FYI Cobalt’s shield can block those 70 gigaton attacks before her power grew, so it’s durability isn’t based on cobalt growing.

Max aura is also restricted as I’ve mentioned earlier, so she can only really make “mini” versions of the moves she gets with that according to you, which is also why i was giving an “extraordinary genius with limited resources VS genius with any resource they can think of” analogy, which is why i was saying Asuna isn’t completely screwed in that regard. Capability & influence matters just as much as intelligence in a battle of wits.

Not sure what you mean by influence but Cobalt clearly has the capability too. At this level of intelligence even ‘limited resources’ are still equivalent to an abundance of resources for someone of lesser intellect. Asuna probably still has more, but still, cobalt can make the best of a horrible matchup. Keep in mind that Marx had a suit which could literally absorb every single energy move she used (in case you haven’t noticed pretty much every move she has is energy). In the end, cobalt still wins. This alone should be more than enough proof of the ‘capability’ here.

Cobalt can strategise better, yeah, but that doesn’t automatically mean Asuna can’t attack either. Cobalt can’t strategise against moves that she doesn’t yet know about/can’t plan for in time considering Asuna’s speed amps and the fact that Asuna won’t use everything all at once.

Same with Asuna, she doesn’t know anything of what cobalt can do at first. Danger sense doesn’t show her exactly what will happen/the information behind attacks about to happen, only how to dodge. This will not help her with offense or strategizing with offense even in the later portions. The speed amplifications have already been talked about, and I’ve proven that cobalt can and eventually will surpass her speed even if turbocharge is perpetually active because she did it to Rocket Mode Marx and later with Boss Mode too.

And especially in a fight, cobalt would still have to take some risks, there’s no real perfect strategy if cobalt can’t immediately win (in which case wouldn’t this just be a stomp?) which is exactly what fortune for example could capatalize on. If Asuna gets an opportunity, or see’s that cobalt is trying to execute some plan she doesn’t know about, she can trip her up and get an opening with that. Cobalt can be smart, but brains can’t win a game of luck (Unless you’re the protagonist, of course!)

Again, same with Asuna, Cobalt clearly isn’t going to be beat without Asuna suffering damage. Fortune won’t be able to cause anything directly leading to Cobalt’s defeat and she has the methods to defend spontaneously if necessary. Cobalt can also pivot between the various strategies she comes up with. Danger sense won’t detect her nearly as well without that killing intent, right? Plus cobalt can end up being the lucky one too.

In the form of a massive blast she fires directly from her body and has to maintain control and stability of like Asuna?

If this is the case Asuna needs that likely part either totally removed, or just have it say ‘Class T with attack name’. Since her base LS is Class G it’s plausible that only with this attack is she Class T since you don’t list it as an absolute. But as the stat itself this isn’t a close range battle at all so it will hardly be of importance, and Cobalt can destroy massive blasts like that with her energy considering she can destroy mountains via AP.

As for the LS aspect itself no Cobalt won’t be doing that.

They are something that nullify could work against, so hyperspace gates won’t be a go-to Defense option the entire time, and besides, cobalt has to attack at some point.

After thinking about this, Conalt actually WOULD be attacking this entire time. Cobalt can summon gates around her and Asuna. Attacks Asuna uses will be directly transferred through the gates straight onto Asuna, so she will be damaged by her own attacks repeatedly this way (and especially useful vs danmaku). With great timing combined with her smarts Cobalt can spawn the portals at nigh perfect points to force her attacks to go through before she has time to move them or whatever. This brings up a question, would danger sense detect her own attacks? Asuna obviously has no killing intent or ill intent at all towards herself. Perhaps she detects that portals will occur, but then what? Cobalt won’t be caught off guard very often if at all (extrasensory helps a lot). It really cuts down on her offensive methods. Cobalts extrasensory perception allows for her to detect attacks before they come at her, which means she’s gonna be very well prepared to carry out the hyperspace gate defense plan. Of course this goes on top of her other previously mentioned ways to defend.

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

You can’t possibly be suggesting a stomp after all of this she doesn’t start at this, plus you still seem pretty sure of Asuna’s ability to win. I think this match is extremely close even if cobalt does reach the level where she beat Marx. Boss Mode is a combo of all of Marx’s modes including Gigaton Punch, and it is true that cobalt fought boss mode Marx and pretty much beat him, but it wasn’t enough raw AP or stats in general. Like with Asuna here, cobalt won through superior intellect, planning, adaptability, etc, though her awakened power did close the stat gap significantly eventually, Marx isn’t as versatile as Asuna and doesn’t have the same senses/defense which would do well to survive a higher tier opponent. Plus again she doesn’t reach this level until she fights for a while. In the context of a vs match this cobalt can’t be long removed from beating Marx so it can be said that logically she can’t just jump up to it either. There’s plenty of openings in the fight before she would get that high, and Asuna has her own reactive to keep up anyway and you’ve touted her own adaptability too. Also just FYI Cobalt’s shield can block those 70 gigaton attacks before her power grew, so it’s durability isn’t based on cobalt growing.

Not sure what you mean by influence but Cobalt clearly has the capability too. At this level of intelligence even ‘limited resources’ are still equivalent to an abundance of resources for someone of lesser intellect. Asuna probably still has more, but still, cobalt can make the best of a horrible matchup. Keep in mind that Marx had a suit which could literally absorb every single energy move she used (in case you haven’t noticed pretty much every move she has is energy). In the end, cobalt still wins. This alone should be more than enough proof of the ‘capability’ here.

Same with Asuna, she doesn’t know anything of what cobalt can do at first. Danger sense doesn’t show her exactly what will happen/the information behind attacks about to happen, only how to dodge. This will not help her with offense or strategizing with offense even in the later portions. The speed amplifications have already been talked about, and I’ve proven that cobalt can and eventually will surpass her speed even if turbocharge is perpetually active because she did it to Rocket Mode Marx and later with Boss Mode too.

Again, same with Asuna, Cobalt clearly isn’t going to be beat without Asuna suffering damage. Fortune won’t be able to cause anything directly leading to Cobalt’s defeat and she has the methods to defend spontaneously if necessary. Cobalt can also pivot between the various strategies she comes up with. Danger sense won’t detect her nearly as well without that killing intent, right? Plus cobalt can end up being the lucky one too.

If this is the case Asuna needs that likely part either totally removed, or just have it say ‘Class T with attack name’. Since her base LS is Class G it’s plausible that only with this attack is she Class T since you don’t list it as an absolute. But as the stat itself this isn’t a close range battle at all so it will hardly be of importance, and Cobalt can destroy massive blasts like that with her energy considering she can destroy mountains via AP.

As for the LS aspect itself no Cobalt won’t be doing that.

After thinking about this, Conalt actually WOULD be attacking this entire time. Cobalt can summon gates around her and Asuna. Attacks Asuna uses will be directly transferred through the gates straight onto Asuna, so she will be damaged by her own attacks repeatedly this way (and especially useful vs danmaku). With great timing combined with her smarts Cobalt can spawn the portals at nigh perfect points to force her attacks to go through before she has time to move them or whatever. This brings up a question, would danger sense detect her own attacks? Asuna obviously has no killing intent or ill intent at all towards herself. Perhaps she detects that portals will occur, but then what? Cobalt won’t be caught off guard very often if at all (extrasensory helps a lot). It really cuts down on her offensive methods. Cobalts extrasensory perception allows for her to detect attacks before they come at her, which means she’s gonna be very well prepared to carry out the hyperspace gate defense plan. Of course this goes on top of her other previously mentioned ways to defend.

Just realized this is dragging us back to large replies again Can we just not avoid it lol? Surely there’s a way to calm the fight down and have faster and smaller answers

 

[Rayfire]

Just realized this is dragging us back to large replies again Can we just not avoid it lol? Surely there’s a way to calm the fight down and have faster and smaller answers

I’ll try to keep it small once i get around to replying to this lol

 

[Rayfire]

You can’t possibly be suggesting a stomp after all of this she doesn’t start at this, plus you still seem pretty sure of Asuna’s ability to win. I think this match is extremely close even if cobalt does reach the level where she beat Marx. Boss Mode is a combo of all of Marx’s modes including Gigaton Punch, and it is true that cobalt fought boss mode Marx and pretty much beat him, but it wasn’t enough raw AP or stats in general. Like with Asuna here, cobalt won through superior intellect, planning, adaptability, etc, though her awakened power did close the stat gap significantly eventually, Marx isn’t as versatile as Asuna and doesn’t have the same senses/defense which would do well to survive a higher tier opponent. Plus again she doesn’t reach this level until she fights for a while. In the context of a vs match this cobalt can’t be long removed from beating Marx so it can be said that logically she can’t just jump up to it either. There’s plenty of openings in the fight before she would get that high, and Asuna has her own reactive to keep up anyway and you’ve touted her own adaptability too. Also just FYI Cobalt’s shield can block those 70 gigaton attacks before her power grew, so it’s durability isn’t based on cobalt growing.

I see. Yeah, ik, i was just very confused. 70 Gigatons is just a HUGE ap difference between them which gave me the idea that cobalt would just tank most of Asuna’s attacks. How did she even beat Marx though if she isn’t the same tier as him? Did she BFR him or sumthin? You’ve made mistakes on profiles before so i thought that in actuality cobalt was 6-C. Even still, Asuna won’t have an AP gap that large to adapt to in the first place, so eventually both of them will kinda just be stuck.

Not sure what you mean by influence but Cobalt clearly has the capability too. At this level of intelligence even ‘limited resources’ are still equivalent to an abundance of resources for someone of lesser intellect. Asuna probably still has more, but still, cobalt can make the best of a horrible matchup. Keep in mind that Marx had a suit which could literally absorb every single energy move she used (in case you haven’t noticed pretty much every move she has is energy). In the end, cobalt still wins. This alone should be more than enough proof of the ‘capability’ here.

I was using it as an analogy, lol. I still haven’t been told how cobalt won, exactly. How’d she get around the suit, anyway? I find it way easier to believe she just exploited Marx babyraging and waited until his suit ran out of juice, which is still good strategy, but that wouldn’t make it quite the same.

Same with Asuna, she doesn’t know anything of what cobalt can do at first. Danger sense doesn’t show her exactly what will happen/the information behind attacks about to happen, only how to dodge. This will not help her with offense or strategizing with offense even in the later portions. The speed amplifications have already been talked about, and I’ve proven that cobalt can and eventually will surpass her speed even if turbocharge is perpetually active because she did it to Rocket Mode Marx and later with Boss Mode too.

Yeah, but apparently that takes time, and it was made clear that she was overwhelmed, at least, at first. Which could give Asuna an opportunity to deal damage early on in the fight, and again if she activates supercharge. Even if neither of those work, Asuna’s RE will ensure that she doesn’t fall behind in speed.

Again, same with Asuna, Cobalt clearly isn’t going to be beat without Asuna suffering damage. Fortune won’t be able to cause anything directly leading to Cobalt’s defeat and she has the methods to defend spontaneously if necessary. Cobalt can also pivot between the various strategies she comes up with. Danger sense won’t detect her nearly as well without that killing intent, right? Plus cobalt can end up being the lucky one too.

Yeah, but it’s more likely that Asuna is the one who gets her way (It’s a 75% chance) in this case. And what makes you think that cobalt can just not want to harm her at all so that danger sense doesn’t pick it up? That just means cobalt wouldn’t wanna fight anymore and then Asuna will win This is barred by VS thread rules tho. Fortune can’t suddenly cause cobalts core to shut down for no reason or sumthin like that, duh, but even if cobalt can defend, Asuna can still use it to help stop her from executing any strategy she can come up with, which basically means her brains are wasted.

If this is the case Asuna needs that likely part either totally removed, or just have it say ‘Class T with attack name’. Since her base LS is Class G it’s plausible that only with this attack is she Class T since you don’t list it as an absolute. But as the stat itself this isn’t a close range battle at all so it will hardly be of importance, and Cobalt can destroy massive blasts like that with her energy considering she can destroy mountains via AP.

As for the LS aspect itself no Cobalt won’t be doing that.

Then why is it on the point thing then not that i want it off, but still lol. and her controlling said attacks basically IS her base LS. It’s not like she uses powerups to control it. That’s why it’s not “Class G with dadada”

Asuna can do basically the same thing. It’s not like they have different AP’s.

As for the LS section, i ended up doing the calc just a short while ago, and, uh… You might wanna check this out wiz (Asuna takes LS point no contest)

After thinking about this, Conalt actually WOULD be attacking this entire time. Cobalt can summon gates around her and Asuna. Attacks Asuna uses will be directly transferred through the gates straight onto Asuna, so she will be damaged by her own attacks repeatedly this way (and especially useful vs danmaku). With great timing combined with her smarts Cobalt can spawn the portals at nigh perfect points to force her attacks to go through before she has time to move them or whatever. This brings up a question, would danger sense detect her own attacks? Asuna obviously has no killing intent or ill intent at all towards herself. Perhaps she detects that portals will occur, but then what? Cobalt won’t be caught off guard very often if at all (extrasensory helps a lot). It really cuts down on her offensive methods. Cobalts extrasensory perception allows for her to detect attacks before they come at her, which means she’s gonna be very well prepared to carry out the hyperspace gate defense plan. Of course this goes on top of her other previously mentioned ways to defend.

You’re forgetting about nullify and absolute defense But asuna wouldn’t need to use those, anyway. You’re acting like she’s dumb enough to just fall into said trap. Cobalt is an extraordinary genius, but it doesn’t automatically mean Asuna would fall for everything cobalt would try, especially with literal precognition on her side.

I don’t think Asuna could pick up her own attacks (duh) but she can most certainly parry them into another direction and let them get reflected everywhere. Which, if perfectly timed with a good use of fortune, would cause it to most likely hit cobalt instead, once again meaning her brains are wasted, which is another example of why Asuna won’t be completely lacking in terms of strategy even if she’s way dumber. Asuna has more hax as you’ve said yourself on the point thing above ^ and Asuna has things like these to help her execute any strategies of her own. Cobalt will always be much smarter here, but Asuna also had more to work with. Which is kind of why I’m trying to say that it isn’t the end of Asuna just because cobalt is much smarter. Asuna will have opportunities to do things like these of her own.

Extrasensory perception will help, but Asuna’s danger sense is way better as you’ve said in the points thing you came up with, since it’s literally an instinctual thing jammed into her brain from a decade and a half of torment, not relying on any tech stuff that won’t be reliable and accurate 100% of the time. Marxs’ technology isn’t perfect, otherwise he would have been able to solo the whole verse by now, lol

 

[Rayfire]

^ Phew, okay, that last bit is the only long part, but hopefully it’s overall comparatively shorter, at the very least I think you should also just remember that you’re not under any obligation to respond ASAP, either. This is supposed to be a fun thing, not a stressful thing

Experience: About equal (Both inexperienced with their powers)

I do happen to object this too, though. Experience won’t be all about powers as well. Asuna is inexperienced compared to her friends with using magic, sure, but Asuna already has an encyclopedic knowledge about how this sort of anime stuff will work (Hence why she’s getting the hang of it pretty quickly) So i think you could solidly say she should have the advantage due to technically already having some good knowledge on her power system, even if she’s never actually used it before. And to back this up, it brings me to my next point:

Asuna has also been in the suffering & depression business for wayyy longer (15 Years > 4 Years) and cobalt didn’t seem to really to get in a lot of fights up until she stood up to Marx, and didn’t seem to be in much danger of being killed, unlike Asuna, who got beat up on the regular, and still had the endurance and will to not die after a few weeks of this (If this happened to you irl you’d probably be hospitalised on day 1. Asuna handled it FOR YEARS), have hope, and not do not-so-nice things to herself despite being such a sad lil soul, and she’s done this her whole life, which is comparatively longer than cobalts.

How can you have more experience than someone who’s been doing the same thing as you for over three times as long as you’ve lived?

 

[Rayfire]

^ Take your time to respond to this as well if it feels long. Irl lives first

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

^ Take your time to respond to this as well if it feels long. Irl lives first

It may be a couple days before a proper response, I need to finish the V. Verse plot for tomorrow plus some family business on Saturday but there ought to be a full reply by Sunday for sure

 

[Froggytron]

Now as for what I was alluding to here, I'm going to copy down a little list here that helped decide the outcome of Cinner vs Ako.

AP: Cobalt (via digging into her power she can fight a 6-C like Boss Mode Marx)
LS: About equal (Asuna does have a 'likely Class T' ranking but this is unclear)
Speed: Cobalt (Asuna at first, but Cobalt can close and surpass it)
Durability: About equal, both have a barrier the other can't bypass as well
IQ: Cobalt (Extraordinary genius is far beyond regular Genius, Cobalt surpasses another extraordinary genius in Marx Gemini in general and in battle IQ))
Battle IQ: Cobalt (her BIQ surpasses Marx's)
Skill: About equal (proven throughout this argument)
Experience: About equal (Both inexperienced with their powers)
Offense: Cobalt
Senses: Asuna (Danger Sense surpasses Cobalt's extrasensory)
Planning: Cobalt (Cobalt will be coming up with multiple highly complex strategies quickly over the duration of the battle)
Defense: Asuna
Pure Hax: Asuna (mainly on the defensive end)
Agility: About equal (Both shown dodging extreme danmaku)
Regen: About equal (healing magic/reverse dissipation help)
Range: About equal (Discounting hyperspace gates and riftways)
Stamina: Asuna (Although Cobalt's isn't something to underestimate)
Endurance: About equal (Although Asuna can survive normally fatal injuries, Cobalt can't really perish unless her core is destroyed, meaning that she can survive far more fatal damages, although would have an extremely hard time recovering. reverse Dissipation lets Cobalt survive similar injuries)

If I were to divide this all into a points game, where the stat where Asuna or Cobalt lead is equal to one point (stats they are considered equal in is worth a point for both), we can get a clearer picture.

The score here would add up to this
Cobalt: 14
Asuna: 12

According to this, Cobalt has the overall advantage in the fight exactly as I've been arguing.

I take these comparisons as important in fights, Im kind of suspicious about Asuna leading in defensive hax as nothing similar to absolute defense abilities was brought up in Spagm vs Asuna, and there really were reasons for it.

So far leaning Cobalt, she has both radiation and IQ as Spagm but superior portals to Asuna as well to deal with her unbalanced rift-way spamming

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

I take these comparisons as important in fights, Im kind of suspicious about Asuna leading in defensive hax as nothing similar to absolute defense abilities was brought up in Spagm vs Asuna, and there really were reasons for it.

So far leaning Cobalt, she has both radiation and IQ as Spagm but superior portals to Asuna as well to deal with her unbalanced rift-way spamming

Cobalt also has an immense lead in capability to plan and general intellect, as well as a similar overall skill level giving her the advantage. There are very long reasons I could list for as to why I’m also leaning cobalt but I don’t have the time for that (plus I’ve mostly said them above already)

 

[MintyBoi1]

It sounds like I’m leaning Cobalt too with her abilities and superior intelligence

 

[Rayfire]

I take these comparisons as important in fights, Im kind of suspicious about Asuna leading in defensive hax as nothing similar to absolute defense abilities was brought up in Spagm vs Asuna, and there really were reasons for it.

I didn’t regard things like absolute defense as important since Asuna had numerous ways to get through the red circles, anyway. Spagm can’t really put Asuna into a defensive position especially if she can escape to a new angle at any time with a riftway, already knows how to deal with many projectiles coming at her (red circles, in this case) can always remain faster, and can literally turn them off at any time if need be with nullify if she found herself stuck (Or the digi-shild too if that was a problem despite everything else Asuna could do against that), no absolute defense required that’s why it wasn’t brought up by me. It would have been unnecessary for asuna, especially if she’s the only one who can land hits feasibly even if it’s not much (Hence why she advanced), especially considering its flaws.

I think venefica means ‘defensive hax’ as in, general hax for defense, like regeneration as well, for example. Asuna’s regen doesn’t rely on some sort of core like cobalts’ does, and it’s also a lot faster when it comes to massive injuries (Which is also useful against the radiation, since it can, y’know, literally regenerate lost cells going by the nature of regen itself) which would be annoying for Asuna if she has to constantly use it, but nothing that would hinder her massively. Asuna has more than enough endurance to deal with the pain of it too.

Even if it’s not fast enough, Asuna can always get space with a riftway, heal, and come back 2 seconds later. Who says you can’t gain distance in a VS matchup? Reversing the damage with playback is also an option.

^ Sorry if that was long, lol, but i just think you missed some stuff here

 

[Javenplayz253]

I'm kinda betting Javen's mom rn (Funni inside joke) but let's see if my girl asuna has something yeye

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

Even if it’s not fast enough, Asuna can always get space with a riftway, heal, and come back 2 seconds later. Who says you can’t gain distance in a VS matchup? Reversing the damage with playback is also an option.

Cobalt can do the same exact thing minus playback, although still not sure if it’s in character for Asuna to run away even if it’s just to heal real fast and then come back

 

[Rayfire]

Asuna should also take that LS point since this is a thing now too

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

I'm kinda betting Javen's mom rn (Funni inside joke) but let's see if my girl asuna has something yeye

Inside joke I don’t remember anything like this

 

[MintyBoi1]

I haven’t been watching all the way, but what ways does Asuna have to recover from radiation? Even healing shouldn’t really let her get past that unless she can make it so it doesn’t linger

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

I haven’t been watching all the way, but what ways does Asuna have to recover from radiation? Even healing shouldn’t really let her get past that unless she can make it so it doesn’t linger

Lingering is the biggest thing the radiation would be doing in this fight since healing magic appears able to get rid of the immediate effects

 

[Javenplayz253]

Inside joke I don’t remember anything like this

It's funni because both have blue hair

 

[Rayfire]

I haven’t been watching all the way, but what ways does Asuna have to recover from radiation? Even healing shouldn’t really let her get past that unless she can make it so it doesn’t linger

Playback can reverse the damage, and i believe venefica said himself earlier that willpower + healing magic would also help out. The lingering effect also wouldn’t occur right away (Cobalt needs to attack a bunch before it spreads enough, but even then, their fighting in a frickin city, so there’s a lot of space to cover with radiation) Asuna also has crazy endurance, so the pain of it won’t affect her much either, so it’d take a while for it to even kill her, and that’s ignoring how Asuna can at the very least halt it with healing. (Regenerating limbs means you are also creating/recovering cells, which radiation does the opposite of)

 

[MintyBoi1]

Asuna should also take that LS point since this is a thing now too

I don’t think you can just add that in the middle of a match, it should fall under adding new abilities. Also now I’m wondering about the Class T justification. There’s no calc for Asuna’s Class G and Class T is hundreds of times above baseline. It’d really affect this match where exactly it stands in LS it seems.

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

Playback can reverse the damage, and i believe venefica said himself earlier that willpower + healing magic would also help out. The lingering effect also wouldn’t occur right away (Cobalt needs to attack a bunch before it spreads enough, but even then, their fighting in a frickin city, so there’s a lot of space to cover with radiation) Asuna also has crazy endurance, so the pain of it won’t affect her much either, so it’d take a while for it to even kill her, and that’s ignoring how Asuna can at the very least halt it with healing. (Regenerating limbs means you are also creating/recovering cells, which radiation does the opposite of)

Radiation doesn’t inflict straight on pain btw, it’s more of a poisonous sickening pain. I’m not sure if Asuna has dealt with anything like it. Her willpower may not help as much for that as normal, and it’ll be across the whole body. Simply being around radiation can infect you. No contact on cobalt’s part is actually necessary