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Stranger Things Season 4 Revisions

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Wdinatx said:
I barely remember what I saw of the first three seasons so I was hoping someone else would answer but I'll go.

I'm thinking that Nina only made it easier to harness the "love" that beat One in the past. Not strengthening her outright but pointing out a well of strength. Does that make sense?
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I believe so

The more I have thought about it, the more unnecessary 2 keys for Eleven is, as really the only thing that got much of an improvement is her LS, but you could argue that El has been Class 10 the whole time due to her pulling that train car. Other than that, her AP is still in the "At Least Building Level+" range, and she doesn't gain much (if any) new abilities
 
I thought more about the ICBM statement, and it is 100% an outlier.

Just saying that she is more dangerous than an ICBM doesn't mean that she scales to it in AP. He could be saying that she is more dangerous than an ICBM because she can open portals to other worlds. If I knew someone who can open portals to other realms full of extremly dangerous monsters and send people into that other realm, I would consider that person pretty damn dangerous, even if they could barely hurt a fly in terms of AP.

Aside from that, El has not really shown any feats that come close to an ICBM's level of destruction. She struggled fighting against the Mind Flayer's Proxy, who is baseline Building Level at best. She had trouble throwing Billy through a Wall. Her freaking out at Hopper only caused some windows to break. She struggled to break down a metal door. She struggled to kill Dr Brenner during their confrontation. Yes, she was weakened due to the sedative, but if she really was as powerful as a ******* ICBM missile, it should have taken her no effort to kill him, even when weakened. She struggled to turn the Demogorgon to dust. It took her a solid couple of seconds to kill a demodog. If she was as powerful as a missile, she should have been able to kill it instantly. A ******* nailed baseball bat can kill them in a few strikes, yet supposedly someone with the power of a missile still took several seconds to kill one? After regaining her powers, she only sent some guards flying up a few meters and some lights to spark. Simular feats have been calculated at Street Level.

Most of the feats I just listed fall within 9-C to 8-C territory, and most of these feats required her to use absolute full power to the point of where she passed out or were done during a state of extreme stress for her, when her powers would be at their most powerful. If it takes her genuine effort and requires her to be in a state of fight or flight to accomplish feats within the 9-C to 8-C range, how is her telekinisis suddenly scaling to a warhead not an outlier?

Her environmental destruction should still be High 7-C because that is environmental destruction that portals are capable of causing, not how much AP it takes Eleven to make portals or how powerful her telekinisis is. If Eleven and Vecna both already had Tier 7 telekinisis, why did Vecna need to use the portals to destroy Hawkings and not just find a way into the real world and destroy it himself with telekinesis?

Eleven and Vecna should still have "At Least Building Level+" telekinisis due to that being how much energy is required to open the portals and due to Eleven fighting off the mind flayer and it's proxy while at her full power, but the ICBM feat should almost certianly not scale. Unless if you want to argue that the Mind Flayer & its Proxy, The Flayed, Dr Brenner, Demogorgons, Demodogs, and the guards in the facility are all capable of tanking attacks from an ICBM missile.

From what I can tell, Eleven's telekinesis is about Wall Level - Small Building Level while holding back, At Least Building Level+ when panicked/bloodlusted, and Large Town Level+ via environmental destruciton with portals.

TL;DR: ICBM missile statement is an outlier and has pretty much no proof to back it up.
 
Wdinatx said:
Copying points from last one:

The fact that Steve had better luck testing apart the bat than with a club was because it’s so hard to get a clean hit against those kind of things things. When Steve first encountered them he got in a hit that barely did anything because of the lack of force going into something you’re hitting midair compared to hitting on (or at least into) the ground. This is why you can’t punch a mosquito to death and by extension is what makes Stirges (what Dustan would have called those bat things) so freaking annoying.

Robin figured out the music thing before Nancy and gave her some pointers in the Victor search (along with other things I don’t remember well) so think the two are peers. Also social influencing from the rousing speech to the scholar.

Nancy’s shotgun could harm Vecna, so finally a superhuman gun for her.

Hopper should get stamina feats from being able to work at that brutal prison, even with a purposefully dislocated ankle, and the (already mentioned) feat of defeating an adolescent Demogorgan using a sword. Also intelligence feats for many things he did, including escaping the prison and learning Russian there.

BFR for El because of sending One to the Upside-Down, improved Clairvoyance post-Nina for being able to watch her friends without a picture or a sensory deprivation tank, and [I don’t know what] for entering Max’s mind.

I want to think of feats for the kids but (besides what you said yourself) I don’t remember anything concrete.
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Also I just realized that El needs a key for when she banished Henry and that 009 should have a note that her comic isn’t canon to the main series.
 
How much staff needs to give the thumbs up on a CRT for us to be able to apply the changes? Last I remember, it was 2, so we just need 1 more staff member to give the ok
 
How much trouble would I get in for applying these changes with only 1 approval from staff? Hypothetically, of course. This verse is pretty small, and as far as I can tell, these changes aren't very contriversial because nobody's really debating on it anymore.
 
ThePrimalHunter said:
Eddie Munson

Eddie, the man I blame for ruining the Stranger Things Fandom. Eddie should probably have Street Level durability, as he survived an entire swarm of Demobats eating him until he eventually bled out due to his injuries. That's honestly all I have for him. Everything else looks fine.
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If their biting clearly worked, then why would he have street-level durability?
 
Golden_Void said:
If their biting clearly worked, then why would he have street-level durability?
Click to expand...
He survived pretty damn long after the bites, and he survived being rammed into by several of them. The demobats can easily break windows and damage wooden doors as well as knock Steve over, who can stay on his feet after Johnathan's Street Level Punches. Because he can survive getting rammed into by a Street Level character, that makes his durability Street Level. Eddie also got bit multiple times and was still alive for a while until he lost too much blood

I might be wrong, but I feel like Eddie being a Stone Wall makes sense
 
ThePrimalHunter said:
He survived pretty damn long after the bites, and he survived being rammed into by several of them. The demobats can easily break windows and damage wooden doors as well as knock Steve over, who can stay on his feet after Johnathan's Street Level Punches. Because he can survive getting rammed into by a Street Level character, that makes his durability Street Level. Eddie also got bit multiple times and was still alive for a while until he lost too much blood

I might be wrong, but I feel like Eddie being a Stone Wall makes sense
Click to expand...
Most likely, a swarm of bats is knocking him over, not a single one. Surviving something that is causing you damage is not an example of durability. If I shoot you nine times and you make it to the hospital and live, you aren't street level. Also, the surface area of a tooth is much smaller than that of a fist or an entire body, allowing it to cause more damage with less energy.
 
Golden_Void said:
Most likely, a swarm of bats is knocking him over, not a single one. Surviving something that is causing you damage is not an example of durability. If I shoot you nine times and you make it to the hospital and live, you aren't street level. Also, the surface area of a tooth is much smaller than that of a fist or an entire body, allowing it to cause more damage with less energy.
Click to expand...
Would you then recommend keeping the profile the way it is?
Also you are sevearly overestimating me by saying that I would survive getting shot 9 times
 
ThePrimalHunter said:
Would you then recommend keeping the profile the way it is?
Also you are sevearly overestimating me by saying that I would survive getting shot 9 times
Click to expand...
The point is that that’s a stamina feat which… I understand. Don’t know if it’s correct or not but a reasonable compromise would be to expound upon the stamina section and put a “likely higher” on durability.
And for the record I’m just unsure because I don’t have enough understanding of the criteria.
 
I thought of a counter arguement
Golden_Void said:
Most likely, a swarm of bats is knocking him over, not a single one.
Click to expand...
Here is 1 demobat overpowering Steve and knocking him off of his feat:


And here's Eddie instantly getting up from getting slammed into by a demobat:


Both feats were preformed by 1 demobat, not a swarm. Steve can tank Street Level punches and still keep his footing, but couldn't against a demobat, more-or-less proving Street Level Demobats. Eddie tanked getting rammed into by one pretty well, so that's pretty good evidence for Street Level Durability
Golden_Void said:
Surviving something that is causing you damage is not an example of durability
Click to expand...
Then what is? If a character got hit by a car going full speed and was very badly hurt by the car but not killed, I'd say that's a pretty good example of the character's durability. Eddie quickly walked off getting slammed into by a Demobat hard enough to knock him off of his bike, and the group of demobats were biting at him for a while before they did enough damage to actually kill him. And even then, they didn't really kill him. They just did enough damage to the skin for him to start bleeding, and Eddie was being dumb and didn't try to stop the bleeding. I'd say that's good evidence for durability
Golden_Void said:
If I shoot you nine times and you make it to the hospital and live, you aren't street level
Click to expand...
It's not really a good idea to try and apply real world situations into VS scaling. Powerscaling on VS Battle wiki is just an oversimplified version of real world physics, and doesn't account for all of the variables for actually surviving things. There are tons of cases of regular people with no form of training surviving stuff we would put characters at Street Level or even Wall Level for surviving, like this guy who survived an extremly brutal car accident and only felt tired afterwards or 3 year olds who can survive gunshot wounds to the head. There are far to many variables in real life for it to be properly applied to powerscaling.

So to get to the point, applying a real world example to powerscaling doesn't really work, as in real life, there are a bunch of variables that can let regular 10-B people survive 9-C or 9-B attacks. That's not how things typically work for VS Battle Wiki. Also if you survive 9 bullets, either the person shooting you is a really shitty shot and only shooting you in non-vital areas or you are an absolute freak of nature.
Golden_Void said:
Also, the surface area of a tooth is much smaller than that of a fist or an entire body, allowing it to cause more damage with less energy.
Click to expand...
Piercing damage hasn't been implimented into VS Battle Wiki's AP and Durability Systems all that well, so it's kind of hard to gauge AP and Durability through things like bites
 
I have thought of more revisions

Ages
Most of the character's ages are wrong. This can be easily fixed, as the Stranger Things Wiki has all of the character's ages on it, so we can just use what they have on there for the profiles

Vecna
I was wrong. I have some things wrong with Vecna.

Vecna's First Key
Henry has never been shown being able to go into the void like Eleven can. Just because Henry can also move things with his mind just like Eleven doesn't mean that he automatically has all of the same powers as her. This would mean that Henry's first key shouldn't have Astral Projection, Clairvoyance, Portal Creation or Deconstruction. He has never shown any of these abilities, and just because Eleven can do them doesn't automatically mean that Henry pre-Upside Down visit can too.

Vecna's Second Key
His 2nd key is better, but there is still some stuff that needs to be changed.
  1. He has never been shown using deconstruction. That should be removed.
  2. Multiple Selves should be replaced with Hive Mind, because he's apart of a hive mind
  3. Those infected by Vecna's curse don't just instantly die after a set number of days. They are sent into Vecna's mindscape where they have a chance to fight back/escape, so the description of Vecna's curse needs to be changed.
  4. Unlike his first key, his second key should have clairvoyance. He knows about his victems traumas and worst fears without any realistic way of obtaining that information. So, he should have clairvoyance due to automatically knowing his victem's worst fears and traumas
  5. He should have Dimentional Travel due to opening portals to the upside down, which is a seperate dimention
  6. (I promise this is the last one), He should have resistance to poison manipulation, disease manipulation, and corrousion inducement. Due to living in the upside down for so long, he has become immune to the toxic atmosphere of the upside down, which is capable of making people incredibly sick and can rot organic matter
God this verse has needed a re-work for a while
 
ThePrimalHunter said:
.
Click to expand...
I don't think being yanked by your neck (a weak point) or being body slammed off balance while you are defenselessly riding a bike are strong examples of the tier you are trying to suggest. Clearly, when Eddie was able to properly brace himself and shield his head, it was a non-issue holding his ground.

From the Durability page:

Surface Area
The issue of "cutting" and "piercing" attacks comes up as a result of the difference in surface area between the character being attacked and object being used in attacking them. Even in real-life, a person can do a lot more damage to somebody else with a sword than they can with their bare hands.

This can also be an issue with giant-sized characters being harmed by somebody much smaller than them. A bee can inflict pain on a human without possessing attack potency anywhere comparable to a human's durability.

Surviving Attacks​

Many characters have been shown to survive attacks far above their durability, usually surviving with large injuries that others on their scale usually wouldn't survive. This is because of endurance, as they can endure a certain amount of pain regardless if the attack has burned them or sliced off limbs. This is not a durability factor, as this is a quality that is commonly attributed to willpower.

Getting bitten to death and eventually bleeding out isn't an example of durability. I don't think there's anything there that supports what you suggest. Do you have the link to Jonathan's punching feat?

ThePrimalHunter said:
Vecna's First Key
Henry has never been shown being able to go into the void like Eleven can. Just because Henry can also move things with his mind just like Eleven doesn't mean that he automatically has all of the same powers as her. This would mean that Henry's first key shouldn't have Astral Projection, Clairvoyance, Portal Creation or Deconstruction. He has never shown any of these abilities, and just because Eleven can do them doesn't automatically mean that Henry pre-Upside Down visit can too.
Click to expand...
Being that Henry / 001 is the original person with these powers in the series, and 011 is the best success in a line of experiments to replicate his powers, an argument can be made otherwise.
 
Golden_Void said:
Do you have the link to Jonathan's punching feat?
Click to expand...
Johnathan casually breaking a cops nose with a backhand:


Calc for breaking a human nose with a single punch:
vsbattles.fandom.com

A page for reference of common feats by Jasonsith

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com

Steve tanking Johnathan's nose breaking punch:


Even if the nose wasn't broken, he still sent the cop back a few feet with a backhand and clearly hurt him. That would still be good support for Athlete Level + or so

Either way, I'll give on the Eddie is a stone wall debate. I think I just kind of misunderstood durability

Do you have any problems with Nancy being a stone wall though? I think her arguement for having Athlete Level to Street Level durability is a lot more stable, as she tanked this without injury:


Any thoughts on that?
 
Golden_Void said:
Being that Henry / 001 is the original person with these powers in the series, and 011 is the best success in a line of experiments to replicate his powers, an argument can be made otherwise.
Click to expand...
It was confirmed by Dr. Brenner that she was given her Astral Projection powers to find Henry, meaning that Hawkings Lab probably didn't give her those powers until after Henry disappeared. So they didn't give her those powers to replicate 001's powers, they gave her those powers to find him.

And if he did have the ability to Astral Project and create portals to the upside down the entire time, why did he have to send the Mind Flayer's Monster to steal Eleven's powers if he had the required powers to inact his plan the entire time? He said himself that he needed Eleven's power to inact his plan. If he had her power to open portals and enter the void the entire time, then there was no point for him to get her power. He could have inacted his plan whenever he wanted.

I think there might be grounds for a "Possibly", but because he has never actually shown using those specific powers, he probably shouldn't have them listed or again it should just have a "Possible' next to it
 
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