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Steven Universe vs. Monkey D. Luffy
- Thread starter The_Wright_Way
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- #42
It's fine. Now you know.Kiryu-MG3 said:
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I'll say it again but could Conqueror's Haki affect Steven?
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He took out 50,000 fishmen with one use of it, and fishmen are generally stronger than base humans in every way. It wouldn't surprise me if their individual willpower was each higher than an average human just from that, but they were also charging into battle without hesitation so I'd assume they're better than previous fodder in OP in that regard. They were shaken notably by half their fighters being taken out in an instant so they're not exactly infallible. And they're not greatly better than even Navy soldiers as far as we can prove, but it's safe to assume their willpower in that moment surpassed average humans. Anything further than that isn't as substantial so I'm not comfortable stating it as such.
Of course Steven shouldn't likely have willpower too low seeing as he's the protagonist, but that's hardly justification for him withstanding a direct hit of it from nearly point blank. If anyone has proof for or against his willpower being strong enough to resist Luffy's Haki they should probably present it now to help clear this up.
It should be noted that aside from the 50K fishman KO feat, Luffy has also shown the ability to tame animals using Haki and has done so since they began their journey to Fishman Island after the timeskip. The instance I'm referring to is his taming of the Kraken when they were travelling underwater. I don't know the exact timeframe but I remember it being relatively short. That could just be me misremembering though, and it has been a while since I read One Piece so my memory on it is a little fuzzy.
Of course Steven shouldn't likely have willpower too low seeing as he's the protagonist, but that's hardly justification for him withstanding a direct hit of it from nearly point blank. If anyone has proof for or against his willpower being strong enough to resist Luffy's Haki they should probably present it now to help clear this up.
It should be noted that aside from the 50K fishman KO feat, Luffy has also shown the ability to tame animals using Haki and has done so since they began their journey to Fishman Island after the timeskip. The instance I'm referring to is his taming of the Kraken when they were travelling underwater. I don't know the exact timeframe but I remember it being relatively short. That could just be me misremembering though, and it has been a while since I read One Piece so my memory on it is a little fuzzy.
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Haki's page on this wiki says that taming animals is a pretty low showing for how proficient one is with that power, given their low will power.
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Yeah, the fishman feat is far better, I just wanted to make sure everyone was more or less caught up on his usage of it.
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Stevens willpower allowed him to stay conscious while being compressed by ftl speeds which pearl stated should have crushed him into a pancake
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Is that a willpower feat or a durability feat? Sounds more like the latter but I've seen approximately 3 minutes of SU so I could be wrong.
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Willpower, in that same episode he fought against the same force that was compressing him to the point that he was able to move to turn it off
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Again if he's being physically compressed that sounds more like durability, and extrapolating that to say he has amazing willpower isn't completely logical as that's possible through his physical stats not his mental ability.
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You can't use FTL feats for durability anyways. They break the laws of physics.
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I'm still uncertain as to it's use for proving Steven's willpower. At most he can physically resist that pressure and force, even if it's not possible to calc that and get a durability level for it that doesn't mean it can be recycled into a willpower feat since it wasn't pure willpower that allowed it. That's what I meant when I said it's illogical.
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Haku knockout only works on fodder people, basically anyone with a semblance of willpower won't be knocked out by it
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- #54
Steven managed to telepathically comune with millions of shattered gem shards at once and not get driven out despite them all screaming at him at once.
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^That too^
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Is that really a feat of willpower?The Wright Way said:
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Is that really a feat of willpower?
Malachite was able to force Steven away by wanting him gone bad enough. Later, after Steven gets better with his powers, millions of people can't do the same thing.
Malachite was able to force Steven away by wanting him gone bad enough. Later, after Steven gets better with his powers, millions of people can't do the same thing.
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IIRC Hao Haki can be resisted by anyone but the bigger willpower the target has the lesser effect'll suffer. When Shanks used it in WB ship they were some pirates that barely resisted and others that simply ignored it. If that's correct Steven'd need more than "more than average willpower" to completely resist the Haoshoku. Otherwise he'd get a good shot even if he doesn't faint.
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Basically the answer is yes, steven has the willpower to not be knocked out by haki
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But unless Steven has stronger willpower than Luffy, he'll still get affected.
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No Haki can knock out basically anyone with a weak will but anyone with even a semblance of strong willpower can resist it with varying levels of success depending on the one using it. Steven has feats proving he has more than enough willpower to be able to resist it outright.
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But not fully resist it.
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Isn't that just a feat for his skill with his power? You even say it's after he gets better with them that he performs the feat, so that still doesn't sound like a willpower feat. If anything it's a willpower feat for the person he tried using it on, since they stopped it by wanting him gone.
Are there any feats or examples of Steven displaying low willpower? You've been showing off other feats of how good his willpower might be, though I'm hesitant to accept either as willpower feats in the first place, but nobody has come forth with examples of the opposite. If there are none then Luffy's Haki shouldn't be assumed to work. Saying it only works on fodder doesn't really matter here since Steven apparently isn't much of a fighter and if there is proof of him lacking willpower in this key, then it should work fine.
I'm trying to hold off debating too hard since I know I'm biased and I'm not voting until I'm certain, but I do take some issue with previous votes based on Luffy tiring himself out. That makes the assumption that Luffy, after training with Rayleigh and getting much better at strategizing, would hit Steven's bubble all day without realizing his level of strength couldn't break it. It's more likely he'd stop, try to BFR, and if that failed he'd wait for Steven to exit the bubble. His stubborn nature has led to him standing in one place waiting for several days before, so it's not out of character either.
I also don't know enough about Steven to say what he'd do, so if someone could explain to me how Steven approaches fights in character that would help me a lot in making my decision.
Are there any feats or examples of Steven displaying low willpower? You've been showing off other feats of how good his willpower might be, though I'm hesitant to accept either as willpower feats in the first place, but nobody has come forth with examples of the opposite. If there are none then Luffy's Haki shouldn't be assumed to work. Saying it only works on fodder doesn't really matter here since Steven apparently isn't much of a fighter and if there is proof of him lacking willpower in this key, then it should work fine.
I'm trying to hold off debating too hard since I know I'm biased and I'm not voting until I'm certain, but I do take some issue with previous votes based on Luffy tiring himself out. That makes the assumption that Luffy, after training with Rayleigh and getting much better at strategizing, would hit Steven's bubble all day without realizing his level of strength couldn't break it. It's more likely he'd stop, try to BFR, and if that failed he'd wait for Steven to exit the bubble. His stubborn nature has led to him standing in one place waiting for several days before, so it's not out of character either.
I also don't know enough about Steven to say what he'd do, so if someone could explain to me how Steven approaches fights in character that would help me a lot in making my decision.
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The page says that even having remotely comparable will power allows you to shrug it off. If some fodder pirates could ignore it, then I'm pretty sure Steven can.
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@Vindictive No, it's it's a feat of willpower
No steven has no feats of having having a low willpower, and Steven in this key is very much mucha fighter
No steven has no feats of having having a low willpower, and Steven in this key is very much mucha fighter
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Which fodder pirates?
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If there's no proof of this version of him having low willpower then it probably doesn't work. I still don't accept those other feats as showings of his willpower, but it doesn't really matter since he doesn't need an indomitable will to resist Luffy's haki in the first place.
By "very much a fighter" do you mean "sits in his bubble until he wins"? Because I remember someone making that argument previously and if it isn't in character then I must disagree with it.
By "very much a fighter" do you mean "sits in his bubble until he wins"? Because I remember someone making that argument previously and if it isn't in character then I must disagree with it.
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Steven only managed to not get pushed out because of will. His will overcame the collective will of millions of people, even while exhausting his energy trying to bubble all of them and he still didn't get kicked out until Peridot woke him up.
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What are you talking about? The shards were just shouting at him, not mind-controlling him.
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And I said that still sounds like greater skill with his power. It's a moot point regardless since Haki is out of the question here as a win condition. Luffy can at most get an inconclusive unless Steven in character will drop the bubble, but somehow I doubt that. This is likely decisive for Steven. I'll explain my logic here.
Even should Steven drop the bubble, Luffy won't immediately oneshot him meaning Steven has time to either try fighting back or put the bubble back up. I don't see Luffy trying anything too clever here since even after training he's more or less a very skilled brawler who uses his powers in new and interesting ways, and he's never been one for complex strategies. At most he sits outside the bubble and waits, which even then he can't get more than inconclusive, or he leaves out of boredom and no real desire to fight and effectively BFRs himself.
I'm leaning towards voting Steven so far. Unless he has horrible in character flaws with the way he fights, I'm not seeing a plausible way for Luffy to win.
Edit: I will admit I can be wrong about the willpower thing. I don't follow SU at all and if it's a known in-universe mechanic that it takes greater willpower to remain within mental spaces or dreams (or whatever it is), then it's probably legit as a willpower feat. The way it was described made it sound more like him slowly getting used to a power, and his lack of skill in earlier uses made it easier for other characters to dispel.
Even should Steven drop the bubble, Luffy won't immediately oneshot him meaning Steven has time to either try fighting back or put the bubble back up. I don't see Luffy trying anything too clever here since even after training he's more or less a very skilled brawler who uses his powers in new and interesting ways, and he's never been one for complex strategies. At most he sits outside the bubble and waits, which even then he can't get more than inconclusive, or he leaves out of boredom and no real desire to fight and effectively BFRs himself.
I'm leaning towards voting Steven so far. Unless he has horrible in character flaws with the way he fights, I'm not seeing a plausible way for Luffy to win.
Edit: I will admit I can be wrong about the willpower thing. I don't follow SU at all and if it's a known in-universe mechanic that it takes greater willpower to remain within mental spaces or dreams (or whatever it is), then it's probably legit as a willpower feat. The way it was described made it sound more like him slowly getting used to a power, and his lack of skill in earlier uses made it easier for other characters to dispel.
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He can't in most situations. Literally all of his enemies have infinite stamina. He still spams it like it's nobody's business though.VindictiveLoser said:
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Malachite kicked him out by wanting him gone. Later, he's able to resist thousands of gems wanting him gone.Standuser081 said:
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If he's used to fighting beings with infinite stamina he might be more proactive, but I doubt he'll mistake Luffy for a Gem. He really doesn't look anything like one. At most Steven is weirded out by the stretching and questions Luffy's humanity, but assuming he's a Gem wouldn't be rational at all.
Edit: Is Malachite a fodder gem? If they're all shown or provably on her level it should scale to them all. Still iffy on it being a willpower feat, but I'm not gonna bother debating it since I'm not involved in SU and it has no real bearing on the result here.
Edit: Is Malachite a fodder gem? If they're all shown or provably on her level it should scale to them all. Still iffy on it being a willpower feat, but I'm not gonna bother debating it since I'm not involved in SU and it has no real bearing on the result here.
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I'm pretty sure Luffy would have the stamina to keep fighting Steven until he pops his bubble via scaling to Ace, who fought Jinbei for 5 straight days.
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Steven can keep his shield up while sleeping.Standuser081 said:
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Malachite is pretty high tier. The only ones stronger are the Alexandrite, White Light, the Diamonds, and The Cluster. (In that order)VindictiveLoser said:
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I'm not entirely comfortable saying he can pop it with attacks that are incredibly below it's durability. Unless it's shown a weakness to consecutive attacks it should be able to tank them all. I'm also not certain his stamina can be scaled directly to Ace, but he has decent stamina feats on his own that should be somewhat comparable.
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Assuming that Luffy would be stupid enough to keep fighting nonstop if he knows that the bubble won't pop.
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@Wright If malachite is higher tier then scaling the countless other gems to her is kind of disingenuous as they shouldn't logically be able to match her abilities. If the thousands or millions of gems have no showings then assuming they're equal to a high tier, or that together they can match her feats isn't something I can agree with.
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Said millions of gems were part of the cluster. Who's basically the verse's strongest character.VindictiveLoser said:
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