Star Wars Force User Huge Movement Speeds Downgrade

[Drellix]

This has probably been discussed before but I'm curious as to why all the force users are labeled with continuous Rev speeds? If anything they can move that fast in short bursts. Which happens to be solely reaction speed and partial combat speed. But Rev movement speed is a complete BS.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppeCFJmibO8

At 0:45 seconds, Obi Wan, Anakin and Ahsoka start running and that looks nothing like Sub Rev speed. At about 1:00 minute, you see Obi Wan and Anakin start dashing after the sniper. Now, unless that non Force user has Sub Rev speed, the trio don't. If they truly did, they would have blitzed him when his back was turned. Yet again at 1:42, Anakin is chasing the sniper but he wasn't really gaining any ground. Then the sniper jumps on the speeder bike, which is not Sub Rev and takes off, leaving Anakin in the dust.

I suggest Superhuman speed with Sub Rev Combat Speed in short burst such as dueling and keep reaction speed the same.

If anymore evidence is needed, I have a vast knowledge of this Clone Wars show and can easily find more such cases as this.

Edit: This pertains solely to the Canon material, but arguments could be made for Legends/EU as well.

 

[LordAizenSama]

Interested to see others thoughts on this myself.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

Sub-Rel speeds is for combat only tho. Relativistic reactions are with precognition (like Spider-Man's)

 

[The_Everlasting]

You seem to be arguing too much based on plot, since if they were that fast there'd basically be no story when pertaining to non-Force users.

That and you can't really argue something based on how it looks, or else nothing in fiction is FTL.

 

[Drellix]

If it's not specified, then the Sub Rev speed also stands for movement speed. That's what everyone else thinks because it's not saying

SuperHuman movement with Sub Rev combat and Rev reaction speeds

But due to the lack of clarity, if it's meant to be only combat speed, that's not what everyone, me included, used in battles.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

And why Movement will be so relevant?

Also, this are not the only profiles that doesn't have any clarification for their movement speed

 

[Drellix]

That and you can't really argue something based on how it looks, or else nothing in fiction is FTL.

You can if they are barely covering ground when they are running. Look at the clip again. And I can even provide more such cases given time.

 

[Drellix]

And why Movement will be so relevant?

Many fights will depend on it. Vader beat Saitama because of his speed, but if Vader had only Superhuman speed and Rev combat speed in short bursts (EU Vader), then the outcome would have been different.

Also, this are not the only profiles that doesn't have any clarification for their movement speed
This is is true but that is not what I am talking about right now and can pushed off into another discussion.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

You can if they are barely covering ground when they are running. Look at the clip again. And I can even provide more such cases given time.

With that argument Sonic if Superhuman and Naruto is Subsonic

 

[AidenBrooks999]

"Barely covering ground"


Probably the "in-time" is much slower that real time

 

[WeeklyBattles]

And why Movement will be so relevant?

Many fights will depend on it. Vader beat Saitama because of his speed, but if Vader had only Superhuman speed and Rev combat speed in short bursts (EU Vader), then the outcome would have been different.

Not really, Vader still has higher combat speed, it wouldnt be different at all

 

[Drellix]

Not really, Vader still has higher combat speed, it wouldnt be different at all

Not if it's only in short bursts.

With that argument Sonic if Superhuman and Naruto is Subsonic.
True, but the problem is that this guy stayed ahead of Anakin. And the speeder bike is faster than Sub Rev speed? That doesn't make any sense.

 

[Drellix]

Probably the "in-time" is much slower that real time

Regardless, the sniper was still keeping ahead of Anakin, who was full out running towards him. There's no reason that sniper should be Sub Rev movement speed.

 

[The_Everlasting]

@Drellix

Again, if the creators truly portrayed Anakin at Sub-Rel speed, there would be no story with any non-Force users, as they'd all be defeated in a literal microsecond.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Not really, Vader still has higher combat speed, it wouldnt be different at all

Not if it's only in short bursts.
With that argument Sonic if Superhuman and Naruto is Subsonic.

True, but the problem is that this guy stayed ahead of Anakin. And the speeder bike is faster than Sub Rev speed? That doesn't make any sense.
Short burst/Combat speed is the pretty much one of the biggest factors of the speed unequalized matches here, actual movement speed rarely matters at all

Your argument is still incorrect, you cant just say something is slower because "It doesnt look that fast"

 

[Drellix]

Again, if the creators truly portrayed Anakin at Sub-Rel speed, there would be no story with any non-Force users, as they'd all be defeated in a literal microsecond.

Than the wiki should follow what's shown. This is clear evidence that Sub Rev is movement speed is false. There are many more examples withen the clone wars.

 

[Drellix]

Short burst/Combat speed is the pretty much one of the biggest factors of the speed unequalized matches here, actual movement speed rarely matters at all

Whether it matters or not is not what I'm getting at really. It should be listed regardless.

Your argument is still incorrect, you cant just say something is slower because "It doesnt look that fast"
^I'm not. I'm saying that the sniper is not Sub Rev

 

[The_Mysterious_Stranger_-_Delta-]

Hmm, I will have to be honest and say that movement speed is something that I never took into consideration for force practitioners. As the description of speed for Jedi/Sith...etc is virtually always in relation to their combat speed.

 

[Drellix]

Hmm, I will have to be honest and say that movement speed is something that I never took into consideration for force practitioners. As the description of speed for Jedi/Sith...etc is virtually always in relation to their combat speed.

If that was true, than either all force users are Superhuman in both movement and combat speed or almost every living being in Star Wars is Sub Rev in movement.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

Whether it matters or not is not what I'm getting at really. It should be listed regardless.

Again, it's not relevant at all. Also, a lot of profiles do not have movement speed listed, and nobody is complaining about it.

Why bring up this now and in this verse?

 

[The_Mysterious_Stranger_-_Delta-]

@Drellix Movement/Travel and combat speed are quite different, and it's pretty obvious based on many accolades and statements from quite a few novelizations, that force users have superior combat speed, in comparison to their movement speed.

 

[Drellix]

Again, it's not relevant at all. Also, a lot of profiles do not have movement speed listed, and nobody is complaining about it.

Why bring up this now and in this verse?

It is relevant. What if someone wants to do a race for kicks? They'll use the Sub Rev, which is incorrect. And I'm aware of that. But that's not my problem right now and I'm focusing on Star Wars right now.

I just happened to see this seen and wonder why they have such fast movement speed when a sniper with no force powers was capable of staying ahead of them. What does it matter anyway? It's was bound to be brought up sooner or later. It probably already has. Maybe next time it will be a different verse. But today, right now, it's Star Wars because I think it's necessary to have this straighened out.

No disrespect meant from this. If I come off edgy or aggresive you can thank my brother for that.

 

[Drellix]

@Drellix Movement/Travel and combat speed are quite different, and it's pretty obvious based on many accolades and statements from quite a few novelizations, that force users have superior combat speed, in comparison to their movement speed.

I am aware of this, hence the discussion.

 

[The_Mysterious_Stranger_-_Delta-]

Which is why I might be partially in agreement, since I don't remember any accolades indicating the character's movement speed to be sub-relativistic. Do any feats or statements come to mind Ever? The only case I could think of would be the utilization of force speed.

 

[Drellix]

Which is why I might be partially in agreement, since I don't remember any accolades indicating the character's movement speed to be sub-relativistic. Do any feats or statements come to mind Ever? The only case I could think of would be the utilization of force speed.

And I don't see that making it to Sub Rev. Superhuman normaly with Supersonic Force speed (Just throwing a rating around)

 

[Lina_Shields]

Actually, I agree with Drellix in this scenario. I will post the reasoning below very soon.

However, in order to qualify for Sub-Relativistic movement speed, he/she must move at that speed for extended periods of time (Such as Madara's trip to the Moon).

In any case, all of the movement calculations that were done for the Jedi/Sith were based on brief movements (Slip-Jaws)/combat speed (Obi-Wan slicing a battle droid into pieces), thus a speed feat like this is shown to be done in very short bursts, and not one that could be done for a lengthy period of time.

Thus, my suggestion is:

• Speed: SuperHuman movement speed, Sub-Relativistic reactions/combat speed

Note that the Sub-Relativistic only applies during combat situations only.

 

[The_Mysterious_Stranger_-_Delta-]

Honestly, I agree. Lina's and Drellix's particular case seems sound.

 

[Jucaslucas]

You need movement speed to escape AoE attacks. I think it's better to let it clear on the profiles, especially since the gap is so big.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

Race of kicks? With Star Wars characters? Right....

 

[LordXcano]

Actually, I agree with Drellix in this scenario. I will post the reasoning below very soon.
However, in order to qualify for Sub-Relativistic movement speed, he/she must move at that speed for extended periods of time (Such as Madara's trip to the Moon).

In any case, all of the movement calculations that were done for the Jedi/Sith were based on brief movements (Slip-Jaws)/combat speed (Obi-Wan slicing a battle droid into pieces), thus a speed feat like this is shown to be done in very short bursts, and not one that could be done for a lengthy period of time.

Thus, my suggestion is:

• Speed: SuperHuman movement speed, Sub-Relativistic reactions/combat speed

Note that the Sub-Relativistic only applies during combat situations only.

To add on to this Force Speed (in the application of running) is always portrayed as extremely tiring, and in every single example where it appears (that I can recall at least) it is solidly Subsonic-Subsonic+. A Jedi Master estimated himself using Force Speed at just 100 m/s, although that was in Legends.

In-Canon Force Speed has appeared in one scene that I can pull up, and I don't think that would even exceed Subsonic if I was to calc it. Wookiepeedia lists the other times it has appeared as some time in Episode III (which I may be able to find) and in "Dooku Captured" and "Defenders of Peace" in the Clone Wars, so perhaps Drellix could pull those up?

 

[Darkmon_cns]

Go back through the thread Darkmon, you'll see what im talking about

i have maybe am thinking of a diffrent thread

Which one? I havent been on any in the past hour or so besides the Speed Equalized one

i looked back and didn't see the comment i was thinking of the first thing i thout of was i was thinking of a diffrent thread but i just found it some one brout up you need traval speed to escap area of effeat atacks.

 

[Drellix]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbINcMmYnMk

Here is a scene from Dooku Captured. If you look at 0:22 seconds, you'll see what, I'm assuming to be, Force Speed, mainly for sound effect and him moving faster than ealier.

 

[Drellix]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLLBZsEtuUs

And here at 3:11 you can see Anakin using Force Speed to try and get to the new weapon before it fires on the village.

 

[Lina_Shields]

I thought we were supposed to be discussing just the speed of Star Wars characters, only? Please do not discuss any other topic other than just the topic that is mentioned in the OP. Thank you.

Also, the calculations for the Sub-Relativistic combat speed for the Jedi are listed here, and here. Note that these were done in short, quick bursts only, and both of them were done in combat situations only. It cannot be done for extended periods of time.

The example of LordXCanon and Force Speed would also be counted as combat speed as the Jedi/Sith can only perform Force Speed very short periods of time (hence being relly tired and all), and not for lengthy periods at a time.

An example of movement speed would be Madara's trip to the moon where he casually moved to the Moon in 321 seconds, and Yang's trip in climbing the temple towers.

Also, all of the calcs done for the speed of Star Wars was based on the novels only. If anyone here can find a scenario where he/she moves at a different speed strictly from the novels, feel free to share it here.

 

[LordXcano]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbINcMmYnMk
Here is a scene from Dooku Captured. If you look at 0:22 seconds, you'll see what, I'm assuming to be, Force Speed, mainly for sound effect and him moving faster than ealier.

Alright. I'll get to calculating these later.

 

[Lina_Shields]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbINcMmYnMkHere is a scene from Dooku Captured. If you look at 0:22 seconds, you'll see what, I'm assuming to be, Force Speed, mainly for sound effect and him moving faster than earlier.

Alright. I'll get to calculating these later.

Remember that Everlasting said?

That and you can't really argue something based on how it looks, or else nothing in fiction is FTL.

You cannot get an exact gauge for speed based on what you see in the actual series, especially when the novels contradict it. Quote below.

The slip-jaws maneuver was named for the scissorlike mandibles of the Kashyyyk slash-spider. Droids closing rapidly on their tails, cannonfire stitching space on all sides, the two Jedi pulled their ships through perfectly mirrored rolls that sent them streaking head-on for each other from opposite ends of a vast Republic cruiser. For merely human pilots, this would be suicide. By the time you can see your partner's starfighter streaking toward you at a respectable fraction of lightspeed, it's already too late for your merely human reflexes to react.

This quote indicates that those starfighters are actually moving at relativistic speeds. However, we do not see those starfighters actually moving at relativistic speeds in the movies in our eyes however, then we would not be able to even see those ships at all.

Bottom Line: Even if we got a slower speed calculation based on what was shown in the series, it would still not be applicable due to the fact that the feats from the novels are rather explicit in stuff moving at relativistic speeds from the get-go, and the Jedi/Sith could react to these type of speeds, which their Sub-Relativistic speed calculation is derived from.

 

[Drellix]

Thanks for getting this back on track Lina.

 

[Lina_Shields]

As for my proposition of speed, we actually do not know the exact movement speed for the Jedi/Sith, nor is it even relevant for combat purposes. Thus, the speed for the Jedi/Sith should be:

• Speed: Sub-Relativistic Combat Speed, Reactions, and Short Burst Speed (Capable of trading strikes with Obi-Wan Kenobi and performed the Slip-jaws)

This is because they are capable of fighting at and reacting at these kinds of speeds, already proven by two calculations.

 

[LordXcano]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbINcMmYnMkHere is a scene from Dooku Captured. If you look at 0:22 seconds, you'll see what, I'm assuming to be, Force Speed, mainly for sound effect and him moving faster than earlier.

Alright. I'll get to calculating these later.

Remember that Everlasting said?

That and you can't really argue something based on how it looks, or else nothing in fiction is FTL.

You cannot get an exact gauge for speed based on what you see in the actual series, especially when the novels contradict it. Quote below.

The slip-jaws maneuver was named for the scissorlike mandibles of the Kashyyyk slash-spider. Droids closing rapidly on their tails, cannonfire stitching space on all sides, the two Jedi pulled their ships through perfectly mirrored rolls that sent them streaking head-on for each other from opposite ends of a vast Republic cruiser. For merely human pilots, this would be suicide. By the time you can see your partner's starfighter streaking toward you at a respectable fraction of lightspeed, it's already too late for your merely human reflexes to react.

This quote indicates that those starfighters are actually moving at relativistic speeds. However, we do not see those starfighters actually moving at relativistic speeds in the movies in our eyes however, then we would not be able to even see those ships at all.

Bottom Line: Even if we got a slower speed calculation based on what was shown in the series, it would still not be applicable due to the fact that the feats from the novels are rather explicit in stuff moving at relativistic speeds from the get-go, and the Jedi/Sith could react to these type of speeds, which their Sub-Relativistic speed calculation is derived from.

Both of those feats are movement speed feats, not reflex speed. I'm obviously not gonna calc fight scenes.

 

[Lina_Shields]

Movement speed, meaning combat speed. I have mentioned that in my post above.

Give me a feat shown in the novels where a Jedi/Sith moves at Sub-Relativistic speeds for lengthy periods of time (and not shown to be worn out after).