Arcker fails at calculations for an hour (Dishonored Revisions: Part 1.5)

[Vzearr]

I recalc'd this feat with everything talked about here. Just wanted to bump. Needs Evaluation though.

Emily Blitzes a Bullet (Redux)

vsbattles.fandom.com

This dude really never ceases to amaze me.

1. The bullet never reached its peak velocity, so using average flintlock bullet speed makes no sense.

2. Are you seriously not adding the muzzle of the flintlock for the distance the bullet moved ? Seriously ?

3. How isn't this an outlier ? The highest feat is currently subsonic and its done by Emily. By definition it would be an outlier. Especially after I talked with Cloverdragon about outliers.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

The highest feat is currently subsonic and its done by Emily

Its Supersonic and done casually

 

[Vzearr]

Its Supersonic and done casually

Wtf... So then Clover was talking about this verse ?!

"if a verse consistently has Supersonic calcs and then someone on the same level as these Supersonic characters suddenly has a Hypersonic+ calc, I’d likely consider the Hypersonic+ calc an outlier"

Now the calc is hhs but still.

 

[Arcker123]

This dude really never ceases to amaze me.

You're a complete pseudo.

1. The bullet never reached its peak velocity, so using average flintlock bullet speed makes no sense.

Prove that.

2. Are you seriously not adding the muzzle of the flintlock for the distance the bullet moved ? Seriously ?

Justify why I would.

3. How isn't this an outlier ? The highest feat is currently subsonic and its done by Emily. By definition it would be an outlier. Especially after I talked with Cloverdragon about outliers.

An outlier is a feat that's contradicted by other feats. A lower feat isn't an antifeat.

Wtf... So then Clover was talking about this verse ?!

"if a verse consistently has Supersonic calcs and then someone on the same level as these Supersonic characters suddenly has a Hypersonic+ calc, I’d likely consider the Hypersonic+ calc an outlier"

Now the calc is hhs but still.

We only have one supersonic calc, one that we have no reason to believe would act as some cap towards their speed since there are no showings of them failing to react to attacks lower than HHS.

 

[Vzearr]

You're a complete pseudo.

Okay dude.

Prove that.

You want me to prove that a bullet that hasn't left the chamber isn't moving at its peak speed ? The bullet accelerates whilst in the chamber, meaning it is nowhere near its top speed until it leaves the chamber which is when it reaches top speed.

Justify why I would.

Because if you don't then you would be assuming he didn't shoot the gun ?

An outlier is a feat that's contradicted by other feats. A lower feat isn't an antifeat.

Nope. Even Cloverdragon stated so.

We only have one supersonic calc, one that we have no reason to believe would act as some cap towards their speed since there are no showings of them failing to react to attacks lower than HHS.

The same basis would probably apply.

if a verse has a Supersonic calc and then someone on the same level as these Supersonic characters suddenly has a high hypersonic calc, I’d likely consider the high hypersonic calc an outlier.

 

[Arcker123]

Okay dude.

Don't act like your opinions are worthy of respect when you thought "just throw the sword dude" is an argument.

You want me to prove that a bullet that hasn't left the chamber isn't moving at its peak speed ? The bullet accelerates whilst in the chamber, meaning it is nowhere near its top speed until it leaves the chamber which is when it reaches top speed

The calc is using the distance the bullet moved from the barrel. Pay attention, we've moved on from this point.

Because if you don't then you would be assuming he didn't shoot the gun ?

Why

Nope. Even Cloverdragon stated so.

That's not an argument. Outlier by definition means contradiction.

The same basis would probably apply.

if a verse has a Supersonic calc and then someone on the same level as these Supersonic characters suddenly has a high hypersonic calc, I’d likely consider the high hypersonic calc an outlier

Performing lower feats isn't a contradiction towards performing higher feats. You aren't showing how this is an outlier by saying they've done lower feats.

 

[Vzearr]

Don't act like your opinions are worthy of respect when you thought "just throw the sword dude" is an argument.

Ad Hominem​

The calc is using the distance the bullet moved from the barrel. Pay attention, we've moved on from this point.

Brother. The calc makes no sense.

The way you calc it, you're assuming that the bullet had left the chamber when she began her 90 degree movement without any evidence behind it.

Why

Because the bullet wouldn't have travelled through the chamber meaning it couldn't have been shot.

That's not an argument. Outlier by definition means contradiction.

No it doesn't. That's only a factor (Also said by Cloverdragon).

However he's being confusing with his answers so I'll drop it.

 

[Arcker123]

Ad Hominem

Okie Dokie. Nothing inaccurate about what I said.

Brother. The calc makes no sense.

The way you calc it, you're assuming that the bullet had left the chamber when she began her 90 degree movement without any evidence behind it.

You're actually so dishonest.

The 90 degree thing is just a mid point for when the gun was fired in a 180 degree swing. It's perfectly fine to use and we just had a discussion on this.

Because the bullet wouldn't have travelled through the chamber meaning it couldn't have been shot.

That's not what's happening in the feat though. Again, we covered this previously in the thread. We see a muzzle flash which means it was fired. That's why we use the distance from barrel calculation.

You keep regressing the conversation with the same points for the sake of stonewalling.

No it doesn't. That's only a factor (Also said by Cloverdragon).

However he's being confusing with his answers so I'll drop it.

You keep appealing to authority by citing clover instead of the actual site definition of outlier. I don't care about what some guy's opinion is in comparison to the actual definition. This isn't an argument.

Outliers

An Outlier is an event or incident that is considered to be completely and irreconcilably inconsistent with a character, entity, group, or series' normal displayed level of power. Outliers are often regarded as unusable in forum debates. However, efforts should be made to try to reconcile...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Vzearr]

Okie Dokie. Nothing inaccurate about what I said.

Don't talk to me like this because I'm debunking your calcs.

You're actually so dishonest.

Cool.

The 90 degree thing is just a mid point for when the gun was fired in a 180 degree swing. It's perfectly fine to use and we just had a discussion on this.

No dude. I don't think you understand the assumptions behind your own calculations.

You're assuming he had already fired the gun and that it already left the barrel when she was halfway through her movement. With no proof.

That's not what's happening in the feat though. Again, we covered this previously in the thread. We see a muzzle flash which means it was fired. That's why we use the distance from barrel calculation.

It was fired but we don't know when the bullet left the chamber. The assumption that it was before she cut his arm is baseless.

You keep regressing the conversation with the same points for the sake of stonewalling.

You're seriously saying I'm stonewalling ? On what basis ?

 

[Arcker123]

Don't talk to me like this because I'm debunking your calcs.

Did you not believe that "throw the sword" was an argument?

No dude. I don't think you understand the assumptions behind your own calculations.

You're assuming he had already fired the gun and that it already left the barrel when she was halfway through her movement. With no proof.

The justification is that it's the mid point during the 180 swing.

We've already gone over why we're using this assumption to lowball.

It was fired but we don't know when the bullet left the chamber. The assumption that it was before she cut his arm is baseless.

The justification for using it is that it's a reasonable lowball of the full swing. You're failing to understand that.

You're seriously saying I'm stonewalling ? On what basis ?

You're bringing up old talking points we've already discussed to prevent the conversation from progressing.

This is textbook stonewalling tactics that just show dishonesty.

 

[Vzearr]

Did you not believe that "throw the sword" was an argument?

Shut it please. Stop bringing up old arguments and acting like my debunks can't be correct because of them.

We've already gone over why we're using this assumption to lowball.

Your assumption is an extreme highball.

The justification for using it is that it's a reasonable lowball of the full swing. You're failing to understand that.

Its not a lowball its a highball. This is just a circular debate. I don't ever remember you proving that it was a lowball and should be used (If you did it was before you made the nonsense addition of removing the distance travelled by the bullet in the muzzle).

You're bringing up old talking points we've already discussed to prevent the conversation from progressing.

This is textbook stonewalling tactics that just show dishonesty.

No I'm not.

 

[Arcker123]

Shut it please. Stop bringing up old arguments and acting like my debunks can't be correct because of them.

I never once used the fact you argued, "throwing the sword" as a defeated. I'm just poking fun at you by showing that you make terrible arguments.

Your assumption is an extreme highball.

No justification for that claim. Half the swing is not a highball by definition. A highball would be using the full swing.

Its not a lowball its a highball. This is just a circular debate. I don't ever remember you proving that it was a lowball and should be used (If you did it was before you made the nonsense addition of removing the distance travelled by the bullet in the muzzle).

You have zero justification for the claim that only using half the swing is a highball. Just go read the previous pages for the 90 degrees stuff and stop being dishonest by appealing to your memory.

We're calculating how far the bullet moves away from the muzzle and barrel, obviously We're not including it.

No I'm not.

That's not a counterargument.

 

[KLOL506]

Vzearr, I suggest you tone down your dismissive behavior and stop falsely accusing people. You've already been warned for this by Lephyr in the other thread when you made another thread like this. Also, please don't use "he said, she said", let Clover speak for himself in this thread. You are not the authority on how stuff like this is carried out.

 

[Vzearr]

Vzearr, I suggest you tone down your dismissive behavior and stop falsely accusing people. You've already been warned for this by Lephyr in the other thread when you made another thread like this. Also, please don't use "he said, she said", let Clover speak for himself in this thread. You are not the authority on how stuff like this is carried out.

Are you joking ?

You're a complete pseudo.

Okay dude.

I just ignored it and didn't pay any attention to it by simply saying "Okay dude" it should have been over.

Don't act like your opinions are worthy of respect when you thought "just throw the sword dude" is an argument.

He then pulled this out of nowhere when all I said was "Okay dude" ???

Okie Dokie. Nothing inaccurate about what I said.

You're actually so dishonest.

He then held down on what he said even though it was an Ad Hom

You keep regressing the conversation with the same points for the sake of stonewalling.

He then accused me of stonewalling.

Did you not believe that "throw the sword" was an argument?

He then kept going on about his original point so I told him to "Shut it". It was de-railing the thread and he knows it.

I never once used the fact you argued, "throwing the sword" as a defeated. I'm just poking fun at you by showing that you make terrible arguments.

Now calling my arguments terrible.

But I'm in the wrong here and falsely accusing people ? Nice KLOL, this really makes sense.

I'm unfollowing this thread due to the blatant disrespect I'm being shown. I'll just make a downgrade thread in the future.

 

[KLOL506]

You started this entire mess with this one single comment.

This dude really never ceases to amaze me.

While Arcker should not have continued further (He should tone it down as well), it does not change the fact that you immediately threw the first shot at him and you kept debating stuff that would've held frankly no sway over the feat at all. Long after we had finally decided what metrics to use.

So I suggest that both of you drop it. Your arguments won't convince anyone here anymore.

 

[KLOL506]

@CloverDragon03 Please help out.

@LephyrTheRevanchist Can you please keep an eye out here?

 

[Arcker123]

Me and Klol had a talk over discord and we basically came to an agreement that his Mach 11 calc is best to use.

We currently have 3 staff supporting the revision (unless we need to recount).

 

[KLOL506]

Me and Klol had a talk over discord and we basically came to an agreement that his Mach 11 calc is best to use.

We currently have 3 staff supporting the revision (unless we need to recount).

Needs evaluation from CGMs first. I can't evaluate my own stuff.

@CloverDragon03 @Migue79 @Dark-Carioca @AbaddonTheDisappointment Pls respond.

 

[CloverDragon03]

So this is what all those questions were for... I thought I made it abundantly clear that it depended on the verse because the topic of outliers is so nuanced that I can't really give a blanket answer. Also the appeal to authority go crazy

Also I evaluated the calc

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Well, I'm not really a calc person, but I personally still think the assumptions used in this calc are fine. So if the calc is accepted, I think it being used should be alright.

 

[Vzearr]

Also the appeal to authority go crazy

Appeal to authority is what goes on in every single calculation blog and in every thread. Lets not use it like its not contradictory to the very premise of the vs battle wiki hierarchy.

 

[Arcker123]

We got an evaluation and mod support. Can I apply this or can I wait?

 

[Propellus]

Ignoring the drama from above, anything that the CGMs accepted should be fine by me

 

[Arcker123]

Aight. That's several staff supporting this and the calcs been accepted. Since the grace period is long over, I will add this.

 

[Arcker123]

Done. This can be closed.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Closing.