Staff Only: Using Anime Adaptations for Feats

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

I support using timeframes from animated material rather than guesswork.

 

[LordXcano]

@Ant

If it's going on one of the calculations pages it'd be on the guide, since the actual calculations page is just sources on how to do math. If it's on the guide it'd be a new header just explaining what can and cannot be used. As an example:

• Buu destroying a galaxy over time cannot be used, as that is not depicted in the manga

• Goku circling Namek can be used, as that is presented with minimal differences in both the manga and anime

That and an explanation about how if it's possible to get a timeframe from the manga/primary canon through, say, free-fall (or any other method), then that is preferable over the anime.

 

[LordAizenSama]

Yep I also agree with Xcano

 

[DontTalk]

@Xcano: Wasn't the namek one doubtable, because of cinematic time? I have the impression there was a debate about that at the time we accepted kai as canon or something. But maybe I remember that incorrectly. Whatever...


But as said I think that belongs on the canon page, as that page is the one regulating which sources are used for profiles in my understanding.

For books it already makes clear that primary/secondary canon > tertiary canon (non-canon) in all cases in which it is possible (in regards to cincematic time specifically that would also be the case due to rule 1) and that things that didn't happen in canon are disregarded.

It just has to be generalized from books to everything.


I mean this isn't strictly just for calculations (or at least there is no reason to). Any other detail that can somehow lead to other classification would also be included, if it fulfills the same rules. So putting it on the calc pages seems strange.

 

[Antvasima]

@LordXcano Do you need the Cano and/or Calculation Guide pages temporarily unlocked, so you can write some modifications?

 

[Lina_Shields]

A description will be made for this topic. It will be read as...

As long as a feat from the primary and the secondary canon are displayed in the exact same way, utilization of timeframes displayed in a media that is considered secondary canon (such as an anime adaptation of a feat displayed in a manga) will be allowed. All the rules written in the Cinematic Time page still applies when it comes to evaluation of said feat from the secondary canon.

Do you guys need examples of how this rule would work too?

 

[Antvasima]

I think that wording seems fine, thank you.

 

[Lina_Shields]

I will post it in the Canon page then.

EDIT: I have added it to the Cano page.

 

[Antvasima]

I performed some minor adjustments:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/index.php?title=Canon&diff=1171597&oldid=1171549

 

[DontTalk]

If I may suggest some adjustments:

Currently what is secondary canon is defined twice differently on the page. One through "a media that is considered secondary canon (such as an anime adaptation of a feat displayed in a manga)" and once through "The primary canon is the source material first released (with few possible exceptions), with the other author works being secondary canon."

Since other author works would also take priority over adaptations not overseen by the author anime adaptations should fall into a tertiary canon like for books.

Additionally the rules should, in my understand, allow more than just taking timeframes, but also other details if given.

Furthermore there is now no reason to have special rules for books or lightnovels anymore, since those now become the same as for other media, so those should be fused. In total I would suggest editing the page as follows:

Here the whole page
Canon is a term used to designate what is considered "official" in a certain fictional universe. With few possible exceptions only canon material is featured in the character pages. Non-canon material doesn't count - it never happened.

The generally agreed-upon definition is that the work by the original author and creator of the fictional setting is canon, unless the author or the copyright holder declares otherwise. Few other exceptions are also possible and should be noted on the verse page.

The primary canon is the source material first released (with few possible exceptions), with the other author works being secondary canon.

When different source materials give different versions of the same feat, and by that they contradict each other in the depiction of the feat, the primary canon takes precedence over the secondary canon.

If the feat is correctly depicted over multiple canons any of these can be used to judge the feat. Should by judging the feat through multiple canons different results be reached the result of the primary canon will have priority.

So for most manga series, that means the original manga is canon, while the anime is not (since the anime is simply an adaptation of the manga made by others). Databooks are considered secondary canon since scans tend to contradict them. It should be noted that this is often evaluated on a case - by - case basis.

In addition a tertiary canon will be allowed. The tertiary canon consists of official adaptations not overseen by the author, which do not modify or contradict source material. When other source materials give different versions of the same feat, and by that contradict the tertiary canon in the depiction of the feat, the others take precedence. And here as well, if the feat is correctly depicted over multiple canons any of these can be used to judge the feat. Should by judging the feat through primary or secondary canon a different result be reached than for tertiary canon the result of primary or secondary canon will have priority.

• Entirely new feats of tertiary canon, like for example new abilities, should be disregarded. Details added to existing fight scenes, such as damage caused to the surroundings, can be accepted for text based media like books.
• Any changes based on tertiary canon will only be accepted if they are not contradicted by any instances of another canon, with regards to either the character power-scale, or logical inconsistencies (and plot holes).
• All of the rules that are written in the Cinematic Time page still apply when it comes to evaluation of such tertiary canon feats.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Inb4 MFTL+ DBZ, Rel Naruto, FTL Bleach and FT, etc.

This is different. We cannot use Adaptation-Only feats, or feats that contradict the established levels of the original work.

 

[Antvasima]

I have inserted DontTalk's suggested changes into the page:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/index.php?title=Canon&diff=1172020&oldid=1171597

If anybody wants us to make some improvements, either to the instructions or text structure, feel free to mention it. I am too mentally tired to handle it myself.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

We already do this pretty much, we’re allowed to use Anime context to help out a Manga feat if it’s unclear. The issue arrises when an Anime feat is so clearly above a Manga version of a feat. For example, in Fairy Tail, in the Manga, Deus Sema is not that big compared to Erza and creates a small impact upon re-entering Earth’s Atmosphere, meanwhile in the Anime, the shit is humongous and practically shakes the planet when it enters its atmosphere. Anime helps add context and scaling when need be, but the point is that Manga takes priority when compared to the Anime in general.

 

[Agnaa]

Uh, was this 6 year necro really necessary?

 

[Robo432343]

We already do this pretty much, we’re allowed to use Anime context to help out a Manga feat if it’s unclear. The issue arrises when an Anime feat is so clearly above a Manga version of a feat. For example, in Fairy Tail, in the Manga, Deus Sema is not that big compared to Erza and creates a small impact upon re-entering Earth’s Atmosphere, meanwhile in the Anime, the shit is humongous and practically shakes the planet when it enters its atmosphere. Anime helps add context and scaling when need be, but the point is that Manga takes priority when compared to the Anime in general.

this thread is 6 years old

why did you randomly say smthing here

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Cause someone randomly posted it in one of the discord servers I was in and I assumed it was a new thread cause it wasn't closed

 

[Dereck03]

Certainly a "Please kill me" moment you got there mitch.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Certainly a "Please kill me" moment you got there mitch.

Screw it, I'm closing this thread out of spite!