(Staff discussion) Re-adding Goku's resistance to Time stop

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

Those are both direct statments, but the Jiren one is in sub and dub. While the Goku statment is in the dub only. However, If you go by Vados statment of Hit skipping and not stopping it, then the dub's statment still holds true.

and we consider it an outliner right. It seems you can do anything in dragon ball with raw power.

 

[ArmBill]

and we consider it an outliner right. It seems you can do anything in dragon ball with raw power.

Other people think so, but I don't agree. Since 4 people have been shown moving in the time skip. As well as other examples, so it can't be an outlier. However, the main contention is if its Time Stop or Time skip. The latest in universe info is Vados' statement, so I go with the latter.

 

[Antvasima]

Is somebody willing to re-add the resistance to time stop to Goku, Jiren, and characters that scale to them?

 

[Hop_Hoppington-Hoppenhiemer]

Bro there is a typo in your title, "Stuff discussion", change it to staff.

Based.

Anyway, yes this is a logical correction, even is clear in the manga. If Hop is lucky can find or provide additional evidence via scans. As for Hit's range being only in the immediate area or outright universal, it seems to be one of those things dictated by the plot/fight. As Time Travel is illegal in realm of DBS, Hit would be destroyed for his ability, so what's exactly happening there is author flare to add tension, and not a really well-thought-out set of powers for an antagonist.

 

[Vietthai96]

Based.

Anyway, yes this is a logical correction, even is clear in the manga. If Hop is lucky can find or provide additional evidence via scans. As for Hit's range being only in the immediate area or outright universal, it seems to be one of those things dictated by the plot/fight. As Time Travel is illegal in realm of DBS, Hit would be destroyed for his ability, so what's exactly happening there is author flare to add tension, and not a really well-thought-out set of powers for an antagonist.

And people still time travel like no tomorrow. But again if we talk about rule and law, and Hit travel into future, he not even travel beyond 1s (he improved the technique from 0.1s to 0.5s, unknown amount of time after the SSBKKx10 Kamehameha)

 

[Hop_Hoppington-Hoppenhiemer]

Whis and Trunks abuse time for the sake of saving the universe, not just to have a fun fight or win some tournament

 

[Vietthai96]

Whis and Trunks abuse time for the sake of saving the universe, not just to have a fun fight or win some tournament

Tbh with you, this is not a debunk or counter-argument at all, so just because hit don't use time travel for the sake of universe then his time skip is not some kind of psuedo time-travel????

 

[Hop_Hoppington-Hoppenhiemer]

no
hop is no longer accepting responses

 

[ArmBill]

Whis and Trunks abuse time for the sake of saving the universe, not just to have a fun fight or win some tournament

The gods mostly frown upon going back in time, since it creates a new timeline. Hit only moves forward in time which has no multiverse consequences on its own. Even the kais are allowed to go to the future with out punishment. They just don't care that much about time manipulation, as long as it doesn't create a time ring ultimately.

 

[God900]

And people still time travel like no tomorrow. But again if we talk about rule and law, and Hit travel into future, he not even travel beyond 1s (he improved the technique from 0.1s to 0.5s, unknown amount of time after the SSBKKx10 Kamehameha)

Again, we already said That Hit didn't use any type of time travel against Goku.
Even Hit stated himself that he stops time when he was about to kill the mob Boss (the rich Alien), and the Toei official Page further proves my point.

The page itself states that Hit's Time stop for 0'1 and then in the show he improves It from 0'1 to beyond, so.....
Even the character himself stated that he stops time.

So we have Toei official Website statements and Hit's statement, fair enough...

Even the sypnopsis puts the word "Time Skip" in comas, and then states that it stopped time.

 

[Axxtentacle]

What? Doesn't Vados describe Hit's ability as Hit skips time, saves it up, and can stop time with said saved up time, at least in the anime?

 

[Vietthai96]

Again, we already said That Hit didn't use any type of time travel against Goku.
Even Hit stated himself that he stops time when he was about to kill the mob Boss (the rich Alien), and the Toei official Page further proves my point.

The page itself states that Hit's Time stop for 0'1 and then in the show he improves It from 0'1 to beyond, so.....
Even the character himself stated that he stops time.

So we have Toei official Website statements and Hit's statement, fair enough...

Even the sypnopsis puts the word "Time Skip" in comas, and then states that it stopped time.

Again Hit stop time way after the U6 vs U7 arc and backscale his improved time hax is also make no sense, it is like you claim Chou SSB Goku can use Hakai back in U6 vs U7 arc because he use it in SSB when fight Chou Fused Zamasu.
Official Toei site statement got ret-con hard by Vados in-universe statement, and Vados is a angel, she is one of the most reliable sources of information along with Whis, attemp to ignore her statement to suit your interpretation of the ability prove that your argument is really bad.

 

[God900]

Again Hit stop time way after the U6 vs U7 arc and backscale his improved time hax is also make no sense, it is like you claim Chou SSB Goku can use Hakai back in U6 vs U7 arc because he use it in SSB when fight Chou Fused Zamasu.
Official Toei site statement got ret-con hard by Vados in-universe statement, and Vados is a angel, she is one of the most reliable sources of information along with Whis, attemp to ignore her statement to suit your interpretation of the ability prove that your argument is really bad.

Nope, Offical Toei website statement + Hit's Statement>>Vado's, two statements>one
Also, the visuals of the technique in both instances, prove my point aswell.
I rather listen to Hit's statement which is the character that has the technique and should know it better than any other character.
The sypnopsis says that Hit stopped the time 0'1 seconds and further, Hit's states that he can stop time, the visuals are exactly the same, Goku is also freezed like the guys you see in the video down below. I'm not backscaling.

We have two sources/statements that contradicts one, so.



And again, this:

 

[Vietthai96]

Nope, Offical Toei website statement + Hit's Statement>>Vado's, two statements>one
Also, the visuals of the technique in both instances, prove my point aswell.
I rather listen to Hit's statement which is the character that has the technique and should know it better than any other character.

We have two sources/statements that contradicts one, so.


And again, this:

Again you backscale the ability, Hit never display this in U6 vs U7, and Official Toei site get debunk by Vados. Visual do nothing, if we use visual, then anyone with purple ki should have Hakai Ki

 

[Rez]

Hit never display this in U6 vs U7

Hit hitting Goku within time skip

 

[God900]

Again you backscale the ability, Hit never display this in U6 vs U7, and Official Toei site get debunk by Vados. Visual do nothing, if we use visual, then anyone with purple ki should have Hakai Ki

Nope, the sypnopsis says that Hit stopped the time 0'1 seconds and further, Hit's states that he can stop time, the visuals are exactly the same, Goku is also freezed like the guys you see in the video down below. I'm not backscaling.
The visuals for Hit's technique are kinda unique, you see some type of glass/ice that pops up when Hit's uses the ability, you can't compare.

Even if we take in count Vado's statement, Who says that she was refering to the previous fight that Goku and Hit had in tournament U6 VS U7??

She was refering to the technique that Hit was using to store time which allowed him to turn intangible, and create a separate space-time aka pocket dimension.

 

[God900]

Jaco and the Galactic King stating that Hit is indeed stopping time

 

[Antvasima]

Is somebody willing to re-add the resistance to time stop to Goku, Jiren, and characters that scale to them?

 

[Elizhaa]

Is somebody willing to re-add the resistance to time stop to Goku, Jiren, and characters that scale to them?

I can. It should be only Goku's profile that is affected since the last changes applied don't seem to revised other profiles.
Edit: Done.

 

[God900]

I can. It should be only Goku's profile that is affected since the last changes applied don't seem to revised other profiles.
Edit: Done.

True, but that's becouse Jiren and others still have It.

 

[Vietthai96]

Jaco and the Galactic King stating that Hit is indeed stopping time

First Galatic King said Time Leap, and second while Jacob said he freeze time, the next batte Goku retcon it again with time leap

Hit hitting Goku within time skip

Bad feat, Goku body still being affected by the punch and moved, vomited, if it is timestop all of Goku affected movement will be displayed after the time hax stop it effect, Goku body must stay freeze


the video above is true example of being timestop

 

[Elizhaa]

True, but that's becouse Jiren and others still have It.

Yes, the past changes were only towards Son Goku (Dragon Ball Super)'s profile, from what I check.

 

[God900]

First Galatic King said Time Leap, and second while Jacob said he freeze time,

"Time leap" means Toki Tobashi, and directly translates to "Time skip" but that's just the name of the technique. Jaco was explaning exactly what the Galatic King said In simple words for Goku to understand it. So Jaco explained the mechanism of the technique in a easier way for Goku.
And being stated that it stops time is consistant with the page summary for chapter 39 In official Toei page. Which correleates with the 0'1 seconds thing stated in the Official Page, Hit stops the time for 0'1 secs, and in verse, is stated that aswell, you can't deny it.

Also, HIT HIMSELF stated that he stops time, when he was about to kill the rich Alien.


And, Vados wasn't refering to the previous battle that HIT and Goku had previously in the U6 VS U7 ARC.
She was refering to the new technique that Hit was displaying against Goku in the second encounter that they were having.

She was talking about how Hit was able to store the "skipped" time, creating a parallel dimension, aka pocket dimension. A different space-time.
That's why she says: "That's why he can be seen, but not touched".

Which proofs that she was talking about the mechanism of the technique that was allowing him to turn intangible.
AN ENTIRELY NEW TECHNIQUE

Hit was using an entirely different technique, than the one shown in U6 VS U7 ARC

 

[Vietthai96]

"Time leap" means Toki Tobashi, and directly translates to "Time skip" but that's just the name of the technique. Jaco was explaning exactly what the Galatic King said In simple words for Goku to understand it.
And being stated that it stops time is consistant with the page summary for chapter 39 In official Toei page. Which correleates with the 0'1 seconds thing stated in the Official Page, Hit stops the time for 0'1 secs, and in verse, is stated that aswell, you can't deny it.

Also, HIT HIMSELF stated that he stops time, when he was about to kill the rich Alien.


And, Vados wasn't refering to the previous battle that HIT and Goku had previously in the U6 VS U7 ARC.
She was refering to the new technique that Hit was displaying against Goku in the second encounter that they were having.

She was talking about how Hit was able to store the time, creating a parallel dimension, aka pocket dimension.
That's why she says: "That's why he can be seen, but not touched".
Which proofs that she was talking about the technique that was allowing him to turn intangible.

Hit was using an entirely different technique, that the one shown in U6 VS U7 ARC

1. Again you backscale the technique from later arc to earlier arc
2. I don't deny he can timestop, but that is the feat he shown in the later arc, you continuing to backscale the ability
3. Vados never specific what battle, she just said Hit technique is skip time, and he store the time he skip to make his own pocket dimension, what she said is general information to his ability that Hit can time skip
4. You admit this yourself that he using different kind of time hax during the first battle with Goku, that he didn't use the version he later develop to timestop

Now come to the final point, most of you said Hit stop time, but let me ask a question, how Goku can counter Hit if it is time-stop as he in his base form clearly can't "resist" it assuming that time-skip is timestop, don't tell me that Goku suddenly develop resistance to a hax just by predicting Hit movement???. Next is, if Hit stop time, how can Goku predicting his movement to counter, as when you get freezed by time stop your thought stopped as well, so how Goku can predict Hit movement when his own thought get freezed, in order to predict he need to think.

 

[God900]

1. Again you backscale the technique from later arc to earlier arc
2. I don't deny he can timestop, but that is the feat he shown in the later arc, you continuing to backscale the ability
3. Vados never specific what battle, she just said Hit technique is skip time, and he store the time he skip to make his own pocket dimension, what she said is general information to his ability that Hit can time skip
4. You admit this yourself that he using different kind of time hax during the first battle with Goku, that he didn't use the version he later develop to timestop

Now come to the final point, most of you said Hit stop time, but let me ask a question, how Goku can counter Hit if it is time-stop as he in his base form clearly can't "resist" it assuming that time-skip is timestop, don't tell me that Goku suddenly develop resistance to a hax just by predicting Hit movement???. Next is, if Hit stop time, how can Goku predicting his movement to counter, as when you get freezed by time stop your thought stopped as well, so how Goku can predict Hit movement when his own thought get freezed, in order to predict he need to think.

...........Sigh

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out Elizhaa.

What is left to do here God900?

 

[God900]

Thank you for helping out Elizhaa.

What is left to do here God900?

Nothing more, Goku already has analytical prediction, and Time stop resistance is already accepted and applied by Elizha.

So you can close this thread.

 

[Vietthai96]

Sigh

Debunk properly, this is not a way for you to get out of this or demand to close

 

[Antvasima]

I would also much prefer to close this thread, rather than have all of us be required to continue to participate in or listen to an argument about immeasurable or infinite speed that won't lead anywhere.

 

[Vietthai96]

I would also much prefer to close this thread, rather than have all of us be required to continue to participate in or listen to an argument about immeasurable or infinite speed that won't lead anywhere.

I don't even debate about speed, Goku never resist the time skip in the first place because it is not a timestop, he should not have that resistance (possibly if you scale him to Jiren but that is ToP Arc)

 

[God900]

Debunk properly, this is not a way for you to get out of this or demand to close

1. Time stop is already applied in the profiles. And you keep Ignoring Jaco's point, explaning the Galactic King's word in a easier way for Goku to understand.

2. Now, in verse is implied that Hit stops time for 0'1 seconds and can improve it further, which is consistant with Toei's official Website.

3. Hit himself stated that he stopped time when he was about to kill the mob Boss.

4. Exactly, Vados was explaning Hit's new ability which allowed him to turn intangible.
He never used this ability in tournament U6 VS U7.

Anyway, Inma stop talking in this thread, I provide solid arguments is It like talking to wall.

 

[God900]

I would also much prefer to close this thread, rather than have all of us be required to continue to participate in or listen to an argument about immeasurable or infinite speed that won't lead anywhere.

Ant, we should just close this thread, becouse It Will get spammy, the pruposal from the OP is already accepted, so there is no point on still talking here.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I will do so.