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((SPOILERS)) Deltarune Chapter 2 Upgrades/Additions

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Wait, update Spamton NEO adding Ice Manipulation resistance, he wast just destroyed, not frozen.
Every time when IceShock using, there's Frozing sound after that. But, in Snowgrave NEO fight there was just damage sound
 
Originlima said:
Wait, update Spamton NEO adding Ice Manipulation resistance, he wast just destroyed, not frozen.
Every time when IceShock using, there's Frozing sound after that. But, in Snowgrave NEO fight there was just damage sound
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That just means the ice wasn't strong enough. N e x t.
 
Given how he was still obliterated by ice, I don't think he resists it lol.

Berdly also resists the effect of IceShock, but it still heavily damaged by it.
 
Therefir said:
There's something wrong about light world Noelle's running speed.

College cross-country teams only require normal human levels of speeds to be able to properly compete, they are nowhere near the speed of olympic athletes.

So Noelle should be downgraded to Average human speed in the light world.
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Done'zo.
Therefir said:
But she is deer so that automatically makes her superhuman? Who knows
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I dunno that's the case, Noelle can't run on all fours with an anatomy like that, lol
 
Lou_change said:
Seems fine maybe minor transmutation for changing roof color of those tiny houses but otherwise a great job.
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This happens by approximation with Ralsei and Kris too, so I'd say it's slightly far fetched.

Thanks, I tried my best. Getting the attacks was very tedious, lol
 
I suppose perhaps a possibly ability but perhaps not. I just don't know a better explanation for what happened in that fight.
 
Lou_change said:
I suppose perhaps a possibly ability but perhaps not. I just don't know a better explanation for what happened in that fight.
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Seems to be just a game, from what I can tell.

Either way, I think I'll do Sweet Cap'n Cakes next since they're probably harder than Swatchlings, leave the easiest to the end. (These poor guys waiting 2 weeks to get a basic profile)
 
Lou_change said:
I suppose perhaps a possibly ability but perhaps not. I just don't know a better explanation for what happened in that fight.
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I'd say it's a Possibly for Spamton, yeah. Noelle does a significant amount of damage across 3 hits, & Spamton surviving it at, at most 10% HP would be a little weird, especially seeing as Noelle's Magic doesn't care about Defense normally, meaning it probably doesn't care about Bluelight Specil's defensive boost.

He didn't get frozen, but if I'm checking the cutscene right, we don't see his fate beyond the damage, since it's just a black screen & then the SOUL Sealing the Fountain. Dunno if he just falls over like he does in Non-Weird Route/SnowGrave when all his strings are cut, if he disintegrates, & we can't see the area, let alone if he's frozen there or not.
 
Imaginym said:
I'd say it's a Possibly for Spamton, yeah. Noelle does a significant amount of damage across 3 hits, & Spamton surviving it at, at most 10% HP would be a little weird, especially seeing as Noelle's Magic doesn't care about Defense normally, meaning it probably doesn't care about Bluelight Specil's defensive boost.

He didn't get frozen, but if I'm checking the cutscene right, we don't see his fate beyond the damage, since it's just a black screen & then the SOUL Sealing the Fountain. Dunno if he just falls over like he does in Non-Weird Route/SnowGrave when all his strings are cut, if he disintegrates, & we can't see the area, let alone if he's frozen there or not.
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He becomes an item
 
GodlyCharmander said:
He becomes an item
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In Non-Weird/Non-SnowGrave Route, yeah. We don't see his fate in the Weird/SnowGrave Route, with the screen going blank black except for the damage & then the SOUL Sealing the Fountain once Bluelight Specil Spamton Neo is defeated. If he turned into an item like his other defeats, we don't see it happen, do we? (Plus, turning himself into an item is something he usually has to do voluntarily. Whether he's still up & about, I doubt he'd be willing to do so in Weird/SnowGrave Route.)
 
Imaginym said:
In Non-Weird/Non-SnowGrave Route, yeah. We don't see his fate in the Weird/SnowGrave Route, with the screen going blank black except for the damage & then the SOUL Sealing the Fountain once Bluelight Specil Spamton Neo is defeated. If he turned into an item like his other defeats, we don't see it happen, do we? (Plus, turning himself into an item is something he usually has to do voluntarily. Whether he's still up & about, I doubt he'd be willing to do so in Weird/SnowGrave Route.)
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We get the shadow crystal and the puppetscarf in the Snowgrave Route (just silently), so yes, he turns into an item.
 
GodlyCharmander said:
We get the shadow crystal and the puppetscarf in the Snowgrave Route (just silently), so yes, he turns into an item.
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Odd that he'd give the Scarf, since it's normally given voluntarily.

Also, when giving an item, part of his dialogue is:
  • With a power like that...
  • Maybe you three can break your own strings.
Which implies he gives it wanting them to break their strings. I'm skeptic he's so benign in the Weird/SnowGrave Route. Shadow Crystals are just for defeating strong enemies, & don't need to be given voluntarily.

So we don't see if he lives/gets frozen solid or not, the Dark World he's in disappears like, very shortly after Noelle attacks, & it doesn't seem like Spamton on that route would be willing to turn himself into an item to give to the person he feels resentment & betrayal towards, even if he was still alive/recovered before the Dark World disappears.
If you get the PuppetScarf after beating Bluelight Specil Spamton, I can believe that that happens, but it's very weird that it happens at all.
 
Imaginym said:
Odd that he'd give the Scarf, since it's normally given voluntarily.

Also, when giving an item, part of his dialogue is:
  • With a power like that...
  • Maybe you three can break your own strings.
Which implies he gives it wanting them to break their strings. I'm skeptic he's so benign in the Weird/SnowGrave Route. Shadow Crystals are just for defeating strong enemies, & don't need to be given voluntarily.

So we don't see if he lives/gets frozen solid or not, the Dark World he's in disappears like, very shortly after Noelle attacks, & it doesn't seem like Spamton on that route would be willing to turn himself into an item to give to the person he feels resentment & betrayal towards, even if he was still alive/recovered before the Dark World disappears.
If you get the PuppetScarf after beating Bluelight Specil Spamton, I can believe that that happens, but it's very weird that it happens at all.
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It's not willing, he is just defeated and Kris wakes up with the puppetscarf in their inventory.

The means which lead to that item being there are left unknown, and you won't even know you got it unless you checked. But we know for a fact it's Spamton, as the Puppetscarf functions exactly like normal and is still concious
 
GodlyCharmander said:
It's not willing, he is just defeated and Kris wakes up with the puppetscarf in their inventory.
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Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Normally, before giving PuppetScarf, Spamton is defeated, reverts to base, gives a speech about the strength Kris, Susie & Ralsei has, then turns himself into PuppetScarf to give to them.
Here, he's defeated, we don't see him revert, give a speech, nor turn himself into an item, & he has motivation AGAINST giving himself to the Kris he encountered in this route.
GodlyCharmander said:
The means which lead to that item being there are left unknown, and you won't even know you got it unless you checked. But we know for a fact it's Spamton, as the Puppetscarf functions exactly like normal and is still concious
Click to expand...
Also, just to be sure, you mean going to Castle Town's Dark World after Chapter 2 & checking your Inventory there, since the PuppetScarf doesn't have a Light World version, & there's no opportunity after defeating Bluelight Specil Spamton before the Fountain is sealed to check Inventory.
 
Can the delta warriors possibly be hypersonic due to dodging electricity in the Sweet Cap'n Cakes boss fight and I have heard from earlier here something about electricity balls from tasque and werewires?
 
Imaginym said:
Also, just to be sure, you mean going to Castle Town's Dark World after Chapter 2 & checking your Inventory there, since the PuppetScarf doesn't have a Light World version, & there's no opportunity after defeating Bluelight Specil Spamton before the Fountain is sealed to check Inventory.
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Yes, it happens after Noelle "kills" Spamton, and before the fountain is sealed, and thus, Spamton is turned into his "light world item form".
 
Non-Lethal Electricity: Mach 1.63
Kris: Mach 1.7
Tasque Manager's eletricity bolts: Faster than Non-Lethal Eletricity, and faster than Kris' SOUL.

Very consistent, if you ask me.
 
GodlyCharmander said:
Yes, it happens after Noelle "kills" Spamton, and before the fountain is sealed, and thus, Spamton is turned into his "light world item form".
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But AFAIK, besides that you can't check your inventory to find the item, we don't see Spamton turn himself into an item, & it seems out of character for him to turn himself into an item for a person he hates when previously he'd done it because he admired their strength & thought it might help them "break free of their strings".

& if he's practically dead or nonfunctioning, it doesn't seem like he'd do something that's normally voluntary. Not to mention, if he is dead/nonfunctioning, then that makes him resisting the ice all the more questionable.
 
Imaginym said:
But AFAIK, besides that you can't check your inventory to find the item, we don't see Spamton turn himself into an item, & it seems out of character for him to turn himself into an item for a person he hates when previously he'd done it because he admired their strength & thought it might help them "break free of their strings".

& if he's practically dead or nonfunctioning, it doesn't seem like he'd do something that's normally voluntary. Not to mention, if he is dead/nonfunctioning, then that makes him resisting the ice all the more questionable.
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As I said, we don't know why or how he did it. But we do know he did it regardless.

The same way we don't know how Noelle even got there in the first place, it's a very confusing scene, and I believe it's supposed to be.

I'm not arguing in favor of Spamton getting this resistance, I'm against it. If he was defeated by it, then he shouldn't resist it, period.
 
GodlyCharmander said:
As I said, we don't know why or how he did it. But we do know he did it regardless.

The same way we don't know how Noelle even got there in the first place, it's a very confusing scene, and I believe it's supposed to be.
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In my opinion, if Spamton's character doesn't support him giving himself as PuppetScarf to someone he hates, & at the time the item was to be given, he's probably dead or incapacitated, then it may have been involuntarily, or through some other, but unknown means.

I don't deny he can turn into PuppetScarf to give himself to someone, but.... Well, to reuse an iconic phrase from Deltarune: Your choices don't matter.
Spamton has the ability to turn himself into PuppetScarf to be an item to be received, but I think here, his transformation &/or obtainment were not his choice, because it's OoC & at the time, he probably wasn't... conscious enough to make any influential decision on the matter.

We don't really know how or what happened, unless it's just a weird Shadow Crystal boss Game Mechanic so we always get the equipment, kinda like getting Jevil's Item for beating him on previous SAVE Files. (Even though, IIRC, the Jevil thing may have a lore explanation, it probably was implemented at least for player convenience.)
GodlyCharmander said:
I'm not arguing in favor of Spamton getting this resistance, I'm against it. If he was defeated by it, then he shouldn't resist it, period.
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Fair. I agree with opposing Spamton having Resistance to Ice Manipulation.
At best. it's a Possibly because it's unclear if he would've been defeated from higher than 10% by the IceShocks & Noelle's Magic ignores DEFENSE. (Although, strictly by the game mechanics numbers, it'd a little below a two-shot.) But since he was in his higher DEFENSE form that did nothing to protect him, & not much suggests he should Resist it.... & also, Durability Negation isn't necessarily a one-shot (& IIRC, Temperature-relevant Durability can be its own things.), I can understand rejecting Spamton Resisting Ice Manipulation.
 
Lou_change said:
He only ever transforms when dying if I recall.
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If my memory serves, it's not specified if he's dying or not. As for the dialogue when it happens:

Receiving Item
  • It seems after all I couldn't be anything more than a simple puppet.
  • But you three... You're strong.
  • With a power like that...
  • Maybe you three can break your own strings.
  • Let me become your strength.
Receiving Item (full inventory)
  • ... Kris...? Kris!? KRIS!?!?!?
  • YOU FILLED YOUR [Inventorium] WITH [Half-Pr1ce Sallamy] JUST TO KEEP ME OUT!?
  • WHAT! THE! [Fifty Percent Off]!? (the game pauses on "F" for a significant duration)
  • YOU CAN CARRY LIKE 48 ITEMS!!!
  • [Why] DID YOU DO THIS!? WHY!? [Y]!? [Yellow]!? [Gamma]!?
  • NOT [Cool] KRIS! I'LL BE IN MY [Trailer]!

IMHO, saying "Let me become your strength" doesn't sound like something you say when dying, as opposed to turning into a power-up. But nonetheless, the dialogue suggests it's voluntary. Plus, he can put himself into a treasure chest to be collected later, so I'm unsure how final it is for him.

Plus, since both Jevil & Spamton are Shadow Crystal holders with "freedom" themes to them, who turn into equipment after defeat, seemingly voluntarily; If they have anything in common, it'd be weird if one was alive after being defeated & transforming & the other wasn't.
 
Imaginym said:
In my opinion, if Spamton's character doesn't support him giving himself as PuppetScarf to someone he hates, & at the time the item was to be given, he's probably dead or incapacitated, then it may have been involuntarily, or through some other, but unknown means.

I don't deny he can turn into PuppetScarf to give himself to someone, but.... Well, to reuse an iconic phrase from Deltarune: Your choices don't matter.
Spamton has the ability to turn himself into PuppetScarf to be an item to be received, but I think here, his transformation &/or obtainment were not his choice, because it's OoC & at the time, he probably wasn't... conscious enough to make any influential decision on the matter.

We don't really know how or what happened, unless it's just a weird Shadow Crystal boss Game Mechanic so we always get the equipment, kinda like getting Jevil's Item for beating him on previous SAVE Files. (Even though, IIRC, the Jevil thing may have a lore explanation, it probably was implemented at least for player convenience.)
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Puppetscarf is Spamton himself, and he has to transform himself, no? It makes no sense for Noelle's magic to do so, or just his defeat alone cause such thing.
 
GodlyCharmander said:
Puppetscarf is Spamton himself, and he has to transform himself, no? It makes no sense for Noelle's magic to do so, or just his defeat alone cause such thing.
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You don't think he could automatically turn into an Animate Object when defeated?

That said, I don't think it makes sense for his characterization to turn himself into a gift for someone he hates.
& I don't think it makes sense for him to transform himself when dead, disappeared or frozen into unconsciousness or more severe incapacitation; How could he do that when he's not able to take action?
GodlyCharmander said:
I have to ask, will debating about this aspect be of any significance for the profiles?
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Probably not much.
I think that, at best, it decides if his Transformation into an Inanimate Object (Living or otherwise) upon being defeated is a Passive or something he has to voluntarily do.
Sorry for any bother.
 
Imaginym said:
Probably not much.
I think that, at best, it decides if his Transformation into an Inanimate Object (Living or otherwise) upon being defeated is a Passive or something he has to voluntarily do.
Sorry for any bother.
Click to expand...
It's okay, I'm just wondering.
It doesn't seem to be very relevant for the CRT, so let's hold this conversation for the general discussion.
 
GodlyCharmander said:
It's okay, I'm just wondering.
It doesn't seem to be very relevant for the CRT, so let's hold this conversation for the general discussion.
Click to expand...
Fair enough, I'm fine with continuing it there.

Anyway, we're on board with the idea that Spamton doesn't Resist Ice Manipulation, &/or it's only a "Possibly" Resistance?
 
Imaginym said:
Fair enough, I'm fine with continuing it there.

Anyway, we're on board with the idea that Spamton doesn't Resist Ice Manipulation, &/or it's only a "Possibly" Resistance?
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Yes. Not even a possibility, to be honest. It's just far fetched to scale to something that defeated you, and we don't even know what happened to him after the attack, so I don't see a scenario where the resistance is possible. (As in, a 50-50)
 
GodlyCharmander said:
Yes. Not even a possibility, to be honest. It's just far fetched to scale to something that defeated you, and we don't even know what happened to him after the attack, so I don't see a scenario where the resistance is possible. (As in, a 50-50)
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Defeated him at very low HP (With him a High DEF form, but the Magic ignores DEF.), & the damage wouldn't have oneshot him from full HP (But game mechanics & Durability Negation doesn't need to be a One Shot.), but I get what you mean.

But yeah, I can see myself agreeing with the rejection case.
 
I apologize Imaginym if I am not mistaken you got the idea from this comment
Lou_change said:
I suppose perhaps a possibly ability but perhaps not. I just don't know a better explanation for what happened in that fight.
Click to expand...
I was talking about the roof transmutation with Charmander. I wasn't aware you commented before that.
 
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