• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Spite. No, but 2-C Beerus and Champa.

Status
Not open for further replies.
Nullflowerblush

Nullflowerblush

He/Him
9,779
8,598
The other canon CRT is locked, so let's move onto this one, the one with umph.

My arguments​

Beerus and Champa were stated to be capable of destroying both Universe 6 and 7 if they were to battle, so their combined efforts would resort in the destruction of two universal space-time continua, which is 2-C. However, because it's a joint effort, they're only listed as Low 2-C, which goes against the rules established in the Tiering System.
Note 1:

Due to the fact that the distance between any given number of universes embedded in higher-dimensional / higher-order spaces is currently unknowable, it is impossible to quantify the numerical gap between each one of the subtiers in Tier 2. As such, it is not allowed to upgrade such a character based solely on multipliers. For example, someone twice as strong as a Low 2-C character would still be Low 2-C, and someone infinitely more powerful than a 2-C would not be 2-A.
Click to expand...
If upgrading characters between Tier 2 subtiers through multiplication isn't allowed, why is downgrading characters through division allowed? Logically, the inverse operation wouldn't be allowed as well, but it's used for Beerus and Champa. You could attempt to argue that in Dragon Ball, you can cut their 2-C in half to get Low 2-C based off of this scene, or one of the visual representations of the Multiverse, but if were the case, then couldn't you argue that SSB Kaio-ken Goku after his second limit break in the Tournament of Power is 2-C, since it's two-times (with the Kaio-ken multipliers being accepted) Low 2-C?

Let's say we did know the distance between Universes 6 and 7, and let's assume it's 1.96245897e+25 meters. The diameter of the observable universe is 8.7998051e+26 meters (two observables / 2 = one observable, duh), which is larger than the distance between the two universes by 44.8407087x, so you just couldn't downgrade them to Low 2-C by halving their feat.

Potential counterarguments​

"Beerus was going to destroy Universe 7, and Champa was going to destroy Universe 6."
This is wrong. Nothing implies that they were going to destroy their respective universes at the same time, it was stated that they would destroy both universes.

"They were going to destroy the universes through the Power of Destruction."
The only evidence for this claim is the fact that the energy dome that surrounded the two of them as they clashed had the same appearance as that of Destruction Energy... which is wrong. That's not how Destruction Energy looks. It's just colored this way because that's how the Gods' energies look. Their energy is purple, whereas the Energy of Destruction is dark purple. Also, the energy "barrier"(?) didn't erase Whis and Vados, who aren't resistant to Existence Erasure, and only caused the floor beneath them to crumble and cave in, which proves this wasn't Destruction Energy, just regular energy.

"It was over time, so it wouldn't be 2-C."
They weren't going to destroy the universes in succession/one by one, so even if it were an over time destruction, it's still significantly affecting and destroying two universal space-time continua, Universes 6 and 7. So yeah, it would still be 2-C. Always thought it was odd they have Low Multiversal range, but not Attack Potency.

"It's literally taking the power of one Low 2-C and combining it with another Low 2-C to do something that equals the value of the 2, which is baseline 2-C."
That's going against the Tiering System rules. Also, see the OP.

"Vados said annihilate not destroy."
an·ni·hi·late
  1. destroy utterly; obliterate.

Conclusions​

Because of this, they should be upgraded to 2-C, which would affect the following characters:
Super Saiyan Blue Goku (Post-2nd Ultra Instinct -Sign-), Super Saiyan Blue Evolution Vegeta, God of Destruction Mode Toppo, etc., they should all keep their Low 2-C ratings, since they only upscale from Infinite Zamasu, unless suppressed Jiren is considered superior to the Gods of Destruction.

Also, can we please remove all of Beerus' names, with the exception of "Beerus" and "Lord Beerus"? If I recall correctly, he's only referred to by those names in-universe.

Results​

Agree: Sir_Ovens, Ican'tthinkof1goodname, LordTracer, DarkDragonMedeus (I believe), Duedate8898, 00potato, Gilad_Hyperstar, Rikimarox2, Anchorchompy, Stefano4444
Disagree:
Inconclusive:
 
Last edited:
I surprisingly agree with this. If only to remain consistent with site standards, that feat would in fact be 2-C for both of them individually. Although this may be a unique case since this is the first time such a feat has been performed in more popular fiction. As such, I'm open to ideas.
 
Last edited:
Ionliosite said:
- Kochiarator being considered more solid 2-C than Gogeta Blue
You lost me there.
Click to expand...
I went looking through the Dragon Ball verse page for characters who would scale, and I saw Kochiarator in the Fusions section out the corner of my eye, and he just stuck with me.
 
Kochiarator is just a joke. As for Broly, I feel he'd be "At least Low 2-C, possibly 2-C" rather than definitively 2-C, since he was stomped by Super Saiyan Blue Gogeta, who is debatably in the same tier as Ultra Instinct Goku, and is probably stronger than Beerus.

Also, is it possible to ping the Knowledgeable Members?
 
But if Beerus is straight 2-C, then Broly being “probably stronger” should make him 2-C as well. Gogeta Blue stomping him just puts Gogeta at a higher degree of 2-C.

Only staff can effectively ping people.
 
Oh, in relation to the part of the OP that mentions suppressed Jiren scaling to the GoDs, he (with some effort) scales above the Universe 7 Genkidama, which could be argued to scale since Belmod was sweating over it even before Goku pushed it with SSBKKx20, one of the GoDs complimented its energy, Champa called it dangerous, and iirc, Belmod directly stated that the Genkidama had worried him for a bit.
 
LordTracer said:
Oh, in relation to the part of the OP that mentions suppressed Jiren scaling to the GoDs, he (with some effort) scales above the Universe 7 Genkidama, which could be argued to scale since Belmod was sweating over it even before Goku pushed it with SSBKKx20, one of the GoDs complimented its energy, Champa called it dangerous, and iirc, Belmod directly stated that the Genkidama had worried him for a bit.
Click to expand...
The Gods weren't worried about it, they were just praising it since it was more than what they expected (1:26). And, Champa asked if Goku resisting the Spirit Bomb was dangerous (2:02). Also, Belmod was never sweating, he was rather nonchalant about the whole thing, in fact.
 
Ah. It seems like Belmod was just shocked it even made contact, I guess. I doubt the Universe 7 Spirit Bomb is on the same level as the Gods, seeing as it's made up of energy from Team Universe 7 in their base forms.
 
That’s not how the Genkidama works though. By that logic, the one on Namek shouldn’t have been able to harm Freeza since it was mainly made up of base Goku, Piccolo, Gohan and Krillin’s energy.
 
Nullflowerblush said:
Why would they be Low 2-C? I thought the Universe 7 Spirit Bomb was currently 3-A.
Click to expand...
The Genkidama should be Low 2-C, considering that Jiren, y’know, actually exerted effort in pushing it back.

Your logic would mean C-17 + C-18 + Base Freeza + Earthlings + Base Goku + Base Gohan + Base Piccolo is enough to make Jiren actually try somewhat, when it absolutely isn’t.
 
So, I guess the energy received is an exponential increase. But even then, once Jiren decided to put in effort, he managed to easily push it back, even after Goku used Super Saiyan Blue Kaio-ken x20.
 
Actually he put in some effort before, when he put two hands out and we see what looks like a little energy wave. Then Goku uses Kaioken and launches the Genkidama back, then Jiren puts in more effort and slowly overpowers Goku.
 
Actually, upgrading characters via multipliers is what's taboo, but dividing feats is sometimes considered okay in lack of better options. Like for example, you did a 30 megaton explosion feat with 10 punches, logically it should be more than 3 megatons each, but the fact that it required more than one makes fully scaling to the 30 megatons outright is iffy. But it's against the rules to say that withstanding 10 consecutive hits from 3 megaton punches and treat that as a 30 megaton durability. Same with heating feats, we only use watts for AP, unless the timeframe was less than a second; we just use the full energy yield.

So honestly, this is consistent with our other formulas.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Like for example, you did a 30 megaton explosion feat with 10 punches, logically it should be more than 3 megatons each, but the fact that it required more than one makes fully scaling to the 30 megatons outright is iffy.
Click to expand...
Here’s the issue with this example. That isn’t the same as the difference between Low 2-C and 2-C. The difference between these tiers is unquantifiable, and you can’t go down to Low 2-C just by being 2x weaker than baseline 2-C. If that were the case, the difference between Low 2-C/2-C would only be 2x.
 
Agree, although would the feat be considered baseline or above baseline? The Living World already is meant to be as big as our universe and the Afterlife is around the same size, both of which exist in their own separated dimension/realm.

So like if destroying Universe 7 count as 2x times above Low 2-C, then destroying Universe 7 and Universe 8 would count as 2x times above 2-C.
 
I want someone to actually try and upgrade the super manga characters, because I feel like they should be upgraded
 
So, we have a bunch of agreements for 2-C DBS God-tiers.

As for the Universe 7 Spirit Bomb thing brought up earlier. 109-110 Jiren is stated by Shin to be more powerful than anyone they've faced before in the scene with the Universe 7 Spirit Bomb, putting him above Infinite Zamasu, and is currently used to scale characters like SSB Goku (post-2nd Ultra Instinct), SSB Evolution Goku, etc. to Low 2-C, since they're able to keep up with a less suppressed Jiren. While Goku was in his base, the Spirit Bomb forced Jiren to use two hands. When Goku used SSB Kaio-ken x10, the Spirit Bomb momentarily resisted Jiren's force and halted. And, after Goku used Kaio-ken x20, Jiren seemed to be "struggling" with it, and had to put in actual effort to force it back. At that point, Goku was unable to control it anymore. Because of that, the Universe 7 Spirit Bomb would scale to Low 2-C, and Super Saiyan Kefla would scale to that as well. SSB Goku (post-Ultra Instinct) wouldn't since, even with Kaio-ken, he was one-shot by her Spirit Bomb-level attack.
 
Nullflowerblush said:
and Super Saiyan Kefla would scale to that as well. SSB Goku (post-Ultra Instinct) wouldn't since, even with Kaio-ken, he was one-shot by her Spirit Bomb-level attack.
Click to expand...
This reminds me of something. SSB Goku (Post-UIO1) could harm SSJ Kefla, but the argument could be made that she just adapted to get stronger (since we saw earlier in the tournament that Caulifla has pretty good adaptation and Kefla’s should be greater) or that she’s a glass cannon (considering that later against UIO2, she stated that his attacks were wimpy, and was later stated to be capable of one-shotting him, but she was still getting launched around by the attacks).

So I think SSJ Kefla should be: 3-A, up to Low 2-C to be the most accurate (also Ikari Broly should be something similar).

Also Jiren should probably be like Low 2-C, up to 2-C in his base key.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Brogeefrong
  • Locked
Beerus vs Photoshop Flowey | 4-12-3 (its grace)
2 3 4
Replies
122
Views
7K
EnderLord8
EnderLord8
RigelBR7
Ender Dragon possible universal/2-C upgrade (I NEED ADM PLS)
Replies
39
Views
3K
AStrangeverse
AStrangeverse
MasqueTLDF
  • Locked
DxD Cosmology 2.0
Replies
33
Views
3K
MasqueTLDF
MasqueTLDF
TyphonEX
  • Locked
Simple (but likely controversial) Bayonetta Verse Downgrade
Replies
10
Views
1K
DarkDragonMedeus
DarkDragonMedeus
Vietthai96
Dragon Ball some more additions
2
Replies
40
Views
4K
Vietthai96
Vietthai96
Back
Top