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sphere of gods upgrade 1-a

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Westcoast5005

Westcoast5005

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The sphere of gods as multiple dimensions beneath it:
innumerable dimensions.

Infinitely/endlessly layered

Infinite dimensions worlds beyond worlds.

Parallel worlds and infinite dimensions

Limitless planes of existence.

Infinite number of larger worlds

The red stretches to infinity, and encompasses higher dimensions. This is also confirmed when it states it follows bohm theory of infinite dimensions.

Also in Scott Snyder interview with imaginary axis he confirmed about the 6th dimensions not being spatial dimensions. And also agreed with Tyler statement about infinite dimensions: watch from 28:34.


Onto the sphere of gods:
Multiversity_Map_2400_53ee6b4c22d9a9.11031355.jpg

This map shows the sphere of gods position.

Beyond time and space

Beyond measure of time and space

Again.

A place that transcends place

Hal Jordan had to cross a distanceless and timeless barrier when entering the Phantom Zone,

The phantom zone
Etc. They're many more scans but i feel like have added enough.

Also major characters from the sphere of Gods should get transduality has they transcends order and chaos which represents dual concepts.
Scan.
Sources
dc universe presents issues 2
dc universe presents 1978 issue 26.
 
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In any case, this has been rejected countless times before, and with the upcoming cosmology split, it won't be that high anyway, so even if it does go through - which it won't - it will be here for like a few weeks or so.
 
Confluctor said:
In any case, this has been rejected countless times before, and with the upcoming cosmology split, it won't be that high anyway, so even if it does go through - which it won't - it will be here for like a few weeks or so.
Click to expand...
Actually sphere of the gods and upwards is explicitly unaffected by retcons, so not really.

Also when has this been rejected? Like I wasn’t aware the Sphere of the Gods was this busted until like a year ago and never came across the reasons as to why it is on VSBW.
 
I have seen similar upgrade threads like 3 or 4 times myself. If you search it up, it will show up.

In any case, the cosmology split is different than simple retcons. And in most cosmologies its low 1c or so structure
 
Confluctor said:
I have seen similar upgrade threads like 3 or 4 times myself. If you search it up, it will show up.

In any case, the cosmology split is different than simple retcons. And in most cosmologies its low 1c or so structure
Click to expand...
Also the cosmology split shouldn't affect the sphere of gods upward because it's explained through all eras as being above time and space
 
Westcoast5005 said:
Also the cosmology split shouldn't affect the sphere of gods upward because it's explained through all eras as being above time and space
Click to expand...
but the split effects EVERYTHING, the sphere of gods and everything beyond it. All the way to presence and over void and whatever.

tfw pralaya might become top 3 most op of the verse
 
Greenshifter said:
Actually sphere of the gods and upwards is explicitly unaffected by retcons, so not really.
Click to expand...
The cosmology split isn't about retcons like COIE or Flashpoint it's about writers. It will affect even the highest realms of cosmology including the Void itself. But even if we use composite cosmology Sphere of the Gods won't be 1-A.

There's many scans about the number of dimensions in DC cosmology ranging from 5-D to innumerable-D but there isn't any proof that Sphere of the Gods transcends all of these dimensions.

-"Transcending space and time" statements are Low 1-C at best without further context. For example, in JLA (1997) #30 it was stated that time in Heaven isn't something passes but it clearly exists here as Alan Scott was able to manipulate it. This means that Heaven has a temporal dimension.

-Infinite dimensional Bleed isn't a thing it was always described as a 5-dimensional Bulk which encompasses 4-D brane universes. Pan-dimensional statement is about House of Heroes which observes all universes. Lol in the same comic Bleed was depicted as 5-D again.

*Note that Morrison's Fifth Dimension is clearly a 5-dimensional realm.

-Wonderworld isn't located at the outermost perimeter of entire spacetime. Yes, in JLA #12 it was stated that the Wonderworld is at the outermost perimeter of space-time and in #15 it was stated that Wonderworld is at the spacetime perimer of the universe, but the problem is that in the same JLA series (which was written by Morrison, as well) it was stated that Fifth Dimension which is a 5-D realm is beyond the Creation / Universe which means that Wonderworld is only at the boundaries of 4-D spacetime.

*Morrison uses terms universe, creation and multiverse interchangeably to describe the material world.

So, there isn't anything which proves that Sphere of the Gods transcends infinite dimensions. It only transcends Orrery of Worlds which is a Low 1-C structure.

Some supportive evidences against a 1-A Sphere of the Gods:

-Monitor Sphere which is a higher realm than the Sphere of the Gods also has a temporal dimension which formed beginnings and endings here (yeah it was described as clockwork patterns in the sky but it's clear that time in the Monitor Sphere works like a temporal dimension).

-Captain Adam (who contacted with the Overvoid before this statement) stated that the Monitor Sphere is a higher dimension.
 
LuciferDC099 said:
The cosmology split isn't about retcons like COIE or Flashpoint it's about writers. It will affect even the highest realms of cosmology including the Void itself. But even if we composite cosmology Sphere of the Gods won't be 1-A.

There's many scans about the number of dimensions in DC cosmology ranging from 5-D to innumerable-D but there isn't any proof that Sphere of the Gods transcends all of these dimensions.

-"Transcending space and time" statements are Low 1-C at best without further context. For example, in JLA (1997) #30 it was stated that time in Heaven isn't something passes but it clearly exists here as Alan Scott was able to manipulate it. This means that Heaven has a temporal dimension.

-Infinite dimensional Bleed isn't a thing it was always described as a 5-dimensional Bulk which encompasses 4-D brane universes. Pan-dimensional statement is about House of Heroes which observes all universes. Lol in the same comic Bleed was depicted as 5-D again.

*Note that Morrison's Fifth Dimension is clearly a 5-dimensional realm.

-Wonderworld isn't located at the outermost perimeter of entire spacetime. Yes, in JLA #12 it was stated that the Wonderworld is at the outermost perimeter of space-time and in #15 it was stated that Wonderworld is at the spacetime perimer of the universe, but the problem is that in the same JLA series (which was written by Morrison, as well) it was stated that Fifth Dimension which is a 5-D realm is beyond the Creation / Universe which means that Wonderworld is only at the boundaries of 4-D spacetime.

*Morrison uses terms universe, creation and multiverse interchangeably to describe the material world).

So, there isn't anything which proves that Sphere of the Gods transcends infinite dimensions. It only transcends Orrery of Worlds which is a Low 1-C structure.

Some supportive evidences against a 1-A Sphere of the Gods:

-Monitor Sphere which is a higher realm than the Sphere of the Gods also has a temporal dimension which formed beginnings and endings here (yeah it was described as clockwork patterns in the sky but it's clear that time in the Monitor Sphere works like a temporal dimension).

-Captain Adam (who contacted with the Overvoid before this statement) stated that the Monitor Sphere is a higher dimension.
Click to expand...
The proof that the sphere transcends the dimensions is that transcends every measurement of space time which would include the infinite and inummerable dimensions

Monitor sphere being an higher realm does not contradict the sphere of gods 1-a, and read your scan first, they literally state their world was timeless until people from the orrery introduced it. Also it could be an archetypal time that transcends normal spatiotemporal dimensions.


Like I said monitor sphere being higher dimensions isn't a counter. It just means it's an higher archetypal dimensions which still makes sphere of gods 1-a.
 
Westcoast5005 said:
The proof that the sphere transcends the dimensions is that transcends every measurement of space time which would include the infinite and inummerable dimensions
Click to expand...
Heaven also has the same statements as New Genesis and Apokolips (beyond space and time etc.) but it has a temporal dimension. So, yeah it isn't enough for a 1-A rating.
Westcoast5005 said:
Monitor sphere being an higher realm does not contradict the sphere of gods 1-a, and read your scan first, they literally state their world was timeless until people from the orrery introduced it. Also it could be an archetypal time that transcends normal spatiotemporal dimensions.
Click to expand...
So? We don't even saw any Monitor before contamination except the Dax Novu lol. The point is that post-contamination Monitor Sphere transcends the SoG and it has a temporal dimension. It works like a temporal dimension because it formed beginnings and endings here.
Westcoast5005 said:
Like I said monitor sphere being higher dimensions isn't a counter. It just means it's an higher archetypal dimensions which still makes sphere of gods 1-a.
Click to expand...
Being a higher dimension literally contradicts the 1-A rating.
Westcoast5005 said:
Also don't bring mxy fifth dimension into this because mxy dimension isn't mathematical dimension.
Click to expand...
Morrison's Fifth Dimension is 5-D.
 
Iirc the cosmology split will separate cosmologies based on writers, so you’re probably better off trying to prove this using only 1 author, it’d probably be your best bet
 
LuciferDC099 said:
Heaven also has the same statements as New Genesis and Apokolips (beyond space and time etc.) but it has a temporal dimension. So, yeah it isn't enough for a 1-A rating.

So? We don't even saw any Monitor before contamination except the Dax Novu lol. The point is that post-contamination Monitor Sphere transcends the SoG and it has a temporal dimension. It works like a temporal dimension because it formed beginnings and endings here.

Being a higher dimension literally contradicts the 1-A rating.

Morrison's Fifth Dimension is 5-D.
Click to expand...
First of all show scans of heaven being a temporal dimension.

Also having time doesn't mean it can't be 1-a because the time could platonic/archetypal.

Monitor sphere being an higher realm isn't a contradiction because from the sphere of gods the realms become archetypal and they become metaphysical dimensions.

Also grant Morrison fifth dimension wasn't referring to mxy dimension.
 
Westcoast5005 said:
First of all show scans of heaven being a temporal dimension.
Click to expand...
Heaven isn't a temporal dimension but it has a temporal dimension. I posted scans above please read carefully.
Westcoast5005 said:
Also having time doesn't mean it can't be 1-a because the time could platonic/archetypal.

Monitor sphere being an higher realm isn't a contradiction because from the sphere of gods the realms become archetypal and they become metaphysical dimensions.
Click to expand...
1-A realms can't have temporal dimensions they should be beyond all temporal dimensions. Also those archetypal, platonic etc. things aren't 1-A anymore.
Westcoast5005 said:
Also grant Morrison fifth dimension wasn't referring to mxy dimension.
Click to expand...
Lol.
 
LuciferDC099 said:
Heaven isn't a temporal dimension but it has a temporal dimension. I posted scans above please read carefully.

1-A realms can't have temporal dimensions they should be beyond all temporal dimensions. Also those archetypal, platonic etc. things aren't 1-A anymore.

Lol.
Click to expand...
Heaven doesn't have time it literally says so

1-a realms can have temporal dimension if the time transcends the lower realms time. Also platonic stuff are still 1-a if they are proof that back it up.

The last scan you sent doesn't prove Morrison was talking about mxy realm at all.

And you saying 1-a realm can't have time even if you archetypal is stupid because that also means 1-a men shouldn't have space because they transcends space and time.
 
Westcoast5005 said:
Heaven doesn't have time it literally says so
Click to expand...
Zauriel states that time isn't something that passes in Heaven and Alan says that "whatever it does, Zauriel, we can make it go faster here". Then he literally does it which means that Heaven has a time which is different from our fourth dimension but it's a temporal dimension.
Westcoast5005 said:
1-a realms can have temporal dimension if the time transcends the lower realms time. Also platonic stuff are still 1-a if they are proof that back it up.
Click to expand...
Platonic stuff isn't enough for 1-A anymore.
Westcoast5005 said:
The last scan you sent doesn't prove Morrison was talking about mxy realm at all.
Click to expand...
Lol the character in that scan is Mr. Mxyzptlk...pls read Action Comics (2011) #15.
Westcoast5005 said:
And you saying 1-a realm can't have time even if you archetypal is stupid because that also means 1-a men shouldn't have space because they transcends space and time.
Click to expand...
Yes, 1-A realms transcend all dimensions of space and time. Also i already proved that time in the Monitor Sphere works like a temporal dimension.
 
1-A | Outerverse level: Characters who can significantly affect, create and/or destroy realms or states that fully transcend infinitely-layered hierarchies and/or dimensional levels on a conceptual or existential level, normally being portrayed as entirely external abstractions that lie outside of the applications of spatiotemporal dimensionality as a constant defined by physics on any level, even compared to infinite or uncountably infinite dimensions, usually by perceiving them as akin to fiction or something similarly insignificant.

1-A completely transcends all dimensions of space-time so 1-A realms can't have a temporal dimension.
 
LuciferDC099 said:
Zauriel states that time isn't something that passes in Heaven and Alan says that "whatever it does, Zauriel, we can make it go faster here". Then he literally does it which means that Heaven has a time which is different from our fourth dimension but it's a temporal dimension.

Platonic stuff isn't enough for 1-A anymore.

Lol the character in that scan is Mr. Mxyzptlk...pls read Action Comics (2011) #15.

Yes, 1-A realms transcend all dimensions of space and time. Also i already proved that time in the Monitor Sphere works like a temporal dimension.
Click to expand...
Lol in that scan they weren't in heaven so him manipulating time in that realm doesn't mean heaven as a temporal dimension.

Also in the monitor sphere case they didn't have time until it was introduced. It being introduced doesn't make the realm stop being 1-a.
 
Westcoast5005 said:
Lol in that scan they weren't in heaven so him manipulating time in that realm doesn't mean heaven as a temporal dimension.
Click to expand...
Pls read comics itself lol not just look at the scans. All those events happened in the Heaven.
Westcoast5005 said:
Also in the monitor sphere case they didn't have time until it was introduced. It being introduced doesn't make the realm stop being 1-a.
Click to expand...
Dude, i didn't say anything about pre-contamination Monitor Sphere. The point is that post-contamination Monitor Sphere transcends the SoG (according to the Multiversity Map) and it has a temporal dimension.
 
LuciferDC099 said:
Pls read comics itself lol not just look at the scans. All those events happened in the Heaven.

Dude, i didn't say anything about pre-contamination Monitor Sphere. The point is that post-contamination Monitor Sphere transcends the SoG (according to the Multiversity Map) and it has a temporal dimension.
Click to expand...
Give me the name of the comic.
 
Confluctor and LuciferDC099 are correct. We are definitely not going to accept this, and I think that a discussion rule is a good idea. I would appreciate if either of you can create the wording for one.

After that, we can close this thread.
 
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