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Speed upgrade for Kizaru and High/Top tiers of One piece??

Damage is right about sensing Robin. Anyway, the Observation Haki is confirmed and it should be added.
 
AstralKing7 said:
Let's not forget Sabo as well and Doffy should possibly have it as well
Click to expand...
Doffy isn't even confirmed to have regular Observation Haki, let alone proficient usage of it.
 
IIRC Cin said that Doffy has Observation. When Luffy Rhino Schneider'd him Doffy covered his face with Armament despite being blitzed and attacked from behind.
 
I don't think that alone guarantees he has Observation Haki. Might just be genuine reflexes.

Databook should clear it up when it reaches him.
 
Here it's the justification:

  • Kenbunshoku Haki (Color of Observation or Mantra): Doflamingo has displayed a proficient level of this type of Haki. He was able to watch over the entire Flower Hill with his Haki, suggesting at least a few kilometers in range, and is capable of actively seeing briefly into the future. He was capable of keeping up with Gear 4th Luffy despite the latter's large advantage in speed, and reacted to a statement Fujitora was going to make well before he finished it.
 
Strange. I could have sworn I was involved in a thread at one point that removed it.

Anyway, I disagree with pretty much most of that. It's not enough evidence for him to have Observation Haki in my opinion but I'll not force the issue in this thread because it isn't the place for it.
 
If the Databook doesn't say anything about it then it should be removed unless we find better proofs of it.

Right now let's keep it there to avoid edits that aren't necessary. We have a lot of work with the other stuff we didn't already added and removed from the profiles.
 
Agreed.

I appreciate your analysis up above of characters. Based on the information we have now, can you narrow it down to the characters that should scale?
 
Right now we could give the rating to seven characters. The rest of them are in an uncertain state and they'd probably get updated later.

Those seven characters are Whitebeard, Marco, Luffy, Katakuri, Shanks, Mihawk and Rayleigh of course. This is based on characters who has shown a high level of proficiency, characters who scales to them and those who directly faced Kizaru in combat.

With this we could use Rayleigh's feat once again. I think it was something related to 20% SoL but I'm not sure.

Edit: BTW I think we should make a calc of Marco blocking the YNM. It should be another supporting feat for this case.
 
Damage was right about that point. Even though it would seem to be apparent to us that top tiers should have mastery over Haki, we can't use it since that would be giving them something they haven't yet actually shown which wouldn't be fair (it'd be like giving someone King's Haki because they were a leader and beat Luffy). I say that we just discuss the people confirmed by the databooks and decide how they are affected by the new information in order to know what we'll do later on if confirmation does arise.
 
Thanks Calaca.

Also, to just avoid any headaches in the future, does anyone have access to the raws for the databook?

Because this line: "His ability is very effective for both evasion and movement, so it's impossible to grasp even a single of his movements without being a proficient Haki user."

Makes it seems more like reactions that would be upgraded instead of both combat speed and reactions. I know not everyone agrees with that, but I'd like to double-check how the raws put it.
 
The only ones who scale should be confirmed CoO users who are >= Rayleigh and should scale only in reactions with precog(like Spiderman) Luffy definetly doesn't scale yet, especially since he has been blitzed by Kaido, who is slower than Kizaru
 
Again, Kaido doesn't scale to Luffy's Kenbunshoku for a simple reason: Luffy's wasn't using Kenbunshoku at all. In order to use it the user must be concentrated and calm. That wasn't the case when Luffy rushed at him totally enraged after watching Kaido supposedly killed his friends and heard he killed Tama.

If the reactions strictly comes from Kenbunshoku then Kaido isn't faster than Luffy with the precog because he wasn't using it.
 
Luffy still has no feats of being able to counter Kizaru's light though. Also, Rayleigh's feat cannot be used, since he has CoO , which means he was aim-dodging. At best he might get LS reactions via precog
 
What do you think proficient CoO usage is? If seeing several seconds in the future isn't then IDK what could be.

>Also, Rayleigh's feat cannot be used, since he has CoO , which means he was aim-dodging. At best he might get LS reactions via precog

That's the point I'm arguing. First of all Spider-Man has a speed rating coming from his Spider-Sense which is the same thing as CoO. Second, I'm arguing for Rayleigh having Relativistic reactions (and arguably combat) coming from his precog.
 
Kizaru himself should have LS reactions without CoO, he is able to stop accurately whilst traveling in his light form.
 
Ivankov was able to react to Kizaru Light beam aswell, he protect Luffy in last sec with death wink.

Marco and Katakuri should have it aswell, most like Fujitora too.
 
> Ivankov was able to react to Kizaru Light beam aswell, he protect Luffy in last sec with death wink.

When did this happen?
 
@Calaca Vs I actually disagree with Luffy not using Observation Haki against Kaido. In the last panel that Luffy is conscious, we can see from his face that he knew what was coming, but couldn't react. Luffy must've known what was about to happen, otherwise Oda wouldn't have wasted a panel showing Luffy's shocked face.
 
It doesn't matter cause Kaido still scales above Luffy in speed by a whole damn lot

Damn when I think about it Kaido is faster than Kizaru technically. If Luffy can keep up with Kizaru some with haki and Luffy gets blitzed by Kaido that means Kaido is faster than Kizaru

Seriously tho it makes sense that Yonkos are stronger than admirals by a lot
 
EverWrink said:
@Calaca Vs I actually disagree with Luffy not using Observation Haki against Kaido. In the last panel that Luffy is conscious, we can see from his face that he knew what was coming, but couldn't react. Luffy must've known what was about to happen, otherwise Oda wouldn't have wasted a panel showing Luffy's shocked face.
Click to expand...
I honestly think that he was completely shocked that his attacks had absolutely no effect and that he was emotionally very agitated and therefore had no rest or concentration to use his Haki properly.
 
Current Luffy has no feats of keeping up with Kizaru. Assuming Kaido is faster than Kizaru is ridiculous.
 
Aren't we assuming Luffy can keep up with Kizaru because of haki?? That's what we're doing but now if we're not then he shouldn't scale
 
@EverWrink

What BlackPain said is correct. Luffy wasn't calmed down at all. He rushed against Kaido in an enraged state and when Kaido stood up and went 'sigh' Luffy knew he was f***ed up. That's not Haki. That's desperation coming from the realization that your best form with strongest attacks don't do jack against an enemy so hard that he's even bored.

Kaido blitzed no-Haki Luffy. The MHS, higher is good right now.

And we're assuming that level of proficiency is more than enough to keep up with Kizaru. Marco apparently doesn't have that level and he still reacted to Kizaru. It's a safe assumption but if proven otherwise then we could remove it.

Right now we have 5 characters scaling to Kizaru if we discard Luffy and Katakuri.
 
Also I found more proof that Law has observation haki

The first time he saved Luffy and they wine to Amazon Loki, one of the women shot an arrow at him and he had his eyes closed and the arrow missed his face so closely tho
 
If he didn't moved his head and the arrow missed then the woman failed. Law just didn't notice about it.
 
You need to say it. Also put the scan. I remember the scene from the anime but not from the manga.
 
I don't know if it was in the manga I saw it in the anime as well

Wondering if someone who read the whole manga currently remembers it in the manga
 
I'll be honest, I don't remember anyone shooting an arrow at Law but from the sound of it this scene occurred years ago, if it occurred at all.
 
@Calaca Vs I interpreted it as Luffy's future sight as well. Why would Luffy think he "f***ed up" based on just seeing Kaido. Plenty of times in the series, he attacked people he couldn't damage. That was future sight, he knew what would happen next.
 
It's not the same. This time Luffy attacked Kaido with his strongest attacks (despite no KKG nor KC) and he was wheezing afterwards. And even then Kaido withstood the attacks like they was nothing.

And again, Luffy wasn't calmed. Staying calm is a must for Kenbunshoku to properly work. Look at Katakuri. When he was enraged against Luffy the latter capitalized that because he couldn't see the future.
 
Yeah that's the scene. It's obviously observation haki. Now we just need it in the manga but since he is confirmed to have it in the DB we should use the anime as secondary canon
 
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