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Speed Equalized: Problems and Definition

Speed equal doesn't null them

So they get a speed advantage.

I think it's something to take on a case by case ( some characters only boost their movement speed not reactions or attack like say Amakasu Masahiko) but for the most time it should be for all type of speeds (movement+reaction+attack)
 
But getting nerfed down to human level would severely gimp many characters. They'd only be able to jump a couple feet high and immediately fall back down whereas in their own series they may basically ignore gravity by moving and jumping at high speeds.
 
Either that or people just ignore speed all together, which is what most commonly happens.
 
... Ugh. Just think of it like this: Some abilities are basically their version of a gun. Just because speed is equal doesn't mean that the gun will suddenly be slowed down to your level.

The ONLY thing that gets equalized is YOUR speed. Not the speed of your abilities, techniques and racial abilities or whatever.
 
If two people have guns and one is fast enough to make the match impossible, does speed equal suddenly affect the gun as well? Of course not.

Goku's Kamehameha won't suddenly drop below subsonic if he were in this bizarro match of facing a subsonic opponent who just happens to be his equal in the rest.
 
But that would make a character with danmaku still blitz the enemy by attack speed alone, it should be scaled down relativly to theire speed
 
Kinda the point, innit? Otherwise, guns cease to be of any use. Christopher, a character who is in the hypersonic range, has a light speed attack. Do we equalize that as well? No, we don't.
 
Then you agree with us. If the attack blitzes the user, it blitzes the opponent basically. Danmaku or not, gun or not, right?
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Sorry for a giant necro, but was this ever applied? This did seem important if this effects 90% of the Vs Threads.
Click to expand...
I also would like to know this.
 
What were the conclusions here?
 
Case by case as always. But instead of assuming that we just "Ignore speed" there were several suggestions, but we basically just only equalize combat speed and everything else is a variable case.

There are the three suggestions stated in the OP; change nothing about movement speed/Flight speed/Travel speed, attack speed of projectiles, ect. But the three suggestions was change combat speed to be equal to the slower character, faster character, or normal human level.

But the comments suggestion something else. But basically agreed that only combat speed is specifically equalized. Characters with much lower movement speed then their combat speed still have much lower movement speed than both their own and opponents combat speed. Characters with the same movement speed as their combat speed have it equal to combat as well. Characters with projectiles faster than their own combat speed have projectiles faster than both character' combat speeds.

For example of the above suggestion, character A has Superhuman movement speed, Massively Hypersonic combat speed, and Speed of Light attack speed with projectiles. And Character B has a pretty solid speed rating; could be Normal human or Massively FTL+, but applies to all categories of speed. What happens in this scenario is that both combatant will have X combat speed, but Character A is much slower in terms of movement speed and attack speed of their projectiles are much faster than either character's combat speed.

Reading the comments, I think it's the 3rd and 4th paragraphs above that was generally agreed upon. But I may ask AssaltWaffle to comment here again since he was the OP.
 
You can ask Assaltwaffle to comment again, yes. Versus matchups are not my area.
 
I suppose?

The main thing that wasn't agreed on is whenever wee equalize speed to the faster, slower or our prespective.

The fact that everything is relative to the combat speed like bullets and such seems to have been agreed on by everyone.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
But the comments suggestion something else. But basically agreed that only combat speed is specifically equalized. Characters with much lower movement speed then their combat speed still have much lower movement speed than both their own and opponents combat speed. Characters with the same movement speed as their combat speed have it equal to combat as well. Characters with projectiles faster than their own combat speed have projectiles faster than both character' combat speeds.

For example of the above suggestion, character A has Superhuman movement speed, Massively Hypersonic combat speed, and Speed of Light attack speed with projectiles. And Character B has a pretty solid speed rating; could be Normal human or Massively FTL+, but applies to all categories of speed. What happens in this scenario is that both combatant will have X combat speed, but Character A is much slower in terms of movement speed and attack speed of their projectiles are much faster than either character's combat speed.
Click to expand...
I think these two paragraphs are what the general consensus is here now.
 
Well, versus threads are not my area, so I am afraid that I am not of much help here.
 
What I think it should be equalized is the Combat Speed (as said above), or to be more specific, the reaction / thinking speed.

The stomps do not happen just because one is faster. They happen because one of the warriors is able to perform a variety of actions in a short amount of time, and the opponent doesn't have a way to even THINK how to counter his speed.

That's what's lacking and what's causing the speed stomps: The lack of reaction from opponents.

Using Dragon Ball as example -

Speed Stomps are like Vegeta VS Pui Pui. The opponent doesn't have a time to react, and there isn't a "real" fight taking place (ignore the fact that Vegeta oneshots Pui Pui, even if he needed 2 or 3 more attacks, he would have blitzed him by pure speed). The two warriors barely interact, and that's why it's annoying.

How it should be: More similar to Gohan and Frieza VS Dyspo. Dyspo is faster and is recognized as such, but his "combat mind" isn't traveling 10x times faster than his opponents, he doesn't blitz them by attacking them with 20 attacks per second. That's why the Universe 7 team has been able to prepare a counterattack, and that sounds like a more proper fight.


I just think that Fast Combat Speed isn't equal to Light Speed Thinking, at least in FICTION that's how it works.
 
Simply equalizing reaction speed will not be a thing. It has such massive repercussions over a characters fighting style, and would limit them to such a ridiculous extent that it's actively worse than saying "ignore speed".

Making someone move billions of times faster than they think causes so many problems, and misses the whole point of speed equal.
 
Speed equal simply means they are equal in all aspects of speed, whatever form that speed takes... Until the boosts start popping up or some reality warping that increases it. Or, you know, their special moves which tend to be faster than they are and the like.

I really don't get why there is so much nitpicking being done when the issue is just that simple.
 
Ricsi-viragosi said:
Because that makes guns ridicolously weak.
Click to expand...
So... Why not just stay away from characters that use guns in matches where bullets are not... Well, useful? Alternatively, just make it so that the bullets are still relevant if you really want to force the issue with gun-wielding characters.
 
You cannot stay away from guns when most street level characters heavily rely on them.

And why would only bullets be faster? Why wouldn't an ability made to be faster also behave that way? It was explained in the OP why just saying ignore speed isn't good.
 
As for projectiles I think we are supposed to treat them as being proportionally as fast as their user.

About equalizing high and low, I always thought this was agreed to be a standard long ago, where the OP is to mention which approach will be used for the specific matchup. But then again I can't remember anyone actually doing this in any recent vs thread...
 
I never said we should ignore speed boosts. I explicitly pointed out that the only exception when speed equalized is a thing is when the character uses something to enhance their base speed. And that if projectiles are such a big deal to the character, then they should be treated as significantly faster than either of the characters if you insist on using a character that relies on guns on someone far faster.

The whole gun thing is just a mess, really.
 
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