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[Speed Equalized] Chara vs Super Dimentio

to be perfectly honest, I don't know. they seem pretty equal and the only thing that would give someone an edge would be chara with save/load but that would require chara to die. so inconclusive from me
 
Chara should lose this tbh, she is strong, but Super Dimento literally could beat her with mid difficulty. But if Chara can reset, I'd say CHara
 
I say Super Dimentio. Chara could only save and load while fused with Frisk's soul and relied on the Determination of their soul. Both have shown on screen multiverse busting but Chara needed Frisk's soul to do that while Super Dimentio did it himself with his own power. Does Frisk's soul count as part of their regular equipment? If so then it would be a stalemate since she has no attacks to hurt Dimentio unless her Determination rises to the point they override his invulnerability. In that state, Super Dimentio could repeatedly kill her but she would end up resetting with Frisk's soul over and over.
 
Thats 1 vote for Chara, Dimentio, and Inconclusive. Anyone else?
 
Super Dimentio, He Has Tons Of Powers And Nearly Destroyed Everything, What Does Chara Have? A Knife. Besides, They Can't Do Anything Unless Someone Has High LV, Is There A LV Person Who Has Anthing To Do With This Fight? No, No There Isn't, And Said Knife Destroyed Only One Timeline That You Were Stuck In Unless You Gave Chara Your Soul And Go To Another Timeline. Also Super Dimentio Could Destroy Anything He Pleases, Chara, It's Time To Face The Real God Of Hyperdeath.
 
Agentyoung28 said:
Dimentio, I LOVE Undertale (See What I Did There?) But I REALLY Love Mario More.
Click to expand...
You...cant really use favoritism as an explanation as to why a character would win...
 
Agentyoung28 said:
Super Dimentio, He Has Tons Of Powers And Nearly Destroyed Everything, What Does Chara Have? A Knife.
Click to expand...
Said Knife was used to destroy the whole game and was filled in countless timelines :p

Going for Chara, looking through the profiles, Dimentio doesn't have anything to keep Chara from Saving and Loading over and over until they win.
 
I'd say Chara, for similar reasons as MarvelFanatic. Plus, can't Chara just keep SAVEing and LOADing to figure out all of Super Dimentio's abilities and figure out a way to counter them?
 
unless Dimentio's brain washing is really powerful, I don't think he has a way to win, Chara can just keep saving and loading, and that's only if Dimentio can even kill someone who has type 8 immortality like Chara.
 
Agentyoung28 said:
Super Dimentio, He Has Tons Of Powers And Nearly Destroyed Everything, What Does Chara Have? A Knife. Besides, They Can't Do Anything Unless Someone Has High LV, Is There A LV Person Who Has Anthing To Do With This Fight? No, No There Isn't, And Said Knife Destroyed Only One Timeline That You Were Stuck In Unless You Gave Chara Your Soul And Go To Another Timeline. Also Super Dimentio Could Destroy Anything He Pleases, Chara, It's Time To Face The Real God Of Hyperdeath.
Click to expand...
It's been expilcitly pointed out that Chara destroyed the enitre game, not just one timeline, in UT one SAVE= one timeline. If that weren't true, this would be a stomp and be closed immediately. Chara took the Player 's SOUL after the Genocide route, which easily puts them at 2-B.

LV is something anything gains through killing.

EXP (Execution Points)- Used to quantify the number of people you've killed.

LV/LOVE (Level of Violence)- Shows someone's capacity to hurt others.

Considering Dimentio tried to destroy "all the worlds", that means he has high LV and EXP, which means Chara can possibly Possess him.

Dimentio has some good hax, but nothing that can kill Chara. They have Mid-Godly Regenerationn and have Type 8 Immortality, meaning Dimentio can't really kill Chara, and that's not touching Chara's ability to SAVE and LOAD over and over until they learn Dimentio's moves and work around them to beat him.
 
Blahblah9755 said:
unless Dimentio's brain washing is really powerful, I don't think he has a way to win, Chara can just keep saving and loading, and that's only if Dimentio can even kill someone who has type 8 immortality like Chara.
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I take it your voting for Chara? If so, Chara now has an advantage, unless I miscounted votes.
 
Mmm... i'm leaning towards Dimentio. To my knowledge, Chara has no real Mind maniuplation resistance, and that's one of Dimentio's key attacks.
 
Aparajita said:
Mmm... i'm leaning towards Dimentio. To my knowledge, Chara has no real Mind maniuplation resistance, and that's one of Dimentio's key attacks.
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It's been a while since I played SPM, but I don't think Super Dimentio uses Mind Manipulation. Regular Dimentio used it to possess Luigi for the purpose of making him "Mr. L" in order to later become Super Dimentio, but at no other points.

I'm also not sure it would work on a metaphysical concept.
 
Does anybody know what levels of 2-B each characters are (as in the specific number of space times each can bust)

While I forgot Dimentio's exact number, I am pretty sure it wasn't one with over 200 digits or something. It seems like this might be a stomp in Chara's favor.
 
200 digits? I thought we didn't know the exact number of Chara's but just that it was every single timeline in the game.
 
@Blah According to the profile, Chara destroyed a countless amount of timelines. And the fact that an unseptuagintillion or a number with over 216 digits is countable within Undertale is used as a way to justify the 2-B status.
 
The 216 nines is just an example, as the number of timelines destroyed was supposed to have been countless many, while that number was still considered in some manner quantifiable. I don't believe either have an exact number.
 
Dimentio with the Dark Hearts becomes a Metaphysical concept, and it took only the concept of Love to defeat him. I know that's NLF, but it puts into perspective that Dimentio may be above what Chara can handle. Can Chara defeat an abstract concept?

Furthermore, couldn't he lock Chara into a dimension, shift it into the D-Dimension where he's practically invincable?

Mario was only able to fight Dimentio in the D-Dimension because of the Pure Hearts, which radiate love, the one weakness to Super-Dimentio.
 
IIRC, they both destroyed the Multiverses of their world, but idk how many. The worlds Mario visits are below 1000, but I'd assume the amount of worlds in the Marioverse is probably similar to our own (10^500), but i don't know about that, but Dimentio was going to destroy "all worlds"
 
Fllflourine said:
IIRC, they both destroyed the Multiverses of their world, but idk how many. The worlds Mario visits are below 1000, but I'd assume the amount of worlds in the Marioverse is probably similar to our own (10^500), but i don't know about that, but Dimentio was going to destroy "all worlds"
Click to expand...
I thought the worlds in Paper Mario was supposedly infinite in number, as each page was potentially another universe.
 
Aparajita said:
Fllflourine said:
IIRC, they both destroyed the Multiverses of their world, but idk how many. The worlds Mario visits are below 1000, but I'd assume the amount of worlds in the Marioverse is probably similar to our own (10^500), but i don't know about that, but Dimentio was going to destroy "all worlds"
Click to expand...
I thought the worlds in Paper Mario was supposedly infinite in number, as each page was potentially another universe.
Click to expand...
Do you have a link to a video, or a Mario wiki article? Not sure what you mean by "page", and I thought that they both destroyed 10^500, which led me to make this thread.
 
@Azzy I know Chara doesn't have an exact number, however if there is even the possibility of being able to bust a number beyond the 216 number (which the profile seems to imply that there is) then I don't think Dimentio stands a slight chance.
 
Aparajita said:
Dimentio with the Dark Hearts becomes a Metaphysical concept, and it took only the concept of Love to defeat him. I know that's NLF, but it puts into perspective that Dimentio may be above what Chara can handle. Can Chara defeat an abstract concept?
Furthermore, couldn't he lock Chara into a dimension, shift it into the D-Dimension where he's practically invincable?

Mario was only able to fight Dimentio in the D-Dimension because of the Pure Hearts, which radiate love, the one weakness to Super-Dimentio.
Click to expand...
Dimentio being "practically invincible" in Dimension D sounds like NLF otherwise other guys like EGD couldn't beat him. It also doesn't give us any indication of how more powerful he is there.

Him having a certain weakness does not mean he is an abstract concept. Not to mention Chara is a Metaphysical Concept themselves and cannot be erased unless the feelings they embody are erased completely and unlike Dimentio, they have no specifed weakness once they reach their absolute, and considering Dimentio himself embody those feelings Chara thrives on, Chara isn't really going anywhere. And that's not touching their Determination which makes them come back as many times as they want.
 
MarvelFanatic119 said:
Dimentio being "practically invincible" in Dimension D sounds like NLF otherwise other guys like EGD couldn't beat him. It also doesn't give us any indication of how more powerful he is there.
Click to expand...
Actually, it does. He's 256 times stronger than his normal, multiverse-busting self. Every story is riddled with NLF and PIS.
 
Aparajita said:
Actually, it does. He's 256 times stronger than his normal, multiverse-busting self. Every story is riddled with NLF and PIS.
Click to expand...
Where did you exactly get that multiplier? The Paper Mario Wiki? Doesn't it also say people in Dimension D also receive that Multiplier? Not to mention it doesn't change the fact that:

-Chara can come back as many times as they want

-Dimentio can't put them down for good, due to their Regen and their Abstract nature

-Determination would help Chara become powerful enough to match Dimentio, even in Dimension D

-Multiverse level times 256 is still Multiverse level.
 
Is a Close one but I say that Super Dimentio wins... He would have the advantage in the Dimension D. Also most of his abilities may Surpass Chara's abilities, However Chara may deliver the most deadly hits, but I repeat Dimentio's abilities will give him the victory. My vote goes to Dimentio.
 
For the record, to activate Save/Load ability the user doesn't need to die. Photoshop Flowey used it mid-battle with Frisk(BTW the souls didn't grant that power, they don't have that ability), since Frisk can use the same Save/Load ability (There is no proof they can't) most likely they can use that ability mid-battle.
 
Because of their Save/Load and seemingly infinite durability, I say Chara. Also, I am not certain Super Dimentio's RW is strong enough to hit Chara since they have Acasuality . It would be good if someone claired that up.
 
I say Super Dimentio due to invulnerability and the Fact that he controls the Dimension D. I think that Chara's SAVE/LOAD ability will put a fight against Dimentio, But After seeing all his abilities I believe that Dimentio takes it so... Dimentio.
 
I'm not sure about using save/load in battle, because you as the player are able to reset and go back to a past save at literally any time, which is technically canon, but Sans seemed to be under the impression that he could keep you trapped there without you being able to reset. Would it just be that Sans didn't know Frisk's ability as well as he thought?

Also I don't think acausality would make you immune to anything but causality manipulation and past self attacking with the way we use it here. Although theoretically acausality could mean no causes are able to effect you, but I believe we refer to that as omnilock here.

Also could those who've voted for Dimentio give an actual reason how Dimentio could actually put down Chara instead of just saying "Dimentio's abilities will let him win" and not explaining why? So far the only actual valid point anyone's brought up to beat Chara's Regenerationn is mind control, a point which Azzy rebutted already and no one has backed anymore.

Dimension D would at best lead to a stalemate as Chara has type 8 immortality that basically makes him unkillable as long as there are beings with game-like stats in the multiverse, which Dimentio is one of. Even if Dimentio somehow stopped having game stats, he still can't kill Chara due to not having a way to collapse a 5D structure on him, or having a way to banish him to a lower layer of non-existence, which afaik are the only ways to actually kill someone with mid-godly immortality. And even if he did meet those two conditions, Chara can save, load, and reset.

Not to mention if Dimension D was actually enough to beat him, Chara could just reset to escape it, and since Chara essentially feeds off the stats of all beings in the multiverse, the stronger Dimentio gets, the stronger Chara gets.

Edit: Sorry for the massive wall of text
 
@Blahblah9755

Woah dude, calm down. Let me clear your mind, paragraph by paragraph.

1- No, he didn't think that way. If you look at his in-battle dialogue again, you'll see that he tried to make the player give up. He wanted to make the player quit before the player kills him in a try. If you want to see, you can look the quotes here: http://undertale.wikia.com/wiki/Sans/In_Battle

2-Yeah, I misunderstood what it meant. Not that it matters. Also yeah, the thing you mentioned is Omnilock.

Acausality: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Acausality

Omnilock: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Omnilock

3-That's how some people do it. Also about the "mind control" thing, since Chara has "Determination" they just wont let SD control them. If he tries, something like this will happen:

-Super Dimentio tried to control Chara's mind...

-...Chara refused. Because they were too determined.

4-Chara wouldn't need to use their SAVE/LOAD ability since they can "nope" all the effects you said by their determination. For why, look 3rd part. Because of that, I don't think there is any way SD can even harm Chara besides physical strikes. But I am not a Paper Mario fan, TBH.

5-SD can't beat them. The battle will only end with Chara's win. But if you read up to here, I guess you already know that.

No problem.


PS: Chara is referred by "they" since their gender is unknown.
 
I am calm, I apologize if it appeared otherwise

1. Didn't Sans think he could cause you to quit out of boredom? If he considered you to be able to reset at any time he wouldn't have thought that.

3. Honestly it's kind of annoying how people will just be like "oh yeah he has more abilities so he wins," and completely overlook regen, immortality, resurrection, and general unkillable-ness for abilities that honestly aren't gonna let someone win.

4. Although I agree that save/load aren't necessary, that's what that whole paragraph I wrote was about, but saying that he can just "nope" anything is an NLF

5. Couldn't agree with you more.

Whoops, I did write him, not they by mistake, my bad.
 
Super Dimentio mainly because of his nature (his only weakness pretty much is love) and his invulnerability. His Dimension also trumps SAVE/LOAD IMO.
 
Tivanenk said:
Super Dimentio mainly because of his nature (his only weakness pretty much is love) and his invulnerability. His Dimension also trumps SAVE/LOAD IMO.
Click to expand...

Chara's determination totally overcomes Dimension D. With that determination, Chara can just "nope" the effects of Dimension D.
 
@Blahblah9755

Nah, just said that because of length of your message.

1-He wants to make you quit the game, he already knows your reseting ability. How I know that? Everytime after you die to Sans his pre-battle dialogue changes, also let's not he is most likely was a sciencist in the past.

4-NLF?
 
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