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Chainsaw Man discussion thread

Breadbear83 said:
i got a lot of calcs of mine unevaluated that i forgot for a while to bump, and so there are others from other people, so i could make a list so we keep up with stuff that could be useful to work on

a bunch of these are calcs that were midway on being accepted, where sometimes the calcer answered or not the CGM, and the CGM also not answering back, also anime only calcs have the canonicity problem, that could or couldnt be accepted with a CRT explaining why they could be used

  • Typhoon devil calcs were midway on an evaluation by Eljoaki5, acertainbcplayer answered but eljoaki5 not, but they are somewhat anime only tho
  • Reze calcs are mostly anime onlies (also about her explosions having realistic speeds, idk how do you argue their validicity, like what do you need to look at)
  • Nail Fiend dodges rifle fire was never accepted cuz SundaGamer never answered, and so i see he hasnt evaluated calcs in the wiki for a while
  • Angel Devil throwing his spear wasnt accepted as Damage3245 asked for a calc for Reze Speed, This could replace it (also i think Hybrid Reze could upscale from it as combat speed as shes consistently portrayed as far stronger than Angel, he himself was scared of her)
  • the Devils weight calc could be added, im pretty sure Denji has been able to push the Zombie, Bat, and Cockroach devil, i think i could make a calc of Cockroach Devil jumping too, dunno how Aki scales to the Fish Devil weight cuz the fight is off screen, Aki has also killed a big Pig Devil offscreen in the Manga but again, we didnt see the fight
  • for the devil hunter blocking transformed Yuko hit, it would fall under narrow dodges (as drite77 pointed out), but as Yuko was holding back, athletic human speed could remediate the devill hunter being seemingly much faster than her in that moment
Evaluated and applied to scaling
Unevaluated
Evaluated but not applied yet to scaling, due to a Future CRT being needed

AP

Speed

Lifting Strength
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So, how does the kinetic energy generated to create the Oregon and Michigan Swords scale to the swords' AP? (This is a genuine question, not a criticism btw.)
 
Ser_Hakim_Dayne said:
So, how does the kinetic energy generated to create the Oregon and Michigan Swords scale to the swords' AP? (This is a genuine question, not a criticism btw.)
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Some disagreements on it, but the weapons should retain their mass since Yoru makes it clear the weapons still have their mass like when she used all them at once. Though without that agreement, it'd just be environmental destruction not ap.
 
That's mainly because her arm was turned into a large gun bigger than her body. She manages it, but Denji is the one that notes that it is heavy. That is not the same as compressing the entire mass of a state into a small sword and then calling it heavy because of that. Otherwise, Denji's entire leg would have been ripped off from the sheer weight of the gun gauntlet.

I believe her weapons retain the energy of the structures they were created from, but time and time again the manga shows that they do not scale to their weight. For example, Asa struggles to carry Yuko while sprinting and Yoru suggests that she should simply ditch her. The foundation for this argument is nearly nonexistent.
 
GunshyFever said:
That's mainly because her arm was turned into a large gun bigger than her body. She manages it, but Denji is the one that notes that it is heavy. That is not the same as compressing the entire mass of a state into a small sword and then calling it heavy because of that. Otherwise, Denji's entire leg would have been ripped off from the sheer weight of the gun gauntlet.

I believe her weapons retain the energy of the structures they were created from, but time and time again the manga shows that they do not scale to their weight. For example, Asa struggles to carry Yuko while sprinting and Yoru suggests that she should simply ditch her. The foundation for this argument is nearly nonexistent.
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Regardless of who says it, the mass of the weapons are still there. Asa's struggling is an example of her failing at critical moments, it isn't to show her being weak. But if you don't think so, are you merging the arcs since you don't think she got stronger since the Justice arc to FD? How can the weapons retain energy if they are losing their mass? Or do you mean the special abilities?
 
Is falling devil here snapping Yorus arms, and she regenerates?, this should scale Falling Devil LS to Post a nuclear Yoru who scales to Part 2 Pochita (Class T), right, and Falling devil having an AP comparable to 28% Gun Devil durability or her City Level durability?, also Yoru pages earlier casually regenerated from Falling Devil putting a whole spear down her head, that's Low-Mid or Mid regeneration?

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I was also thinking that Post nuclear weapons Yoru gaining natural devil regeneration, and making devil contracts as a devil (before this she made a contract with the aging devil) would mean that in this key she gets standard devil physiology (or Friend)

(Btw here it seems as if Yorus arms had bones and stuff instead of being like metal due to being made of the gun and tank devil, if I recall Pochita biting them was spitting blood too)
 
Breadbear83 said:
Is falling devil here snapping Yorus arms, and she regenerates?, this should scale Falling Devil LS to Post a nuclear Yoru who scales to Part 2 Pochita (Class T), right, and Falling devil having an AP comparable to 28% Gun Devil durability or her City Level durability?, also Yoru pages earlier casually regenerated from Falling Devil putting a whole spear down her head, that's Low-Mid or Mid regeneration?

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Image Chest

Post with 1 views.
imgchest.com imgchest.com

I was also thinking that Post nuclear weapons Yoru gaining natural devil regeneration, and making devil contracts as a devil (before this she made a contract with the aging devil) would mean that in this key she gets standard devil physiology (or Friend)

(Btw here it seems as if Yorus arms had bones and stuff instead of being like metal due to being made of the gun and tank devil, if I recall Pochita biting them was spitting blood too)
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Me think NuclearYoru and the other god tier should scale to 7-B+ and Class T via this feat of Yoru withstanding and overpowering a serious attack from Falling which should be above her unintentional, passive feat. On Yoru natural regen outside of her contract, it should be Mid via her regen from Falling putting a spear in her head
 
finished 2 LS calcs that can be good for low tiers

btw, for the Fish Devil weight, even if we didnt see the fight Aki and Himeno had against him, we see his corpse on land, clearly not moving there by himself but rather Aki and Himeno pushing him there (as they´re alone, no help), Himeno even calls him a small fry devil

overall, we get other scenes where Aki kills large size devils offscreen, for constantly fighting heavy characters he´d need an LS that can resist being rammed sometime, so maybe it could be proposed Class 50 for Aki?

Breadbear83 said:
i got a lot of calcs of mine unevaluated that i forgot for a while to bump, and so there are others from other people, so i could make a list so we keep up with stuff that could be useful to work on

a bunch of these are calcs that were midway on being accepted, where sometimes the calcer answered or not the CGM, and the CGM also not answering back, also anime only calcs have the canonicity problem, that could or couldnt be accepted with a CRT explaining why they could be used

  • Typhoon devil calcs were midway on an evaluation by Eljoaki5, acertainbcplayer answered but eljoaki5 not, but they are somewhat anime only tho
  • Reze calcs are mostly anime onlies (also about her explosions having realistic speeds, idk how do you argue their validicity, like what do you need to look at)
  • Nail Fiend dodges rifle fire was never accepted cuz SundaGamer never answered, and so i see he hasnt evaluated calcs in the wiki for a while
  • Angel Devil throwing his spear wasnt accepted as Damage3245 asked for a calc for Reze Speed, This could replace it (also i think Hybrid Reze could upscale from it as combat speed as shes consistently portrayed as far stronger than Angel, he himself was scared of her)
  • the Devils weight calc could be added, im pretty sure Denji has been able to push the Zombie, Bat, and Cockroach devil, i think i could make a calc of Cockroach Devil jumping too, dunno how Aki scales to the Fish Devil weight cuz the fight is off screen, Aki has also killed a big Pig Devil offscreen in the Manga but again, we didnt see the fight
  • for the devil hunter blocking transformed Yuko hit, it would fall under narrow dodges (as drite77 pointed out), but as Yuko was holding back, athletic human speed could remediate the devill hunter being seemingly much faster than her in that moment
Evaluated and applied to scaling
Unevaluated
Evaluated but not applied yet to scaling, due to a Future CRT being needed

AP

Speed

Lifting Strength
Click to expand...
updated with the new calcs
 
Breadbear83 said:
finished 2 LS calcs that can be good for low tiers

btw, for the Fish Devil weight, even if we didnt see the fight Aki and Himeno had against him, we see his corpse on land, clearly not moving there by himself but rather Aki and Himeno pushing him there (as they´re alone, no help), Himeno even calls him a small fry devil

overall, we get other scenes where Aki kills large size devils offscreen, for constantly fighting heavy characters he´d need an LS that can resist being rammed sometime, so maybe it could be proposed Class 50 for Aki?


updated with the new calcs
Click to expand...
btw could Yoru scale to Class K from ripping Mr tanaka spine? she doesnt have telekinesis here so rather its her own strength pulling the spine, with the sounds of the spine slowly breaking
 
Hey y'all, I'm working on a CRT of characters abilities (barely started cuz I have calcs and other stuff too), and I was wondering if the "change" in the Nostradamus prophecy can give some character acausality type 4?

Here's some scans to explain:
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Basically, the actual original Nostradamus prophecy is vague on just saying that "the great king of terror will descend in July 1999", and from that humanity assumes it means the end of humanity, as it's consistently believed that it meant the death devil, and for some reason Lil'd fully believing it will happen like that, with her powers activating, as it's requires theorizing to say that it's because the original prophecy said that too, maybe ignore this last thing

But main thing is the future devil, he predicting that 23/30 of people will die in July 1999, and Lil'd assuming the other 7/30 will be killed when falling devil arrives

The future devil is consistently shown to have accurate predictions with he predicting Aki's death early, he not avoiding it even while trying, and so Pochita arrival

Now here's the thung, Lil'd herself says that her attempts to change the prophecy changed it, somehow it was made so her powers won't activate but yoru being the problem now, but she saying it changed it, she is right on that

Death devil being erased made it so there's no way for 23/30 (or remaining) of humanity die, the prophecy was definitively changed, who's the "great king of terror" can be theorized to be yoru or the bug devil's, the change in the prophecy change being it, but moreso future devil's prediction

I'd see it as possibly Lil'd having acausality type 4 for outright saying to have changed the prophecy, but more for Pochita erasing her making it so future devil prediction not happening

Originally I thought that Pochita having that ability from erasing himself, but erasing death seems more fitting
 
Aki change the Future by using his precognition all the time unless you want to argue he could do all those things even without the FD's power, so the future and fate in CSM are definitely flexible enough to be change as long as you know what youre doing (Aki didnt know the specifics of his death and was in no state to really stop it). I dont think you need Acausality for that, else every character with precog in fiction would get it
 
Bruh said:
Aki change the Future by using his precognition all the time unless you want to argue he could do all those things even without the FD's power, so the future and fate in CSM are definitely flexible enough to be change as long as you know what youre doing (Aki didnt know the specifics of his death and was in no state to really stop it). I dont think you need Acausality for that, else every character with precog in fiction would get it
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I don't recall we ever seeing what aki sees in the future being something like he dying (besides his actual death) or someone he could save dying

In Reze arc he sees Reze coming in front of the car (which happens), he also sees Reze attacks that the anime makes it clearer visually that, for example he precogs "rezee will lift her arm to punch me" and that does happen but aki dodges it, and the precogs didn't had him dying (he says any mistake could have him dying, but that's a logical thing of fighting someone much stronger than you)

Same when he precogs Quanxi killing multiple dolls and coming to where he and the others were, the dolls are killed which is what aki precogs

So the future of every fight aki will have is already established to happen the same way since the beginning, so early the future devil saw Aki's death even before actually making the contract with him, where aki then would use the ability several times
 
Breadbear83 said:
I don't recall we ever seeing what aki sees in the future being something like he dying (besides his actual death) or someone he could save dying

In Reze arc he sees Reze coming in front of the car (which happens), he also sees Reze attacks that the anime makes it clearer visually that, for example he precogs "rezee will lift her arm to punch me" and that does happen but aki dodges it, and the precogs didn't had him dying (he says any mistake could have him dying, but that's a logical thing of fighting someone much stronger than you)

Same when he precogs Quanxi killing multiple dolls and coming to where he and the others were, the dolls are killed which is what aki precogs

So the future of every fight aki will have is already established to happen the same way since the beginning, so early the future devil saw Aki's death even before actually making the contract with him, where aki then would use the ability several times
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Then what was the point of using precog to dodge and fight if the results was already set in stone, by this logic he wouldve been able to dodge and block attacks from Reze and Quanxi whether he made a contract or not). This isnt some Jojo King Crimson situation where you have to "trick" the future into happening the way you want while keeping it unchanged (ex the Metalica fight), you can just change it if you see it coming and have the means to. Aki lost his arm and didnt know the specifics of his and Power's death until it was too late, not like anything he does woudve mattered thanks to Makima, in short he didnt have the chance nor means to try and change it. Lil D meanwhile know of the specific date of her fate and spend all of Part 2 setting up the necessary pieces to change it so it would make sense that she could change hers with a plan.
 
The use of precognition is part of the assigned future. The best evidence for the future being changeable comes from Death-chan changing the Prophecy of Nostradamus from her ending humanity to an even worse future.
 
Bruh said:
Then what was the point of using precog to dodge and fight if the results was already set in stone, by this logic he wouldve been able to dodge and block attacks from Reze and Quanxi whether he made a contract or not). This isnt some Jojo King Crimson situation where you have to "trick" the future into happening the way you want while keeping it unchanged (ex the Metalica fight), you can just change it if you see it coming and have the means to. Aki lost his arm and didnt know the specifics of his and Power's death until it was too late, not like anything he does woudve mattered thanks to Makima, in short he didnt have the chance nor means to try and change it. Lil D meanwhile know of the specific date of her fate and spend all of Part 2 setting up the necessary pieces to change it so it would make sense that she could change hers with a plan.
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Aki seeing the future by a bunch of seconds (like he says) makes him able to dodge Reze and Quanxi attacks, otherwise if he couldnt he wouldn't be able to react to them as they are much faster than him

We see with quanxi that he specifically precogs she killing dolls inside the building they're, that does happens, but he saving angel is separated from what was precognized

he sees reze coming in front of the car, which happens, then in her fight against reze, the anime makes it clearer than the manga that he specifically precognized punches that still happen in reality, those precognitions didnt include parts where he his hit and dies

the future that aki sees is one that already has him precognition affecting it, or that his precognition wouldnt affect anyways (he cant stop reze from coming to the car, quanxi coming at such speeds, or reze simply moving her arm in battle)

the future devil already seeing further into the future of an aki already having used precognition shows this

besides this, you´re saying Lil´d could get acausality type 4, but Pochita not?
 
Even if she could get it, doubt it would be Combat Applicable considering it took months of planning and tons of external factor
 
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