Speed Blitzing and Time Manipulation

[Kaltias]

Which leads to the other point where i'd rather not have this as a rule, but i'd rather trust people's ability to understand that if the focus of your speed equal match is "who is faster", then you are missing the point of "speed equal" and the match is bad.

If you are making a match with speed equal, it's because you want to focus on everything else, not who is faster

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I disagree with us banning Time Manipulation and things like Paralysis.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Kal makes a lot of sense here.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

I disagree for banning time manipulation, but i agree for banning paralysis since this thing is so goddamn awful auto-win.

 

[Antvasima]

The issue here seems to be whether or not we should treat speed equalisation as absolute, by including time stop and speed amplification powers, so we do not end up with stomps, inverted results, or both, because of this. Or if we should simply underline that this is part of the "no stomp matches" rule.

What do the rest of you think about this?

 

[Theglassman12]

I disagree for banning time manipulation, but i agree for banning paralysis since this thing is so goddamn awful auto-win.

That's not a good reason, especially when there's a thing called "resisting the abilities" or the characters don't use paralysis right off the bat.

 

[PrettyFearMachine]

One of the reasons why I say speed equalized is used too much.

I agree. Even though it may be very difficult to find matches where one side doesn't get blitzed by the other, speed equalization is a bit overused.

Wait a minute... are we actually talking about banning abilities? What even...

Yeah no, I'm siding with Kaltias & Co.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Which leads to the other point where i'd rather not have this as a rule, but i'd rather trust people's ability to understand that if the focus of your speed equal match is "who is faster", then you are missing the point of "speed equal" and the match is bad.
If you are making a match with speed equal, it's because you want to focus on everything else, not who is faster

If that's the case, why allow amplifications of speed in a speed equal match to begin with?

 

[PrettyFearMachine]

It may sound off-topic, but I'm genuinely curious what was the catalyst for this discussion's occurrance.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I still agree with Kaltias

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

It may sound off-topic, but I'm genuinely curious what was the catalyst for this discussion's occurrance.

Time Based abilities being used to win speed equal matchups being added despite matchups with speed equal that have speed amps being banned from being added to pages.

See: Most profiles with Time Stop.

 

[PrettyFearMachine]

Time Based abilities being used to win speed equal matchups being added despite matchups with speed equal that have speed amps being banned from being added to pages.

See: Most profiles with Time Stop.

While I would agree that a slower guy blitzing via Time Slow sounds dumb, Time Stop is not a good analogy and shouldn't be put in the same line with Speed Amping.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

@Kagari

But that's only applies to the own verse, right? Now if its bring to vs debates it will becoming auto-win which is awful because most of the characters here doesn't resist paralysis.

Again, this is happen if paralysis is so goddamn-awful-powerful like Blazblue which should be banned, if the paralysis is not that powerful then its good.

Then again this is what i think since paralysis is bringed here which i think it can be a problem.

 

[Kaltias]

If that's the case, why allow amplifications of speed in a speed equal match to begin with?

Because that's what everyone wanted to do the last time we talked about this issue. I don't like speed amps in speed equal, but everyone wants them, so at least I obtained the fact that "slow character wins via being fast" is not a thing

And Vel, a power being broken or not isn't the point

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Well, fair enough i guess.

I gonna bring the paralysis thing to elsewhere but eh, don't have much time for that.

 

[Antvasima]

I also think that it seems better if speed equal means speed equal, period.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

This is entirely not the thread for that, GL. Either do a separate thread asking or you can very well ask in the general Slime discussion thread where a lot of the knowledgeable members talk about the series and stuff, so let's not derail.

 

[GLHF22]

I mean if someone always use speed amp right off the the battle, is His AMP speed ability also equalized or not?

Because if not, the battle should not be added since he cannot Going all out/ one of His ability restricted

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Pretty sure the amp isn't equalized in that situation.

 

[Paul_Frank]

Easy solution is to just not allow speed equal

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Easy solution is to just not allow speed equal

This effectively ends 99% of all possible matches. For example. JoJos never gets used again except against JoJos.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

I also think that it seems better if speed equal means speed equal, period.

I agree, although there is still the time manip/stat reduction implications.

For example Time Manip indirectly can allow a character to blitz in a speed equal match even if amps are equalized as well, double goes for time stop. Stat Reduction can also be used to an identical effect to speed amps and wouldn't be covered under this.

 

[The_Calaca]

I know this is staff only but I would like to give my two cents here if everybody is okay with it.

First of all, a match where Character X who has time stop with no limits nor repercussions faces Character Y with no way to compensate it it's a mismatch. Like EOH DIO vs Vegeta DBS. Sure they can both one-shot but DIO leads with Infinite Timestop. What has Vegeta to compensate the hax?

Second, there's a lot of characters whose main fighting style relies on speed (Speedsters are the most common example) and equalizing them is unfair from the very beginning. I know this avoid blitzstomps and I agree with that, but if we have Character X whose main fighting style revolves around speed and has speed amps, if you ban speed amps in speed equalized matches then his fighting style is pointless. We have the starting range set for the character who has the highest range in the rules to give him the range advantage because that's what they do. So why should we restrict the speed amps in speed =ized matches? That's a double standard.

 

[Orion'sBow]

Speed equalized just means soeed equalized. If people want to remove other powers from a fight, why don't they just do it on a case by case basis when they make fights? Oherwise you're weirdly messing with a lot of characters' powers and making things really confusing.

 

[Antvasima]

Orion makes a good point.