Sora Vs Black Hat

[Bobsican]

The hero of the Disney multiverse fights the villain of the WB multiverse

KHI Sora is used, speed equalized, Black Hat is bloodlusted

Sora: 2 (@The_Smashor, @speedster352)

Black Hat: 1 (@XXKINGXX69)

Inconclusive: 0

 

[DaReaperMan]

Black Hat has never fought in Villainous and as such this fight kinda can't happen unless he's bloodlusted. And he's got plot manipulation.

 

[The_Smashor]

For AP, Sora is about 2x baseline, while Black Hat massively upscales from baseline, so I'd say they're about even if Black Hat isn't stronger, though Sora's transformations would likely even the odds.

Black Hat has much more experience, being centuries older. However, much of his experience is likely in planning, given what he criticizes in villains, and not necessarily direct combat. His sheer domination compared to the rest of his verse supports that his direct combat experience is likely not up to par. Sora is pretty clearly the better direct fighter going off his feats. Although, Sora mainly fights with allies, while Black Hat mostly fights on his own, so at least he has something going for him.

I should note that, just looking at the context, Black Hat's plot manipulation likely isn't combat applicable. He's seemingly only able to affect his show because he's the one producing it, and he likely wouldn't be producing this theoretical crossover battle. He couldn't really do shit to Sora, Plot-Wise, since Sora isn't written by Black Hat's writing staff.

From what I can tell from the profile, Sora lacks access to his Time Stop, meaning he has no real instant win option, though he does resist almost all of Black Hat's hax (Even having an answer to some of Black Hat's weirder powers like Immersion). Sora's magic and Black Hat's powers give them similar amounts of variety, though ultimately Black Hat has almost nothing Sora hasn't seen before (Hell, his mannerisms and even some of his types of attack are similar to Hades) and Sora probably dosn't have anything Black Hat hasn't seen before (After all, this guy lives in a universe with heroes that have as much variety as Ben Tennyson). Their healing is also roughly equal I'd say, both can heal most non-lethal injuries but will die if the other lands a lethal blow.

However, Black Hat has one hax that Sora dosn't resist, his Sound Manipulation, which creates sounds so miserable it causes people to basically instantly crumple to the floor. And considering Black Hat's entire gimmick is that he yells at other villains for doing stupid things, it's not unlikely that he'd lead with his stronger abilities. His personal philosophy is to finish off the hero quickly and not monologue, so he'd probably lead with abilities he thinks would be effective if he was in an actual fight he saw as worth his time (Which I assume he would be in this scenario, and certainly would be once Sora actually presents himself as a threat). As such, it seems likely Black Hat would probably use his Sound Manipulation before Sora gets the kill, which would leave Sora vulnerable.

It's a close as hell fight, but I think Black Hat edges out thanks to having definitive winning move that he would likely pull out. Sora's healing and Black Hat's regen mean the fight would most likely last long enough for him to use it.

 

[Bobsican]

KHII Sora scales x8 above baseline

 

[DaReaperMan]

KHII Sora scales x8 above baseline

Then your probably gonna wanna make it an earlier key cause that is AP stomp range

 

[Bobsican]

K, KHI Sora it is then
Also, Sora isn't necessarily alone, he can still summon allies.

 

[DaReaperMan]

So, question, how goodie-two-shoes will Sora act towards Black Hat? Cause Black Hat tends to not like heroes in the slightest

 

[Bobsican]

Probably would comment a bit on how bad he is or something, but not for more than a few seconds. Beyond that he uses a mixture of close combat with the Keyblade and magic every now and then.

 

[The_Smashor]

So, question, how goodie-two-shoes will Sora act towards Black Hat? Cause Black Hat tends to not like heroes in the slightest

Honestly, dialogue between the two would be ******* hilarious. You have the Anime protagonist "I fight for my friends" man versus basically the antithesis of that.

 

[DaReaperMan]

So he may not immediately piss Black Hat the hell off then, I think what Smashor said stands then begrudgingly.

 

[The_Smashor]

Anyways, if it's KH1 Sora, I think I'll change my vote to Sora. His Time Stop is a more reliable attack than Black Hat's sound manipulation, and Sora's better combat experience means he'll probably use it a bit earlier, though it's even closer than it was before. He also probably has way more willpower and pain tolerance than Black Hat's minions, which would probably let him fight through the sound for a while.

 

[Bobsican]

Also, I don't think bloodlust would be required, Black Hat may never have explicitly fought, but we do know he has done plenty of... nasty things off-screen, even if he has yet to face someone that can legitimately fight him.
Sora also has Supernatural Will in the first place as he could make a Nobody.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Anyways, if it's KH1 Sora, I think I'll change my vote to Sora. His Time Stop is a more reliable attack than Black Hat's sound manipulation, and Sora's better combat experience means he'll probably use it a bit earlier, though it's even closer than it was before. He also probably has way more willpower and pain tolerance than Black Hat's minions, which would probably let him fight through the sound for a while.

I mean Sora also kinda doesn't resist plot Manipulation and as we know it's something along the lines of voice or movement-based, that's an option

Also, I don't think bloodlust would be required, Black Hat may never have explicitly fought, but we do know he has done plenty of... nasty things off-screen, even if he has yet to face someone that can legitimately fight him.

Which was never a time Black Hat was in combat, as literally nobody wants to actually try to fight him that he didn't kind of just talk-no-jutsu down on-screen

 

[The_Smashor]

I mean Sora also kinda doesn't resist plot Manipulation and as we know it's something along the lines of voice or movement-based, that's an option

In context, Black Hat's plot manipulation only really applies to his own show. He basically changes the plot by bossing his writers around, while Sora's writers would be totally different people. Unless Hand Puppet Black Hat takes over Square Enix, his plothax isn't really touching Sora.

Also, if he did try to write Sora in a crossover, he'd probably have a ****-ton of restrictions from Disney.

Plus, it may not even be plot manipulation, considering Black Hat considers the show to just be his actual life, meaning there may not have even been actual plot points to reject.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Let's be honest he probably could boss Square Enix around like that lol

 

[The_Smashor]

Let's be honest he probably could boss Square Enix around like that lol

Square? Maybe. But Black Hat ain't doing shit with Disney around.

 

[Bobsican]

He'd have to boss Disney, so good luck with that : V

Plot Manip doesn't seem combat applicable, at least given that per SBA we don't give prep time by default.

Anyways, I guess I could bloodlust Black Hat, although chances are he'd quickly go in that area when he notices Sora's a legitimate foe.

 

[The_Smashor]

Yeah, as I mentioned, Black Hat's entire gimmick is shittalking villains for not doing the best move in a situation with your given knowledge, so it'd be weird if he acted stupid in combat.

 

[The_Smashor]

Anyways, I'm heading to bed for the night.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

sora

 

[Half_Shiny]

Yo sorry for the late reply, and I will have to go to bed after this and that is entirely my b

1st part, BH's plot manip wouldn't work in other verses:
The plot manip is the show itself, but one of Villainous's main gimmicks is crossing over with other canon/verses. So if a random thing is in a different canon it would mean the plot manip affected the verse. Basically if BH or anything from Villainous is there plot manip is in effect
Also yeah puppet is weird, they have shown it that BH can just show up in the studio or irl when he wants

2nd part, How he would approach the match:
My thought process is that he would likely see him as something to go against from the happy go lucky personally (I can be 100% wrong if sorry doesn't act like that all the time, my b). But he would likely just go for him because he can. If you don't offer/pay him he kinda just murders (or worse) because you looked at him funny. Case in point BH accidently teleported someone, then processed to do this

3rd part, new stuff:
Some stuff also just came from the ARG recently that aren't on the profile just yet since I am still waiting for season 1 to finish up. Three bigger abilities come from it: Life manip, Transmutation, Biology Manipulation. BH has shown to change a show 505 likes because of how much he hates it, and someone in verse made a creepypasta about one they saw. With the line For some reason, this show seems to attract a certain dark and evil influence.. and the fact they mention the fact the sun fired laser beams in the same category means it is likely true. Intro out of the way

Transmutation and Life Manip: "At one point, the camera began to zoom in on the sun and where the incandescent energy rings should be, there were some sort of huge jagged tentacles wriggling and wriggling like a living entity. It was as if the sun were a huge creature of immeasurable size...."

Transmutation and Biology Manip: Turned these things, into these abominations

I don't know how much it will matter but just thought it would be good to mention


4th part: General questions
So I am reading the time stop thing, so is it like a pause button? Can he act? Is there a limit? Sorry it is just a bit vague.

How I think this could go
Feel free to 100% correct me on this part as I know not a lot about KH's so I could be off the mark entirely

I feel like BH would act first just off of the fact if you look at him in any sort of way and don't have anything to offer, he will go after you.
And since I don't know how time stop works I am just going to list some hurdles abilities.
Fusionism: He can use the summons against him by either fusing anyone he brings out with another or just with Sora
Abilities above (transmutation/bio manip): if he doesn't have any counters to that.
Sound Manip: said above
BH's self tranformation: So far in the series every time BH has been near touched he transforms/is teleported away (sometimes a mix of both). Does he have counter to that?
The biggest one is BFR: The range for Sora is currently Planetary. BH has been shown to throw people into other universes for the hell of it. Does he have any escape? Like I see portal and dimensional travel in the categories but don't see them in abilities or in range.

But yeah those are my thoughts on the matter. I could have easily missed a couple things. It may take some time before I can respond and I am sorry about that.

(Edit: reading more through blood lusted is probably a good idea. Like he would probably go directly for him but this makes it easier to get straight to the point/get rid of him enjoying suffering type stuff.)

 

[Bobsican]

Sora just does a gesture and time stops what's in range.

It prevents all movement of what's inflicted, but it doesn't last for too long, however, Sora can extend the time it lasts by just casting it again while it's in effect, but it can compromise the amount of magic at his disposal long-term, although with Elixirs this isn't much of a concern, allowing to do stuff like this.

Because of this, I don't think the teleportation is a big concern, however

Sora doesn't really resist any of the hax abilities you've mentioned, although it seems Supernatural WIllpower can overcome the sound manip?

While Sora lacks the capability to travel from a universe to another in this key, the Keyblade can still negate sealing, so he could just open the same portal that sent him there, after all, it still managed to seal the Door to Darkness, which was a portal to the other universe that's the Realm of Darkness.

 

[Livinmeme]

IDK what is funnier the fact that black hat can just invade disney to kick sora out of the plot, or that sora wins because bad game design

 

[Bobsican]

IDK what is funnier the fact that black hat can just invade disney to kick sora out of the plot, or that sora wins because bad game design

Elixirs are quite hard to get in-game, so I wouldn't just say it's bad game design

Anyways, we need more votes

 

[Half_Shiny]

Two reasons I believe BH has the advantage in this match: Versatility in abilities and plot manip

Abilities:
at the moment Sora's only win-con is time stop in comparison to: Transmutation, Biology Manipulation, Reality Manip, and Fusionism. With sound manip not being a win-con directly but due to how it bring characters to their knees is near close to one. Also for the super natural willpower I think it could be arguable, but there is evidence of it working on strong willed people such as Demencia who could shake off mind control through sheer will.

With these abilities being used by via just a look as well in comparison to the gesture of raising up the keyblade (not to mention the time it would take to bring in the summons) .

So for match wining abilities we have +4 abilities for BH and 1 for Sora

Plot Manip:
Plot manip kinda just means it will go how BH wants. Which makes point the point above much more consistent, if not just invalidating Sora's biggest win-con.


This is just my break down and there can easily more abilities I am missing on both sides.

IDK what is funnier the fact that black hat can just invade disney to kick sora out of the plot, or that sora wins because bad game design

LMAO

(edit forgot reality manip)

 

[Bobsican]

Keep in mind that Black Hat isn't aware of what Sora doesn't resist, and therefore Sora ironically would have more time to figure out his wincon than him, which is further supported by a significantly lower movepool avaliable compared to him, especially if he notices that just using stuff like Thundaga or Graviga won't do it.

Also, I don't think plot manip is usable here as per SBA there's no preparation time by default, and it seems he can only change the plot beforehand.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Black hat FRA

 

[Bobsican]

Bump.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

As funny an idea as it would be, Black Hat isn’t doing anything to Disney to make Plot manipulation work. This isn’t his show, these aren’t his writers, he has no jurisdiction over them. The mouse would literally drop kick Black Hat back into his smaller studio of writers then buy them out to make spin off shows and merchandise. He ain’t doing anything with his Plot Manip at all.

Other than that following, leaning Sora because if he does Time Stop spam its gg. Black Hat also doesn’t know what does and doesn’t effect Sora, so at least right now it’s more likely Sora hits him with the ole time stop + Elixer strat first.

And Black Hat would be able to tell Sora is heroic just from a glance, the kids heart is literally too bright to ignore.

 

[DaReaperMan]

As funny an idea as it would be, Black Hat isn’t doing anything to Disney to make Plot manipulation work. This isn’t his show, these aren’t his writers, he has no jurisdiction over them. The mouse would literally drop kick Black Hat back into his smaller studio of writers then buy them out to make spin off shows and merchandise. He ain’t doing anything with his Plot Manip at all.

Other than that following, leaning Sora because if he does Time Stop spam its gg. Black Hat also doesn’t know what does and doesn’t effect Sora, so at least right now it’s more likely Sora hits him with the ole time stop + Elixer strat first.

And Black Hat would be able to tell Sora is heroic just from a glance, the kids heart is literally too bright to ignore.

"The plot manip is the show itself, but one of Villainous's main gimmicks is crossing over with other canon/verses. So if a random thing is in a different canon it would mean the plot manip affected the verse. Basically if BH or anything from Villainous is there plot manip is in effect"

Any more funny ideas?

 

[Kingofwolves999]

"The plot manip is the show itself, but one of Villainous's main gimmicks is crossing over with other canon/verses. So if a random thing is in a different canon it would mean the plot manip affected the verse. Basically if BH or anything from Villainous is there plot manip is in effect"

Any more funny ideas?

Yeah, where’s that quote from? And why would this extend to different franchises? So far he’s only effected things that WB own, so unless he suddenly can plot manip writers from different companies I’m still not seeing how it works here. Unless there’s a feat of him doing something beyond his company, his only plot powers were literally just him writing his show and messing with his own writers, neither of which factor in to a fan vs battle with someone owned by Disney.

So can I get an explanation on why that particular power would work here? Unless I’m missing something it shouldn’t be effective outside of verses he has written himself to effect.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

This isn’t like he can remove animation frames or rewrite events to be more favorable or anything really wacky. It’s literally just things that effect his own show and what he wants to fight.

This isn’t his show and even if it was, how would he tell his writers to rewrite it when Sora isn’t in their domain? How does he use Plot Manip to actually fight? And can he even do it if he’s in time stop?

Also I apparently just read he needs prep to even effect his own story? Like he needs to tell the writers what to write in advance? So no really, WHAT does that ability even do in the middle of a battle that he had no idea was happening.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Yo sorry for the late reply, and I will have to go to bed after this and that is entirely my b

1st part, BH's plot manip wouldn't work in other verses:
The plot manip is the show itself, but one of Villainous's main gimmicks is crossing over with other canon/verses. So if a random thing is in a different canon it would mean the plot manip affected the verse. Basically if BH or anything from Villainous is there plot manip is in effect
Also yeah puppet is weird, they have shown it that BH can just show up in the studio or irl when he wants

2nd part, How he would approach the match:
My thought process is that he would likely see him as something to go against from the happy go lucky personally (I can be 100% wrong if sorry doesn't act like that all the time, my b). But he would likely just go for him because he can. If you don't offer/pay him he kinda just murders (or worse) because you looked at him funny. Case in point BH accidently teleported someone, then processed to do this

3rd part, new stuff:
Some stuff also just came from the ARG recently that aren't on the profile just yet since I am still waiting for season 1 to finish up. Three bigger abilities come from it: Life manip, Transmutation, Biology Manipulation. BH has shown to change a show 505 likes because of how much he hates it, and someone in verse made a creepypasta about one they saw. With the line For some reason, this show seems to attract a certain dark and evil influence.. and the fact they mention the fact the sun fired laser beams in the same category means it is likely true. Intro out of the way

Transmutation and Life Manip: "At one point, the camera began to zoom in on the sun and where the incandescent energy rings should be, there were some sort of huge jagged tentacles wriggling and wriggling like a living entity. It was as if the sun were a huge creature of immeasurable size...."

Transmutation and Biology Manip: Turned these things, into these abominations

I don't know how much it will matter but just thought it would be good to mention


4th part: General questions
So I am reading the time stop thing, so is it like a pause button? Can he act? Is there a limit? Sorry it is just a bit vague.

How I think this could go
Feel free to 100% correct me on this part as I know not a lot about KH's so I could be off the mark entirely

I feel like BH would act first just off of the fact if you look at him in any sort of way and don't have anything to offer, he will go after you.
And since I don't know how time stop works I am just going to list some hurdles abilities.
Fusionism: He can use the summons against him by either fusing anyone he brings out with another or just with Sora
Abilities above (transmutation/bio manip): if he doesn't have any counters to that.
Sound Manip: said above
BH's self tranformation: So far in the series every time BH has been near touched he transforms/is teleported away (sometimes a mix of both). Does he have counter to that?
The biggest one is BFR: The range for Sora is currently Planetary. BH has been shown to throw people into other universes for the hell of it. Does he have any escape? Like I see portal and dimensional travel in the categories but don't see them in abilities or in range.

But yeah those are my thoughts on the matter. I could have easily missed a couple things. It may take some time before I can respond and I am sorry about that.

(Edit: reading more through blood lusted is probably a good idea. Like he would probably go directly for him but this makes it easier to get straight to the point/get rid of him enjoying suffering type stuff.)

If your not even going to read every argument then why begin arguing in a thread in the first place?

 

[Kingofwolves999]

If your not even going to read every argument then why begin arguing in a thread in the first place?

I did read that actually, I thought it was a real quote or something. But it’s an argument. So I’m trying to figure out what it even means to Sora at all.

In this battle, his writers have no say, because they aren’t writing it. The extent of his plot Manip is his writers. So it’s useless when he’s fighting something his writers can’t effect.

So rather than berating me for not looking through the thread, I would like some answers on this guys abilities that even remotely imply his Plot Manipulation is worth much here.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

And beyond even that, his plot manipulation appears to require his writers to actually need time to write what happens. He has no prep time. So what’s he gonna even say to them when he’s getting time stopped and whacked with a key?

If someone could actually TALK about his ability, I would be grateful.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Yeah, where’s that quote from? And why would this extend to different franchises? So far he’s only effected things that WB own, so unless he suddenly can plot manip writers from different companies I’m still not seeing how it works here. Unless there’s a feat of him doing something beyond his company, his only plot powers were literally just him writing his show and messing with his own writers, neither of which factor in to a fan vs battle with someone owned by Disney.

So can I get an explanation on why that particular power would work here? Unless I’m missing something it shouldn’t be effective outside of verses he has written himself to effect.

Actually, let me just tear this a new one, what happens when a Low 2-C pops up in the writer's room? As shown above he can do this whenever he wants, so what stops him from dipping for a bit, making Disney into a puppet cause it's kinda hard to deal with a Low 2-C, and activating plot Manipulation that way.

Yeah, as I mentioned, Black Hat's entire gimmick is shittalking villains for not doing the best move in a situation with your given knowledge, so it'd be weird if he acted stupid in combat.

And this here would be why.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Actually, let me just tear this a new one, what happens when a Low 2-C pops up in the writer's room? As shown above he can do this whenever he wants, so what stops him from dipping for a bit, making Disney into a puppet cause it's kinda hard to deal with a Low 2-C, and activating plot Manipulation that way.

Can he do plot manipulation to people outside of the WB franchise and how does he do so mid combat

 

[DaReaperMan]

Can he do plot manipulation to people outside of the WB franchise and how does he do so mid combat

Ah ah ah, your bringing more IRL stuff into this then needed, and he can literally portal out or teleport, hell, it's implied he possessed what's his face again to pop up, so what stops him from doing that, took like 10 seconds and those are 10 seconds Sora has to not get ****** in the A by some of Black Hat's not resisted hax and kill him

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Ah ah ah, your bringing more IRL stuff into this then needed, and he can literally portal out or teleport, hell, it's implied he possessed what's his face again to pop up, so what stops him from doing that, took like 10 seconds and those are 10 seconds Sora has to not get ****** in the A by some of Black Hat's not resisted hax and kill him

I have no idea what any of this means. Possessed who? Why does that matter? And how would he know what hax he doesn’t resist? And what does any of that do to prevent time stop?

And if I don’t know how much IRL there is it’s because this guys plot manipulation seems poorly portrayed as an actual combat ability to me currently. It doesn’t remotely seem like something he just does to someone he is annoyed with due to heroism, nor does it seem plausible to do or even work? In the middle of a fight?

 

[DaReaperMan]

When some of your options aren't working and your outskilled and being injured, yeah, I think going out of your way to try things like Black Hat's plot Manipulation, which works by Black Hat Warping in one of two or three ways and beginning to force a script write with very little the opposition can do about it(cause planetary range ain't cutting it unless we assume that the writers for Sora are on the same plane as the characters which... honestly sounds kinda funny when I think about it), would seem like a better option then some of your other fucky options like Transmutation or fusionism