Sonny Boy Cosmology/Introduction thread.

[Blackcurrant91]

I doubt this will go anywhere but here goes.

Sonny Boy

Thirty-six students find themselves and their school building suddenly adrift in a void-like dimension. When supernatural powers awaken in some of them, a sense of detachment begins to divide the group. Despite the student council's attempts to impose order, they clash with the students...

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Sonny Boy Cosmology

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Blackcurrant91/sandboxnagara

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Blackcurrant91/sandboxmizuho

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Blackcurrant91/sandboxasakaze

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Wanted to note that there will be more profiles to come, wanted to mostly focus on getting the Cosmology right firstly.

I also wanted to highly encourage people to check out the show.

 

[deonment]

Agree with this
and to tldr the reason for the ratings as was explained to me and what I drew from said explanation

The worlds are an infinite hierarchy of higher and lower infinite worlds that are embedded into the space-time of a higher world, with the author taking influence from flatland and one of the main themes of the story being “a world of higher dimensions,” making it high 1-B

Above this lies the movie theater world in which all of the other worlds are contained and seen as fiction, making it low 1-A

The darkness is next and was entirely inaccessible to nagara despite him being able to freely travel through the above structures along with encompassing the above structures, making it 1-A

The real world is even further beyond that, being wholly unobservable by the cast while they exist below it, along with the distance between them and it not changing despite their ascension, making it further into 1-A

Currant can correct me in case I **** up anything

 

[Blackcurrant91]

Agree with this
and to tldr the reason for the ratings as was explained to me and what I drew from said explanation

The worlds are an infinite hierarchy of higher and lower infinite worlds that are embedded into the space-time of a higher world, with the author taking influence from flatland and one of the main themes of the story being “a world of higher dimensions,” making it high 1-B

Above this lies the movie theater world in which all of the other worlds are contained and seen as fiction, making it low 1-A

The darkness is next and was entirely inaccessible to nagara despite him being able to freely travel through the above structures along with encompassing the above structures, making it 1-A

The real world is even further beyond that, being wholly unobservable by the cast while they exist below it, along with the distance between them and it not changing despite their ascension, making it further into 1-A

Currant can correct me in case I **** up anything

This is entirely accurate and a much more succinct explanation then I have provided so thank you.

 

[Blackcurrant91]

bumpo

 

[Blackcurrant91]

@Blackcurrant91 you should add this to the blog

Will add it to the TLDR yeh

 

[Blackcurrant91]

@Blackcurrant91 you should add this to the blog

Done

 

[Blackcurrant91]

Bumpo

 

[Blackcurrant91]

Bumpo

 

[Blackcurrant91]

Blackcurrant91/sandboxmizuho

vsbattles.fandom.com

Another profile mostly ready.

Weird girl with weird power, not suitable for fights but still cool.

 

[Blackcurrant91]

bumpo

 

[ImmortalDread]

Respectfully, in response to the request from the OP, I will evaluate this and present my perspective:

Before delving into the intricacies of the cosmology section, it is worth noting that I find your exposition on the verse page to be quite commendable upon a cursory perusal, appreciating the artistic style that it embodies.

To cosmology, it is superjacent upon me to express that there exist certain aspects within it that I personally find myself at odds with. Consequently, I am inclined to propose an alternative hierarchical framework, tier one rooted in my own interpretation of the content presented within the blog. This assertion is made with an inherent willingness to remain receptive to divergent viewpoints, counter-interpretations, or substantiating evidence that may be brought forth. It is, however, my contention that these aspects should have been addressed from the outset.

To begin, as I meticulously journeyed through the cosmology section up to the juncture demarcated as the “Darkness” segment, my evaluation culminated in the attribution of a tier of 2-A (or a probable 2-A) tier, predicated upon the concept of infinite worlds being contextualized and equated as what could be termed as “stories”. The author's clarification on this matter, coupled with an implicit indication, fortifies this determination.

Allow me to reference a specific passage for context:

These endless worlds appear to be nested within each other and characters find entrances to them within every day inanimate objects like tables and pieces of cloth.

Perhaps there is a minor semantic misstep in the formulation? This could be a plausible conjecture; nevertheless, substantiating the discourse with fragments of evidence, it emerges that these worlds are characterized by eternal extension, as opposed to an infinity of distinct worlds. This delineation, while seemingly semantic in nature, is pivotal to emphasize in order to dispel potential confusion.

Subsequently, a knowledgeable character within the verse proclaims these realms to lack genuine existence, potentially implying that they are naught but illusory constructs.

Mizuho copies the school and Nagara creates 'This Worlds' with it's top being 'Hateno Island' with seemingly endless branches/universes branching off from there.

Nonetheless, I find myself unable to readily discern the basis for this conclusion within the evidence you've provided. Regrettably, the rationale guiding this deduction eludes my grasp. Hence, I respectfully request further elucidation, supplemented by relevant evidence to support your viewpoint. Notwithstanding this absence of clarity, I shall endeavor to progress in my analysis.

Drawing solely upon the evidence furnished within the “Darkness” section, I am inclined to assert that the world in question seemingly possesses qualitative superiority over the framework proposed by a 2-A hierarchy. This, in turn, prompts me to propose an elevated classification akin to a low 1-C standing.

In accordance with my understanding, I delineate the following structures:

• “This world” equates to an expanse that is boundlessly vast, accompanied by its distinct temporal axis | low 2-C
  • Coexisting with a variety of gateways (though specifics are not outlined), the equivalence between these entities gains precision when juxtaposed with 2-dimensional worlds.
  • A nuanced distinction surfaces here; the world extends indefinitely, but not necessarily infinitely.
• “Theater Movie” this entity epitomizes one of the many “worlds” within “this world." It's characterized by spatial enclosure (as specified by the author) and comprises an extensive multiverse brimming with stories (each story akin to a world) | 2-A
• “Darkness” to my interpretation, serves as a conduit bridging “these worlds” and the “real world,” functioning akin to a wormhole.
• “The real world” inhabits a realm imperceptible to the inhabitants of “these worlds” and remains beyond reach | low 1-C

Conclusion: I find myself in disagreement with 1-A with the reasons above. I suggest low 1-C instead. Altho, I still need to understand what exactly is Darkness due to lack of explanation there, and this is a significant merit of the thread since it is where it grants a significant jump in the tiers.

 

[Blackcurrant91]

Respectfully, in response to the request from the OP, I will evaluate this and present my perspective:

Before delving into the intricacies of the cosmology section, it is worth noting that I find your exposition on the verse page to be quite commendable upon a cursory perusal, appreciating the artistic style that it embodies.

To cosmology, it is superjacent upon me to express that there exist certain aspects within it that I personally find myself at odds with. Consequently, I am inclined to propose an alternative hierarchical framework, tier one rooted in my own interpretation of the content presented within the blog. This assertion is made with an inherent willingness to remain receptive to divergent viewpoints, counter-interpretations, or substantiating evidence that may be brought forth. It is, however, my contention that these aspects should have been addressed from the outset.

To begin, as I meticulously journeyed through the cosmology section up to the juncture demarcated as the “Darkness” segment, my evaluation culminated in the attribution of a tier of 2-A (or a probable 2-A) tier, predicated upon the concept of infinite worlds being contextualized and equated as what could be termed as “stories”. The author's clarification on this matter, coupled with an implicit indication, fortifies this determination.

Allow me to reference a specific passage for context:

Perhaps there is a minor semantic misstep in the formulation? This could be a plausible conjecture; nevertheless, substantiating the discourse with fragments of evidence, it emerges that these worlds are characterized by eternal extension, as opposed to an infinity of distinct worlds. This delineation, while seemingly semantic in nature, is pivotal to emphasize in order to dispel potential confusion.

Subsequently, a knowledgeable character within the verse proclaims these realms to lack genuine existence, potentially implying that they are naught but illusory constructs.

Nonetheless, I find myself unable to readily discern the basis for this conclusion within the evidence you've provided. Regrettably, the rationale guiding this deduction eludes my grasp. Hence, I respectfully request further elucidation, supplemented by relevant evidence to support your viewpoint. Notwithstanding this absence of clarity, I shall endeavor to progress in my analysis.

Drawing solely upon the evidence furnished within the “Darkness” section, I am inclined to assert that the world in question seemingly possesses qualitative superiority over the framework proposed by a 2-A hierarchy. This, in turn, prompts me to propose an elevated classification akin to a low 1-C standing.

In accordance with my understanding, I delineate the following structures:

• “This world” equates to an expanse that is boundlessly vast, accompanied by its distinct temporal axis | low 2-C
  • Coexisting with a variety of gateways (though specifics are not outlined), the equivalence between these entities gains precision when juxtaposed with 2-dimensional worlds.
  • A nuanced distinction surfaces here; the world extends indefinitely, but not necessarily infinitely.
• “Theater Movie” this entity epitomizes one of the many “worlds” within “this world." It's characterized by spatial enclosure (as specified by the author) and comprises an extensive multiverse brimming with stories (each story akin to a world) | 2-A
• “Darkness” to my interpretation, serves as a conduit bridging “these worlds” and the “real world,” functioning akin to a wormhole.
• “The real world” inhabits a realm imperceptible to the inhabitants of “these worlds” and remains beyond reach | low 1-C

Conclusion: I find myself in disagreement with 1-A with the reasons above. I suggest low 1-C instead. Altho, I still need to understand what exactly is Darkness due to lack of explanation there, and this is a significant merit of the thread since it is where it grants a significant jump in the tiers.

Ty for this.

There are a few things I disagree with here but these seem to stem more from a lack of explanation in my cosmology blog then anything else.

The series is extremely confusing and I believe the cosmology blog could use simply more information in it before I attempt to throw it at higher tiers.

Instead of arguing I think I will simply do a bit more work on the blog and possibly recreate the thread later.

 

[Blackcurrant91]

So I have added some more details about the nature of 'This Worlds' being able to support higher dimensions.

I have also clarrified that 'This Worlds' not being real is simply in relation to 'The Real World'

Have added more information showing 'This Worlds' have separate timelines.

TLDR:

There are infinite 'This Worlds' that are capable of supporting higher dimensional structures. These worlds are contained within each other endlessly up and down with 'Hateno Island' at the top, or at least High 1-C (For Kodama's world which is created out of M-Theory) possibly High 1-B.

This structure is contained within 'The Movie Theatre World' where these worlds are each represented by a strip of film that an 'observer' can edit or alter to their liking which would be 11-D (for encompassing infinite 10-D universes) or possibly Low 1-A

'The Darkness' encompases all these worlds and is devoid entirely of dimensions. It erases any dimensional structure except for the school or the students that interact with it which should make it 12-D or possibly 1-A

'The Real World' or the original world seems to possess a Reality > Fiction difference to all of the above making it 13-D or further into 1-A

Hopefully this should clarify the confusion about the structure.

Happy to make another thread but I found/fixed the blog faster then I anticipated.

 

[Georredannea15]

So I have added some more details about the nature of 'This Worlds' being able to support higher dimensions.

I have also clarrified that 'This Worlds' not being real is simply in relation to 'The Real World'

Have added more information showing 'This Worlds' have separate timelines.

TLDR:

There are infinite 'This Worlds' that are capable of supporting higher dimensional structures. These worlds are contained within each other endlessly up and down with 'Hateno Island' at the top, or at least High 1-C (For Kodama's world which is created out of M-Theory) possibly High 1-B.

This structure is contained within 'The Movie Theatre World' where these worlds are each represented by a strip of film that an 'observer' can edit or alter to their liking which would be 11-D (for encompassing infinite 10-D universes) or possibly Low 1-A

'The Darkness' encompases all these worlds and is devoid entirely of dimensions. It erases any dimensional structure except for the school or the students that interact with it which should make it 12-D or possibly 1-A

'The Real World' or the original world seems to possess a Reality > Fiction difference to all of the above making it 13-D or further into 1-A

Hopefully this should clarify the confusion about the structure.

Happy to make another thread but I found/fixed the blog faster then I anticipated.

To be honest, the cosmology blog was a bit long, so I only read few part, so I'll comment on this comment.

These endless worlds appear to be nested within each other and characters find entrances to them within every day inanimate objects like tables and pieces of cloth.

This seems to be a 2-A but I think with a few comments you want to move it to H1-B from the larger space-time infinities that are intertwined.(This is my understanding, please correct me if I am wrong)


But I don't think this will be enough for H1-B. It looks like a good 2-A example. And as far as I remember, another infinite spacetime containing a spacetime could still be 4-D.

Apart from that, you argue that this is an R>F since "'The Movie Theatre World" can change "this world" like a ribbon. But this is more like Reality Warping than R>F. For R>F you have to be more real than the lower plane. The R>F standards are getting tougher these days.

As for the darkness, I think I agree with Dread, it's more like a bridge between "these worlds" and the "real world". I'll have another look, but for now I'm in this mindset. Ehhh there seems to be an R>F difference between the real world and these worlds, each of which is Low 2-C. Inaccessible and incomprehensible compared to these worlds makes it Low 1-C, yes.


But one thing caught my attention. In a scene in the cosmology block, it is stated that these worlds extend forever in every directions. If it can be proved that each of them is different, I think it could be H1-B. If not, you could try "possibly" H1-B.

If there are any missing or incorrect points, please let me know and I will review them again.

 

[Blackcurrant91]

To be honest, the cosmology blog was a bit long, so I only read few part, so I'll comment on this comment.


This seems to be a 2-A but I think with a few comments you want to move it to H1-B from the larger space-time infinities that are intertwined.(This is my understanding, please correct me if I am wrong)

I don't think 2-A applies here as individual universes are capable of supporting higher D structures and are made out of higher D structures themselves.

Kodama's world is formed based on M-Theory.

A big them of the work as the director states it is that 'there are higher and lower dimensional worlds' because he was inspired by Flatland when creating the show.

 

[Blackcurrant91]

am I explaining the higher D stuff wrong? People seem to be stuck on 2-A stuff when it seems innapropriate considering the nature of higher dimensions in verse.

 

[Georredannea15]

I don't think 2-A applies here as individual universes are capable of supporting higher D structures and are made out of higher D structures themselves.

Frankly, i didn't see that. It looks more like a comment. However, if you support this comment with a few specific contexts without a direct statement, it would no longer be a comment and it would be as you say. But as I said, I could not see these contexts.

Kodama's world is formed based on M-Theory.

We don't use M theory directly. Just like we don't use hilbert space and other things directly

 

[Blackcurrant91]

Frankly, i didn't see that. It looks more like a comment. However, if you support this comment with a few specific contexts without a direct statement, it would no longer be a comment and it would be as you say. But as I said, I could not see these contexts.

There is much more then just his comment on this. We see lower D and Higher D worlds directly. Characters themselves postulate on higher dimensions being required to support the structure of 'This Worlds'

We don't use M theory directly. Just like we don't use hilbert space and other things directly

This is more of an example of a world based on a higher Dimensional Theory.

I know we don't strictly use it for tiering, the author themselves simply used it because it's a theory of 'Everything' but considering there is infinite worlds and some are lower d and some are higher D, would it not suggest a structure of endless universes where some are literally higher dimensional compared to the one below it? I would suggest just reading the 'higher dimensions' part of the blog only.

The director states that if a theory exists in our world that it can be found within 'This Worlds' if one goes far enough.

Be it something you might call a “bird” or “war” or something you can’t quite understand, Kodama’s power, if we were to put it into one word, would be the “M theory” that is known as the “unified field theory”, something that governs even the 11 dimensions of physics. If something exists in this world, then it even exists in the work, except how deep you would have to dig down for it is something that one couldn’t possibly understand, so at the end of the day, that, too, becomes “something that exists as something that can’t be understood” in its own right.

 

[Georredannea15]

There is much more then just his comment on this. We see lower D and Higher D worlds directly. Characters themselves postulate on higher dimensions being required to support the structure of 'This Worlds'

In fact, they are still more like intertwined worlds, my opinion is still same.

 

[Blackcurrant91]

It just seems weird that we would have statements from characters and from the director about there being literal higher and lower dimensional worlds (something that is depicted in the story literally) and just hand wave this away.

 

[ImmortalDread]

You've done an excellent job with the blog update.
It has put me in a position where I can now shift my perspective to be more rational. I'll share my thoughts shortly.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Prior to commencing the process of gathering my thoughts, could you provide some context for the image? For instance, has there been any discussion regarding this particular scene? I believe incorporating such information holds significance.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Prior to commencing the process of gathering my thoughts, could you provide some context for the image? For instance, has there been any discussion regarding this particular scene? I believe incorporating such information holds significance.

Looks topology related.

 

[Blackcurrant91]

Prior to commencing the process of gathering my thoughts, could you provide some context for the image? For instance, has there been any discussion regarding this particular scene? I believe incorporating such information holds significance.

This scene is Rajdhani (the smartest character in the series) trying to determine how they have been transported into the Darkness. Unfortunately most of the information provided by the series doesn't get directly elaborated on and is instead told through environmental story telling such as this.

The director stated the following

I admit there are many absurd aspects of the world of Sonny Boy that provoke questions like “Why is this like that?”, but the real world is also like that, so I wondered if I could tamper with physics motifs, multidimensional theory, quantum theory, and apply them to an anime world.

We actually see similar objects in the finale that are meant to represent 'This Worlds'

 

[Blackcurrant91]

If you aren't worried about spoilers I would encourage you to watch this sequence.

 

[ImmortalDread]

To begin with, I concur with the mere notion of the existence of higher dimensions, as it is ambiguously supported by the author's intention and their interpretation. The most crucial element here is the visual representation. Indeed, visuals hold significance since comprehending higher dimensions in visual context is impossible, but we can always attempt to interpret them to some extent within the confines of a three-dimensional framework. Despite this, it doesn't prevent us from considering the possibility that the author was referring to higher dimensions.

However, I'm not inclined to assign a definitive rating to “these worlds." Instead, my evaluation spans from 2D up to at least 1-B (varies rating). I haven't completed my reading yet, so I need to explore the rationale behind the high 1-B assessment.

 

[Georredannea15]

Ahhh I just read the blog and yes, some of the author's statements and other things are an indication of the existence of higher dimensions here, especially when the author says that this 2 dimensional world is one of the lower dimensions, would it be a direct scaling... that is debatable but I am now sure that higher dimensions exist. As for the profile...I'm not moved 1-A for now. I'll read it and the damn thing is a bit too long

 

[Blackcurrant91]

However, I'm not inclined to assign a definitive rating to “these worlds." Instead, my evaluation spans from 2D up to at least 1-B (varies rating). I haven't completed my reading yet, so I need to explore the rationale behind the high 1-B assessment.

High 1-B for me is due to worlds containing higher d structures and there are a seemingly endless amount of them nested within each other.

 

[Blackcurrant91]

Blackcurrant91/sandboxasakaze

vsbattles.fandom.com

character more suited for fights.

 

[ImmortalDread]

High 1-B for me is due to worlds containing higher d structures and there are a seemingly endless amount of them nested within each other.

I'm not entirely convinced about the existence of infinite spatial dimensions. Moreover, I don't believe that each story introduces a progressively superior qualitative level compared to the others. What I gather, within the given context, is that these endless stories resemble low 2-C structure, with one potentially standing apart from the others based on its spatial structure.

However, I can grasp the point being made here: given the endless nature of stories, the pre-existing concept of a 2-dimensional world, and the visual representation of M-theory, it becomes apparent that an attempt is being made to establish a connection. The argument suggests that with an infinite array of stories, it wouldn't be unfounded to speculate that this could extend to a high 1-B tier.

I find this argument reasonable, to be honest. Nonetheless, my personal inclination still leans toward a spectrum spanning from 2-D to at least 11 dimensions, possibly high 1-B tier.

 

[Blackcurrant91]

I'm not entirely convinced about the existence of infinite spatial dimensions. Moreover, I don't believe that each story introduces a progressively superior qualitative level compared to the others. What I gather, within the given context, is that these endless stories resemble low 2-C structure, with one potentially standing apart from the others based on its spatial structure.

However, I can grasp the point being made here: given the endless nature of stories, the pre-existing concept of a 2-dimensional world, and the visual representation of M-theory, it becomes apparent that an attempt is being made to establish a connection. The argument suggests that with an infinite array of stories, it wouldn't be unfounded to speculate that this could extend to a high 1-B tier.

I find this argument reasonable, to be honest. Nonetheless, my personal inclination still leans toward a spectrum spanning from 2-D to a minimum of 11 dimensions, potentially reaching a high 1-B level.

I find this to be a very reasonable interperetation and does get to the heart of my argument.

So for the array of 'This Worlds' we would have something like 'Varies from 11-A to High 1-C, possibly High 1-B'?

I am curious on your thoughts on the movie theatre world in this case? As it is seemingly just another 'This World' but also contains all worlds simultaneously within endless rows of film reels (an entire universe able to be projected onto a screen) would this count as 'encompassing' the previous structure? Or is this what you meant by 11-D?

 

[ImmortalDread]

In my assessment, the movie theater can be classified as high-tier 1-B structural framework. The “varies” tiering is for “this worlds”.

 

[Blackcurrant91]

Oh so straight up High 1-B for movie theatre world? that makes sense actually, the only reason I ask is because the movie theatre world is also a 'This World' technically (which I guess where my 'nested universes' idea came from, as in if a higher universe can contain the contents of a lower one)

Would this provide the darkness with a 'possibly 1-A' rating or?

 

[ImmortalDread]

From a contextual vantage point, the construction appears to be imbued with creativity, affording the latitude for this particular construal. This is the rationale behind my inquiry for “varies” rating. As is commonly understood, "this worlds" under consideration possesses heterogeneous spatial characteristics, thus the potentiality of accommodating a configuration inclusive of 1-B setting does not run counter to the conceptual framework of "this worlds."

To illustrate by way of example, consider a set denoted as X — a collection of disparate spaces, each governed by unique laws and spatial properties. Within this ambit, there exists a subset that pertains to X, and this subset encompasses an unbounded array of akin spaces, characterized by their own disparate regulatory paradigms. This structure is by no means devoid of logic, as it is fundamentally rooted in the precept that the existence of distinct regulations engenders the feasibility of divergent functionalities and spatial attributes.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Would this provide the darkness with a 'possibly 1-A' rating or?

I remain somewhat unconvinced regarding its classification as a structure; however, I am inclined to view it more as a gateway.

 

[Blackcurrant91]

I remain somewhat unconvinced regarding its classification as a structure; however, I am inclined to view it more as a gateway.

Only reason I thought it may posses qualitative superiority is that it is seemingly incapable of supporting an actual world other then the school and the students, erasing any worlds upon contact.

 

[ImmortalDread]

The only thing I find unconvincing is how you arrived at the conclusion that they have endless structures branching off from there. The scan never mentions it, and I'm also curious about your interpretation of the term "endless void," given that they are able to cross it with a simple FTL ship.

If it truly is endless void, not even FTL could cross it which also eliminate the point of endless structures existence to begin with. Additionally, the illustrations they provided in that scene appear to resemble a “wormhole” to me. Surprisingly, this interpretation still fits the context, as the main objective was to reach The Real World, which exists in another higher qualitative location.

 

[ImmortalDread]

AniList

anilist.co

The author here never mention it, or is the “darkness” your terminology?

 

[Blackcurrant91]

The only thing I find unconvincing is how you arrived at the conclusion that they have endless structures branching off from there.

This is from inferring it through the pictures drawn on the chalkboards of this worlds and how they record them, they appear to be layered on top of each other.

The scan never mentions it, and I'm also curious about your interpretation of the term "endless void," given that they are able to cross it with a simple FTL ship.

I should clarify they where only able to get to the edge of it with an FTL ship. They could only get back there with one of Mizohu's compasses which they previously didnt have. Once there they used Asakaze's and Mizuho's power to move across the surface of this worlds.

If it truly is endless void, not even FTL could cross it which also eliminate the point of endless structures existence to begin with. Additionally, the illustrations they provided in that scene appear to resemble a “wormhole” to me. Surprisingly, this interpretation still fits the context, as the main objective was to reach The Real World, which exists in another location.

They where able to get home due to Mizuho's power of superposition, or closing the box of possibilities, FTL was required for them to get to the 'Entrance of Dimensions' as it's described or the start of the Darkness/Void.

 

[Blackcurrant91]

AniList

anilist.co

The author here never mention it, or is the “darkness” your terminology?

'The Darkness' is what it's referred to in the first scan of the blog.



This is where the 'branching' worlds come from too