Sonic's weakness.

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I know that, but Monkey D. Luffy says hi. Using a character's Tier isn't really a counter argument against elemental weakness either. Even Tier 2, Massively FTL+ characters have shown to be in danger of drowning before.

Fiction is weird like this yes. Again, didn't argue against it being removed, just saying use something other than their tier or speed ratings.

 

[KarmodF]

@Medeus

Nobody was arguing that you said sonic wasnt FTL, but that Naka is the only reason was FTL, you should actually analyze what people say you know.

So, the statement has nothing to do here, because we arent discussing about Classic Sonic but Modern as shown in every reply and link, you know there is a difference between water resistance and a weakness like fearing water or not being able to swinm right? Like a huge one... the fact that one is an attack and the other a phobia? Mostly when the character has already shown to not have a problem and adapted to travel water without swimming.

No. The dragon ball comparassion is me showing how both Tori and Naka have misconceptions about their characters, like stating one thing only to be shown to be false by actual feats, I heavily doubt you didnt understand my point or you tried to look like you are evading it just to reply with some dumb stuff that doesnt adress the obvious point.

I love how you said you didnt want to go off-topic only to put half a paragraph of thing nobody cares, ironic. Anyways, yes, Sonic is powered by the wisps, If you played the game you should know that there is a gauge that shows the wisp in use, but since you completely evade the point I made in the dragon ball comparassion I think it would be better to point the obvious, the video Maverick linked shows Sonic without a wisp being able to hop underwater no problem endlessly, meaning he would not have a problem:

1. Running underwater. 2. Getting out of it.

And not being able to swim is still considered a weakness even when in Adventure he is shown to run on water no problem.

If you werent against the weakness, then why go the extra mile trying to defend it when we already have feats debunking them?

Anyways, can somebody remove the weakness as most people have already agreed upon them and close the thread?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I did analyze what people said, but apparently, no one analyzed what I said. Modern Sonic still has his share of showings that he doesn't like water either; even going as far as needing floaties in Mario & Sonic at the Olympic games. Sonic still doesn't naturally float in water, and wasn't talking about water elemental attacks, but also the inability to float/swim.

Toriyama was still a bad example, and I don't really your attitude shown in that paragraph. Accusing a staff member of avoiding the point just because you didn't understand their side isn't the way to go. Did I misunderstand, perhaps, but I actually did address the main point. You can't compare a number to someone's view of water; plain and simple.

I seen Mavericks video, but there are other points. Having an empty gauge =/= no wisp being present. It was literally part of the cutscenes that there were wisps protecting Sonic all throughout the entirety of the game. Even the showing in Colors isn't swimming the traditional way; it's still him somewhat struggling to push out of water Vs most people floating naturally. And even then, Sonic Colors is literally the only instance of Sonic actually swimming in deep water.

Running on water =/= swimming, it's just using sheer speed to run on top of water for short time periods or running through it. It's not like he naturally floats or and stationarility stand on water. Also, in Adventures, he can jump out of swimming pools and other not so deep waters naturally. But not once has he used one jump to go from the bottom of the ocean to the surface.

I wasn't entirely against that weakness being removed yes, but I was against the reasoning behind it or just having no mention of water. And I was simply defending myself against the strawmans being thrown at me, which I have every right to. Rather, it would be preferable to have it altered. It might be better to ask someone like Matthew Schroeder since he's knowledgeable plus we would need approval from at least one Admin.

 

[KarmodF]

I would like to stop wasting my time at such badly constructed points and adress the fact that Dark, Nedge (?) and Wokistan at least agree with the individual points in regards to the sleeping & swimming

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Everyone agreed with sleeping part being removed, Nedge only commented about the sleeping part, and DarkAnine didn't really elaborate much and was before the more detailed comments were pointed out.

 

[KarmodF]

No I was the one saying that a high 6-A having a weakness to drowning is bizarre since lol jumping with legs that should be able to output that amount of force. Fiction is just weird in general when it comes to falling and water though

He can outright swim in colors, at least the wii version.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Yes, Wokistan agreed with that part, but was talking about the other 2. But being High 6-A still isn't an argument against having a weakness to drowning in water. On topic, his lifting strength is only Class 10 and range with colors powers is only hundreds of meters. It actually requires some degree of lifting strength to jump really high in one leap without flying, and jumping from bottom of the ocean to the surface is like a 10 kilometer range feat.

 

[KarmodF]

Why highballing to the bottom of the ocean? He has been shown to jump great distances, hell, his jumping is even greater than Mario's.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Giving an example of how Sonic never jumped that high out of water and proving that he can drown. Sonic jumps around several meters regularly yes and has occasionally jumped hundreds of meters yes. Mario's a derailment, but Mario and Luigi actually jump a lot higher than that in the Galaxy games.

 

[KarmodF]

Why I need an example of him jumping in water when he has already been shown that his normal jumps are able to reach more than the Km mark.

Also he can just hop in water indefinitly and doesnt even need oxygen.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Actually, if he stays underwater for too long in most games, he will die. And there's bubbles that provide oxygen is how he saves himself. There are power ups that allow him to breath underwater and/or the wisp that travels with Sonic in Colors provides him with oxygen. But jumping indefinitely in water =/= swimming/floating in the traditional sense.

 

[KarmodF]

He still is able to move underwater without restriction and jump infefinitely, i dont see how swimming can be better than that.

Not to mention he has been shown to survive without oxygen in the first game, not being able to breath underwater in the first game is just game mechanics.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Actually, the opposite is true. Being able to survive underwater forever is game mechanics. In Sonic Adventure, even spending too much time in the swimming pool kills you. Plenty of characters are inconsistent with being able to survive underwater and not; not to mention power ups to enable breathing underwater exist for a reason.

 

[KarmodF]

not to mention power ups to enable breathing underwater exist for a reason.

Because they are based to counter the game mechanics lol.

Sonic has been consistently portrayed to be in space without problem more times than he has been shown to drown.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

So have a lot of characters; it's better to assume they can hold their breath for long periods rather than just not needing oxygen to survive.

 

[KarmodF]

But that would mean they can hold Oxygen for over Half and hour. Not to mention he can create oxygen bubbles.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Yes, dying too fast in water would be game mechanics, but superhuman stamina is a thing. Holding their breath for a few hours makes more sense then just outright saying they don't need oxygen to survive.

 

[Wokistan]

Gys, don't argue over pedanticism like this. This sort of pettiness gets nothing done.

 

[Corgi_the_Gen_Z_God]

Yeah I don't agree with Sonic's weakness being water. In the games at least.

 

[Magi_Hussie]

hi violet

 

[Elizhaa]

I guess these can be removed since there is major agreements

 

[Corgi_the_Gen_Z_God]

hi violet

You?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I will close this thread then.