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Sonic's weakness.

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KarmodF

KarmodF

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Sonic is also incapable of swimming and sinks like a stone in water due to aquaphobia, although he does not demonstrate that fear very often. If Sonic doesn't get his minimum 8 hours of sleep, then his lack of sleep will affect his running.
Where does this come from? The only sonic that has some sort of aquaphobia is Sonic X's Sonic, as in Generations he is able to burst trough water and has been shown to create bubbles with oxygen to survive on water, also why being incapable of swimming a weakness? Many characters dont know how to swim but that weakness isnt listened in their page.

I heavily doubt the 8 hours of sleep, as Sonic has been shown to be constantly traveling for a day or two in games like Heroes, Adventure or Generations.
 
I think the swimming thing comes from the fact if he lands in water in SA1 and 2, he instantly dies. Not sure if that kind of stuff counts as Game Mechanics or not.
 
For the other points (Sinks like a stone and the 8 hours one):

The sinks like a stone is horrible argument knowing how he has a FTL speed, not to mention he can freely run underwater in levels like Water Palace (Sonic Rush).

I dont even know the 8 hours of sleep one as I previously said, perhaps thats something real hedgehogs do? But If anything It should also be remove as he has been shown to be active for entire days, like in Sonic 06, Colors, etc...
 
KarmodF said:
But If anything It should also be remove as he has been shown to be active for entire days, like in Sonic 06, Colors, etc...
Click to expand...
The feats would mean that the weakness is not valid anymore
 
The eight hours of sleep thing is definitely way too contradictory to be on the profile.

Sonic being incapable of swimming does seem like a weakness, but he definitely isn't afraid of water (considering his various experiences in aquatic environments).
 
He can outright swim in colors, at least the wii version.
 
@Karmod Usually all hedgehogs are supposed to be natural swimmers but for Sonic, that doesn't appear to be the case and why he has that incapability of swimming weakness and I see why that may not sometimes be considered a we....wait a second, all devit fruit users in One Piece has that. Also, "has been shown to create bubbles with oxygen to survive on water" doesn't disprove that weakness at all as he needs to rely on that bubble ability he uses to get through underwater.

"he is able to burst trough water," I'm assuming you mean Sonic running on the water which is actually different than swimming underwater. So if Sonic attempts to jump in & swim underwater without abilities, then you would know what would the outcome of that be.

The required amount of sleep weakness probably applies to a specific version of Sonic most likely.
 
I mean, I heavily doubt 50% of the characters in the wiki cant swim, and I dont see that weakness added to them, the other point is quite dumb, its like saying, "yeah this guy cant fly, he can teleport to anywhere in the universe and stay there for an unlimited amount of time, but flying? Nope".

By "he is able to burst trough water" I was adressing this point: "sinks like a stone in water due to aquaphobia" as he doesnt even come close to just sink like stone when he has been shown to easily traverse it. And yes I know the outcome, he would create a bubble of oxygen and burst trough the water, because he has a far better way to traverse water than swimming.

You would need better reasoning to let that stay when a lot of feats contradict it.
 
@Karmod Yea, ik. Some characters have this weakness and some don't. Not being able to flying isn't considered as a weakness rather than not being able to swim.

Yea, exactly why he would need to use his abilities so that wouldn't be a problem in the first place.
 
I think "burst through water" was referring to Sonic showing to be able to jump endlessly while underwater in Sonic Colors. Plus things like the Drill Wisp, Aqua Shield, and even his common Boost can greatly improve his maneuverability in aquatic environments, allowing him to basically overcome the weakness.

The weakness of needing 8 hours of sleep is contradicted by every itration of Game Sonic. Classic, Adventure, and Modern Sonic all show to be able to maintain stamina for several days at a time without losing any speed.
 
Point is, some of these weaknesses need to be removed. 8 hours of sleep is contradicted constantly when Sonic goes on long and arduous adventures with little to no rest whatsoever.

Sinking like a stone is also contradicted, the guy seems like he goes through water perfectly fine. He's fought Perfect Chaos on top of that in Generations pretty easily as well. Ass Wokistan pointed out as alongside that, he can even swim in Sonic Colors for the Wii.
 
There was an article about this here. The creator initially assumed that Hedgehogs can't swim but didn't know that till after the game was nearly finished and was too late to start over. So the creator basically decided to make water Sonic's kryptonite. Is it a weakness he has ways around or can overcome? Yes, just like how Superman has defeated beings made of Kryptonite or use magic despite that being his weakness. Also, Chaos being made of water was literally intended to be the equivalent of Superman fighting Matello; a being made of kryptonite.

Obviously, Sonic does various power ups to nullify the "Can't swim" argument like certain shields and especially the Super Sonic power up. But deep water is still Sonic's most iconic weakness. The "Needing 8 hours of sleep" thing can be removed; that does strongly contradict his feats.
 
Water being a weakness for a high 6-A is weird, since they'd be able to jump out of any depth of water with that sort of force, but I guess it's just kind of a thing, until you can swim in colors.
 
He is so weak underwater that he can easily jump trough it and run as fast as when he is on land.

Also, Chaos being made of water was literally intended to be the equivalent of Superman fighting Matello; a being made of kryptonite.
Where was this even mention? Chaos was made of water most likely due to graphics, not to represent one of Sonic's weakness as he already was able to go underwater without problem... in the same game where Chaos was introduced.

Sonic's creator tought that he cant swim "cuz my logic" and those kinds of thinking autors have, Super Saiyan was 10 times boost according to Akira Toriyama when SSJ Goku first came out, and ever since it was retcon from 50 times to indefinite, I mean, there is over hundreds of feats contradicting the creator's intetion, It would be like downgrading Demonbane to 2-A due to autor's statements and belives of his cosmology.
 
No one said he's that weak underwater. Yes he can still jump and run, but he can't float the traditional way. He he's actually noticeably slower underwater than his is on land; just not overwhelmingly so. And he also doesn't breath underwater unless he touches bubbles or has a shield power up.

In Sonic Colors, he was enhanced by Wisps to grant him the ability too swim. Also, people really need to stop making making Dragon Ball comparison; that's like the grand champion of strawman. And Demonbane was based on he hasn't touched it in 10 years or mistranslations; Taka actually works on Sonic regularly. And keep in mind that his statements were the only reason FTL Base Sonic was actually accepted. And he had a few "Combat speed" feats which are legit; such as dodging a laser. Most occurrences portray his travel speed at like Mach 8, he's still FTL regardless, but we don't use our statistics ratings to argue against weakness to water.

Again, a minor weakness is still a weakness. Also that's where the creators got the idea of Chaos being made of water or liquid like substance was from Sonic's notable weakness to water.
 
>Empowered by the Wisp to swim.

You Serious?-1507256016
You Serious?-1507256016

No we dont need to stop doing Dragon Ball comparassion and that wasnt a strawman, it was a similar comparassion to what you posted above, the Demonbane statement was made 10 years ago while you are using an outdated reference that has no base, was made during the development of the first game and using arguments similar to mines just that yours where using Superman as a comparassion instead of Goku? wow.

Sonic is FTL because he has consistantly shown FTL feats, not because the autor said so, If that was the case we would completely ignore it as it would have no way to backup his statement.

Its a weakness so minor that it actually gave him the willing to adapt and go as fast on water as on land, create a oxygen bubble and jump endlessly on water.
 
Sonic and Shadow can use the light speed attack.

Shadow can also react to light speed circuits in his own game.

So FTL Base Sonic isn't only statements.
 
I mean, Matthew has a similar way of acting in threads and nobody complains.

Also why is the thread filled with unecessary categories like Hax and Intelligence?
 
@Karmod Two wrongs don't make a right, and two pieces of bread don't make a sandwich... Wait a minute.

Anyways, the sleep weakness can definitely be removed as agreed with by everyone.
 
I'll comeback in a minute; after I make my Yu Yu Hakusho revision thread. But I agree with Snake that there's no need to get worked up; and even Admins have gotten warnings for inappropriate behavior in the past.
 
@Shadow Thanks for removing the unecessary topics.

I think we have all agreed on everything here except the swimming part which has its holes in the argument.

Staying on the weakness topic, Sonic's cocky attitude still aplies to his Super form as seen in Unleashed we're he was humillating Eggman, which backfired at the end resulting in the game's plot. Commenting this so we dont make a thread apart for such a minor edit.
 
@Karmod That's true, but to be honest, I think his overconfidence was due to it being... Well, Eggman. He made a joke out of him for years, it'd be pretty obvious why he'd display overconfidence towards him specifically.

Looking at any other occasion, he's never been extremely cocky and took his fights rather seriously. Perfect Chaos, Ultimate Gemerl, Time Eater, Solaris, etc.
 
Yeah was thinking of that, It would be too specific to be added then.

Also why Darkspine's weakness is that he is too violent, wasnt he just pissed off due to Shahra's dead rather than an actual requirement for the transformation? Or I am getting something wrong about it?
 
@Maverick I guess that makes a lot of more sense why he shouldn't have the weakness.

@DarkDragon Well that problem has been solved with another interview you provided for it, so I agree with removing his aquaphobia and his other weakness (due to its apparent contradictions and all that).
 
For one, I never argued that Base Sonic wasn't FTL; yes he does have a few combat speed feats, short burst movements speed feats, and statements on that level, but he doesn't normally run FTL in the long run when he traveling; just pointing that part out. Actually, it was the creator himself who proved the 8 times FTL calc.

Also, there is a big difference between old school and outdated. The article I listed was only old, but outdated wasn't the right word. Or at least it was true to Classic Sonic. Still, being FTL isn't a solid argument to argue against weakness to water. There do exists Massively FTL+ characters who have weaknesses to water, fire, bright lights, the wind, the sun, the moon, or even loud sounds. Saying it's absurd for an FTL character to be in capable of swimming is similar to using Calc Stacking.

And the reason the Dragon Ball thing is false equivalency is because one, this isn't about Saiyan multipliers or multipliers in general, it's just an elemental weakness. Literally equivalent of Kryptonite, which is again, an elemental weakness. Or just, in general; Dragon Ball is always the most frequently brought up verse when people argue against a downgrade while blatantly ignoring the fact that Ki Control is a staple; it's that cliche but that's off topic.

Anyway, I've played Sonic Colors myself and seen Chuggaconroy's; the greatest LP'er on the internet, LP. I even ranked Aquarium Water park as what's possibly the best water level in gaming; aside from maybe Ancient Cistern from Skyward Sword or some of the Donkey Kong Country levels. I do remember that Sonic is literally enhanced by Wisps on just about every stage. Also, it's literally a staple in every game that Sonic himself even states he hates water and "can't swim." Which is also shown in game as well. He slows down, he needs to jump high enough to get out, ect. But Power ups can handle it.

Again, I'm not at all against the weakness to water getting removed, I'm simply pointing out the misconceptions, and other scientific details. I agreed with the sleeping part being removed. And Sonic does have a laid back personality and known for joking around sometimes, but he's not overly arrogant yes.
 
I don't see how saying that a high 6-A can impart a high 6-A force is akin to calc stacking.
 
Said nothing about a the High 6-A tier, just means speed and attack potency aren't always interchangeable. And never said being FTL was calc stacking, I simply said using the character speed rating to argue against being unable to swim is similar to that.
 
No I was the one saying that a high 6-A having a weakness to drowning is bizarre since lol jumping with legs that should be able to output that amount of force. Fiction is just weird in general when it comes to falling and water though
 
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