Sonic vs. Meta-Cooler(s) (GRACE)

[Eden_Warlock99]

Sonic (Post-Ultimate Emerl) vs. Meta-Cooler

• Both are 3-C
• Speed is equal
• Sonic only possesses the Blue Emerald
• Fight takes place on New Namek, a dozen or so kilometers away from the Big Gete Star
• Metal Cooler upscales from 216.152 ZettaFoe and Sonic is 59.567 Zettafoe, >119.134 Zettafoe with Emerald

Sonic: 11 (Omegabronic, Fezzih_007, McFriesGuy075, GlaceonGamez471, Monsters_fight, Huesito88, The_Unknown_Warrior1, Maverick_Zero_X, LaserPrecision, Gilad_Hyperstar, JJSliderman)

Cooler: 3 (TegamiBachi25, XXBenShapiroXx, RenderGK)

Incon: 3 (Ottavio_Merluzzo, Ednaxel2, Robo432343)

 

[JJSliderman]

I don’t like Sonic’s chances here, he’s facing down an army of robots with infinite stamina, all stronger than him.

 

[Omegabronic]

I don’t like Sonic’s chances here, he’s facing down an army of robots with infinite stamina, all stronger than him.

AD made Sonic reach 3-C while he was 4-B in short few minutes...........plus, the Emeralds give infinite energy and a multiplier each, soooo


Will analise this later when i am free

 

[Huesito88]

I wonder if speed can be unequalized here?

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

I wonder if speed can be unequalized here?

I believe that if we go with the High-End for Goku's spaceship, they both would end up at around 7 Billion c.
Though, I honestly have no idea which end was accepted for the ship and this is going with the assumption that Goku only fully scaled to it after going SSJ on Namek.

 

[McFriesGuy075]

Is he cooler than Sonic?

 

[Fezzih_007]

Can't Sonic just use Super Sonic If he gets overwhelmed?

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Can't Sonic just use Super Sonic If he gets overwhelmed?

Nothing stops us from restricting it, no?

 

[Fezzih_007]

Nothing stops us from restricting it, no?

Did you restricted? Because the OP don't mention he can't use It.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Ok you restricted now.

I want to see Omega bring up the wank arguments for Sonic, because what I seeing his only wincon for now is BFR the big gete star away.

Sonic can't win If he don't get rid off the big gete star, and he was no privious knowlegement of It so he won't target right away. He probally could figure It out, but is not very likely. Sonic does have a emerald to create clones, but that's still way less that Meta cooler have. And he can kill all of them with a SuperNova too.

I think meta cooler gonna overwhelmed Sonic with his Army of 10 billions clones and Win tbh, so I voting him.

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

Hmm, I'm not too sure about this one.

Sonic's busted af AD, speed amps, and other items of usage could theoretically allow him to overpower and overwhelm Meta Cooler. But Meta Cooler's Reactive Evolution, infinite stamina, and generating hundreds of equally powerful Meta Coolers would enable him to overwhelm Sonic through sheer numbers alone.

Honestly I'm seeing a Meta Cooler W here more than a Sonic W, but I'm not an expert when it comes to what sort of equipment and abilities Adventure era Sonic has so this is me just spit balling. Still, I think I'm going to vote for Meta Cooler for now.

 

[TegamiBachi25]

Cooler Cooler Frieza no brother FRA

 

[Omegabronic]

Sonic's AD + the Emerald's multiplier will allow him to always be in the AP Advantage here, no matter what, and his quite absurd advantage in term of skill will allow him to swiftly take care of any Meta Cooler that comes his way, large number do not really matter much as Sonic is quite used 1 v soloing entire armies by himself, he has several options to immediatly neutralize any Meta Cooler that come his way if they by any chance become too much

* Very good acrobatics that would allow him to bounce between several Meta Coolers at once

* Ring Time allows him to instantly turn any Meta Cooler close to him into Rings for him to use

* Rings make it so that Cooler literally cannot harm him in anyway

* Magic hands would allow him to seal Meta Coolers

* His regen negation allows him to simply say lol no to Meta Coolers regenerating

* His passive restoration as he runs makes it so that any damage Cooler does manage to do to him be.....kind of pointless

* His power mimicry could allow him to copy Cooler's moves and use against him

* His speed amps would make him see all Meta Coolers as nearly Frozen in place + his ability to summon power sneakers to amp his speed even more + Rings amplifying his speed even more

* Outside of his stamina to keep fighting for 3 days straight, Sonic also has rings to passively heal him and regenerate his stamina, making sure that he does not get tired

* Has several forms of Time Manipulation to stop Cooler in time, slow him down, etc

* Using Water he can......become water, thus being in a state where Cooler can't really hurt him at all with physical attacks

* Using Avatar he can continuosly making clones if he ever feels overwelmed, and with Chaos Control he can not only stop time or BFR Cooler to get rid of all Meta Coolers if he feels needed, he can also use one of his clones for a double Chaos Control to go back in Time for his advantage

* Last Chance would allow him to revive in the eventuality that he is indeed killed

* Can use his Sonic Guard to create a purple shield that blocks even attacks that can one shot him, absorbing the energy of the attack to himself for the Ichiroko Gauge, which would one shot people comparable to Sonic himself, the Energy going up from taking attacks, blocking or healing himself

phew, with everything i listed above, Meta Cooler actually killing Sonic will be a very difficult task in all regards, so now all that Sonic would need to do is to find Core Meta Cooler and the Big Gete star to destroy both and get on with his day, due to SBA rules, Sonic knows what Cooler actually looks like, so he would know that these "Meta Coolers" are not the true dude he needs to beat, given his numerous options to evade, continuosly incapacitate, passively or not, all the Meta Coolers + His numerous "i see you as frozen" speed amps would allow him to eventually find the Big Gete star, as he would obviously keep looking for his enemy, at which case he has.......oh so many options to destroy Core Cooler or completely incapacitate him

it is more of a matter of "when" rather than "if" for Sonic to win, imo

therefore i vote for Sonic here

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

If I'm understanding this correctly, Sonic has a x128 multiplier at all times thanks to the Chaos Emeralds? And his actual AP would be 7624 Zettafoe?

 

[McFriesGuy075]

If I'm understanding this correctly, Sonic has a x128 multiplier at all times thanks to the Chaos Emeralds? And his actual AP would be 7624 Zettafoe?

without chaos emeralds, as he surpassed Emerl, who had all 7 chaos emeralds amplifiers + the final egg blaster's power. Sonic had no emeralds there.

So Sonic can still amplify himself with the emeralds. misunderstood the question

 

[McFriesGuy075]

without chaos emeralds, as he surpassed Emerl, who had all 7 chaos emeralds amplifiers + the final egg blaster's power. Sonic had no emeralds there.

So Sonic can still amplify himself with the emeralds.

Whoops, my bad. Sonic is 59.567 zettafoe, i misunderstood. He can amplify himself with the emeralds to become 7624 zettafoe i think

 

[TegamiBachi25]

Oh shit, wouldn't it be a AP/speed blitz stomp then?

 

[Omegabronic]

Sonic's AD + the Emerald's multiplier will allow him to always be in the AP Advantage here, no matter what, and his quite absurd advantage in term of skill will allow him to swiftly take care of any Meta Cooler that comes his way, large number do not really matter much as Sonic is quite used 1 v soloing entire armies by himself, he has several options to immediatly neutralize any Meta Cooler that come his way if they by any chance become too much

* Very good acrobatics that would allow him to bounce between several Meta Coolers at once

* Ring Time allows him to instantly turn any Meta Cooler close to him into Rings for him to use

* Rings make it so that Cooler literally cannot harm him in anyway

* Magic hands would allow him to seal Meta Coolers

* His regen negation allows him to simply say lol no to Meta Coolers regenerating

* His passive restoration as he runs makes it so that any damage Cooler does manage to do to him be.....kind of pointless

* His power mimicry could allow him to copy Cooler's moves and use against him

* His speed amps would make him see all Meta Coolers as nearly Frozen in place + his ability to summon power sneakers to amp his speed even more + Rings amplifying his speed even more

* Outside of his stamina to keep fighting for 3 days straight, Sonic also has rings to passively heal him and regenerate his stamina, making sure that he does not get tired

* Has several forms of Time Manipulation to stop Cooler in time, slow him down, etc

* Using Water he can......become water, thus being in a state where Cooler can't really hurt him at all with physical attacks

* Using Avatar he can continuosly making clones if he ever feels overwelmed, and with Chaos Control he can not only stop time or BFR Cooler to get rid of all Meta Coolers if he feels needed, he can also use one of his clones for a double Chaos Control to go back in Time for his advantage

* Last Chance would allow him to revive in the eventuality that he is indeed killed

* Can use his Sonic Guard to create a purple shield that blocks even attacks that can one shot him, absorbing the energy of the attack to himself for the Ichiroko Gauge, which would one shot people comparable to Sonic himself, the Energy going up from taking attacks, blocking or healing himself

phew, with everything i listed above, Meta Cooler actually killing Sonic will be a very difficult task in all regards, so now all that Sonic would need to do is to find Core Meta Cooler and the Big Gete star to destroy both and get on with his day, due to SBA rules, Sonic knows what Cooler actually looks like, so he would know that these "Meta Coolers" are not the true dude he needs to beat, given his numerous options to evade, continuosly incapacitate, passively or not, all the Meta Coolers + His numerous "i see you as frozen" speed amps would allow him to eventually find the Big Gete star, as he would obviously keep looking for his enemy, at which case he has.......oh so many options to destroy Core Cooler or completely incapacitate him

it is more of a matter of "when" rather than "if" for Sonic to win, imo

therefore i vote for Sonic here

btw since they are only 12 Kilometers away......he will find it immediatly since, you know

If I'm understanding this correctly, Sonic has a x128 multiplier at all times thanks to the Chaos Emeralds? And his actual AP would be 7624 Zettafoe?

each Emerald is >>>>>>>>> 2x Multiplier, so just don't give him all 7 and it will be ok, you can still reduce the number of Emeralds

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

each Emerald is >>>>>>>>> 2x Multiplier, so just don't give him all 7 and it will be ok, you can still reduce the number of Emeralds

Ah, I see. One Emerald should keep it fair then, Blue Emerald specifically cause Avatar feels pretty thematic here.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Sonic's AD + the Emerald's multiplier will allow him to always be in the AP Advantage here, no matter what,

I don't know about that, Meta cooler Reactive evolution is also very good since he goes to fighting base Goku, to overwhelme SSJ Goku and Vegeta at the same time.

So like, I agree he would have the AP advantage, but not a overwhelme advantaged as you suggest, to the point cooler can't harm him.

large number do not really matter much as Sonic is quite used 1 v soloing entire armies by himself,

True, but how many times Sonic fought a army of 10 billions people, who all can grow almost as strong as him?

* Rings make it so that Cooler literally cannot harm him in anyway

Well, since the rings go flying of after one attack, this just gonna be temporaly. And Meta cooler could also grab the rings to use.

* Ring Time allows him to instantly turn any Meta Cooler close to him into Rings for him to use

Is that even IC for him to use in his adventure Key? Because I don't think he ever have that in of his game of the adventure era.

* His passive restoration as he runs makes it so that any damage Cooler does manage to do to him be.....kind of pointless

It depends, since the army of meta cooler can use Death Beam to do piercing demage directly in either Sonic brain or heart to kill him.

* His power mimicry could allow him to copy Cooler's moves and use against him

Like what?

His regen negation allows him to simply say lol no to Meta Coolers regenerating

Probally not, since the type of Regen Sonic can neg is different from Meta Cooler Regen. Sonic would need to neg machine Type Regen.

His speed amps would make him see all Meta Coolers as nearly Frozen in place + his ability to summon power sneakers to amp his speed even more + Rings amplifying his speed even more

Meta Cooler RE could probally bridge the Gap tbh.

Using Avatar he can continuosly making clones if he ever feels overwelmed

Cooler could probally kill them all with multiplies Super Nova.

he can also use one of his clones for a double Chaos Control to go back in Time for his advantage

Does he even know he can do that in this Key? He only does in 2006.

phew

Phew lol



Anyway, I agree with Omega in some things, so I voting Sonic Fra.

 

[Omegabronic]

I don't know about that, Meta cooler Reactive evolution is also very good since he goes to fighting base Goku, to overwhelme SSJ Goku and Vegeta at the same time.

So like, I agree he would have the AP advantage, but not a overwhelme advantaged as you suggest, to the point cooler can't harm him.

??????? when have i said as much?

True, but how many times Sonic fought a army of 10 billions people, who all can grow almost as strong as him?

several times when he fought Eggman's robots, plus......where is the font for the 10 billion thing?

Well, since the rings go flying of after one attack, this just gonna be temporaly.

which Sonic can use the Light speed dash to collect them all, plus he would only lose like, 4, since Meta Cooler would be very equal in AP to him

And Meta cooler could also grab the rings to use.

nope, he doesn't have the Absorption of rings necessary for him to do that, holding them is not enough, you need to absorb them in the right way to use them

Is that even IC for him to use in his adventure Key? Because I don't think he ever have that in of his game of the adventure era.

if he sees he needs to, he obviously will, he ain't dumb

It depends, since the army of meta cooler can use Death Beam to do piercing demage directly in either Sonic brain or heart to kill him.

That is assuming it is strong enough to pierce Sonic, or that he can't evade or block

Like what?

energy attacks mostly

Probally not, since the type of Regen Sonic can neg is different from Meta Cooler Regen. Sonic would need to neg machine Type Regen.

......no? both are regen, and he can negate regen, i don't see anything in the regen page that would make Sonic need "machine type regen neg".....in fact i don't even know where you got that from

Meta Cooler RE could probally bridge the Gap tbh.

from what you said, Meta Cooler's made him go from kind of inferior to ssj goku to his superior, at most a 50x gap.......Sonic's made him go from Solar System level to Galaxy level, so his is not enough to keep up with Sonic's

Cooler could probally kill them all with multiplies Super Nova.

nah, AD, Sonic will grow to the level of the Super Nova, plus his amps would make him dodge anyway, Chaos Control at last resort

Does he even know he can do that in this Key? He only does in 2006.

huh, good point

Anyway, I agree with Omega in some things, so I voting Sonic Fra.

see some merit in what you said as well, glad we could talk

 

[Flashlight237]

I dunno, man. The Meta-Coolers numbered at the hundreds according to Daizenshuu 6 at the most conservative of estimates and 10 billion at the most outlandish of estimates (according to one interpretation of the movie title). Sonic is better off trying to duke it out with Cooler (which is pretty much what Goku and Vegeta needed to do to kill the entire army of Meta-Coolers).

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

from what you said, Meta Cooler's made him go from kind of inferior to ssj goku to his superior, at most a 50x gap.......Sonic's made him go from Solar System level to Galaxy level, so his is not enough to keep up with Sonic's

From my understanding, Sonic's AD only really becomes sextillions times a second crazy when he's going up against someone significantly more powerful than him/he's at a significant disadvantage, and it isn't nearly as prominent when he's going up against those around his level of power (Shadow and Infinite are the biggest examples I think).

 

[Omegabronic]

From my understanding, Sonic's AD only really becomes sextillions times a second crazy when he's going up against someone significantly more powerful than him/he's at a significant disadvantage, and it isn't nearly as prominent when he's going up against those around his level of power (Shadow and Infinite biggest examples of such I think).

oh no, i didn't meant he would go that far much stronger so fast, just that any growth Cooler has will be countered by Sonic's no matter what

I dunno, man. The Meta-Coolers numbered at the hundreds according to Daizenshuu 6 at the most conservative of estimates and 10 billion at the most outlandish of estimates (according to one interpretation of the movie title).

yeah, but Sonic has experience being outnumbered heavily by comparable opponents, altho

Sonic is better off trying to duke it out with Cooler (which is pretty much what Goku and Vegeta needed to do to kill the entire army of Meta-Coolers).

this is also true, which is what he eventually do, i mean, he will realize this continuous robots are coming from the.......big metal thing in the horizon, eventually

 

[Monsters_fight]

Sonic FRA

 

[RenderGK]

Cooler

 

[Huesito88]

Sonic

 

[Flashlight237]

I mean, I guess, but at the same time fictional mobs don't usually get that big. Coca Cola needed to sell bottles for five days to get as many bottles of Coke as there are Meta-Coolers on the higher-end, and while I ain't sure about Robotnik's robot production figures, I highly doubt they're that high.

 

[McFriesGuy075]

Sonic FRA

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

Vote Cooler, don't buy Sonic being able negate his regen, or his RE being able to adapt in time before being overwhelmed. 10 billion is just too much, especially ones that can use IT.

 

[LaserPrecision]

"I dunnoooo, can Sonic really take on an entire fleet of robots comparable to him physically? That seems like a tall task-"

Yes, that's literally the opening of Sonic Unleashed. Dude solo's an entire army of bots that downscale from himself. Sonic's just going to tear through hundreds of Metal Coolers while he heads to the massive Big Gette Star in the horizon and destroys that too.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Yes, that's literally the opening of Sonic Unleashed. Dude solo's an entire army of bots that downscale from himself. Sonic's just going to tear through hundreds of Metal Coolers while he heads to the massive Big Gette Star in the horizon and destroys that too.

I recall him sorta just running through most of those? I don't think Sonic would really be capable one-shotting the Coolers here, especially since each one gets stronger and faster the more he damages them.

Btw I'm unable to add the votes to OP at the moment, will do so as soon as I get the chance.

 

[Fezzih_007]

......no? both are regen, and he can negate regen,

I mean logically, Sonic would need to have feats of negating regen like MC type, since Cooler regen is different from what he can negate.

His regen negation works by... him killing chaos and him not regerating and is not explained directly how he did. So I guess all his normal attacks can keep people from regenerating.
But is different from Metal Cooler, since the BGT just resconstructed the part that is broken, like he recreate the part broken with more mass. Which is not the same as Chaos regen,

Is like the vampires of Type moon who can regen by having their body rewind in time. So you need to have a ability to negate that rewind, not just a normal ability of regen negation.

Or like, the Demon slayers can neg regeneration of the flash. Don't mean they can negen regen from metal.

i don't see anything in the regen page that would make Sonic need "machine type regen neg"

Would be weird if you do, since we don't a regen negation page.
We do have a powernull page, which says a similar thing.
My point being, even if he can for some reason negate Chaos regen, don't mean he do the same with Cooler, since is not the same.

 

[GlaceonGamez471]

Even if Sonic starts to get overwhelmed by the sheer amount of Coolers gunning for his ass, Chaos Control is a pretty good get out of jail free card that can also assist in his goal of getting to the star to confront his actual foe here.
Personally, I believe Sonic's skillset is enough to break through it all the army and deal with the core here, Sonic FRA

 

[Omegabronic]

I mean, I guess, but at the same time fictional mobs don't usually get that big. Coca Cola needed to sell bottles for five days to get as many bottles of Coke as there are Meta-Coolers on the higher-end, and while I ain't sure about Robotnik's robot production figures, I highly doubt they're that high.

i still want to know where the 10 billion thing comes from

Vote Cooler, don't buy Sonic being able negate his regen

why not?

or his RE being able to adapt in time before being overwhelmed.

i mean, it did in mere minutes against a very much bigger gap, don't see why it wouldn't here

10 billion is just too much, especially ones that can use IT.

btw where is the source for the 10 billion thing? i cannot find any mention of it in the profile

regardless........how does Cooler counter being Frozen in Time with Chaos Control for Sonic to get to the Big Gete star and destroy it? or Teleporting there with Chaos Control as well?

Ring Time trasmutating all Coolers that come for Sonic while giving Sonic rings to protect himself from any blow Cooler does seems like the biggest counter for Cooler here ngl, i legit have no idea how Cooler could possibly deal with that

 

[Omegabronic]

I mean logically, Sonic would need to have feats of negating regen like MC type, since Cooler regen is different from what he can negate.

it.....isn't? both Chaos and Cooler are rebuilding/healing themselves from Damage they took earlier........again, the Regen page has both examples with living things and machinery to be the same type, you are saying based on nothing tbh

His regen negation works by... him killing chaos and him not regerating and is not explained directly how he did. So I guess all his normal attacks can keep people from regenerating.
But is different from Metal Cooler, since the BGT just resconstructed the part that is broken, like he recreate the part broken with more mass. Which is not the same as Chaos regen,

yeah.......which happens by having the individual Meta Coolers regen/fix themselves, so yeah, it is the same thing as Chaos as they are doing the same thing, regenerating damage by having their own bodies fix themselves

again, you are saying they are different based on really nothing

Is like the vampires of Type moon who can regen by having their body rewind in time. So you need to have a ability to negate that rewind, not just a normal ability of regen negation.

no cause Coolers case is literally just regeneration "oh but it is their bodies fixing themselves".......yeah, like, all standard regenerations there are

Or like, the Demon slayers can neg regeneration of the flash. Don't mean they can negen regen from metal.

in Demon Slayer, they have a special metal to go against a weakness of Demons, not the same context or situation here at all

Would be weird if you do, since we don't a regen negation page.

i do? do what? the regen page treats both Machine and Living beings regen as the same thing, even giving both examples in the same way

We do have a powernull page, which says a similar thing.

no, that talks about power "t is to be assumed that any negation power has its limitations based on the strongest thing it has nullified", not type, not hax, it is purely talking about the strongest thing it has to regen, in this case, Sonic can neg far stronger regen than what Cooler has shown, thus this example doesn't matter as it just reaffirms what i have been telling you

My point being, even if he can for some reason negate Chaos regen, don't mean he do the same with Cooler, since is not the same.

it is the same, you shown nothing that would suggest otherwise

plus Ring Time just makes this null anyway

 

[LaserPrecision]

I recall him sorta just running through most of those? I don't think Sonic would really be capable one-shotting the Coolers here, especially since each one gets stronger and faster the more he damages them.

Btw I'm unable to add the votes to OP at the moment, will do so as soon as I get the chance.

He was tearing them apart really quickly by running on and around individual bots, dashing through them, and maybe boosting? Either way, Sonic could very much one-shot the Coolers. When he home attacks, he can cut through enemies equal to or stronger than him by sharpening his quills. And he'd be having the AP advantage pretty much the entire fight.

 

[Flashlight237]

i still want to know where the 10 billion thing comes from

Again, it comes from one interpretation of the movie's title: https://dragonball.fandom.com/wiki/Dragon_Ball_Z:_The_Return_of_Cooler

 

[Fezzih_007]

So like, I doubt we gonna agree in this point, and Sonic can get around Meta cooler regen with other means even if he can't neg his regen, so I not gonna continue arguing this point.

plus Ring Time just makes this null anyway

True.

 

[Omegabronic]

Again, it comes from one interpretation of the movie's title: https://dragonball.fandom.com/wiki/Dragon_Ball_Z:_The_Return_of_Cooler

huh, aren't there like, several other Robots that are not Meta Cooler made by the Big Gete Star in the movie as well? saying it is only talking about the Meta Coolers is.....not based on anything, if the Daizenshuu really said only "Hundreds" then the other billions may just be all the other robots he has