Sonic The Hedgehog Vs. Omega (Mega Man Zero)

[HokageKirby161]

No Darkspine Sonic

 

[Reppuzan]

Pretty sure Omega blitzes if Sonic starts in Base. Even then Omega wrecks Sonic in every category outside of Darkspine and maybe Hyper Sonic .

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Same with you, Reppu. Taking a quick whiff of their stats, Omega blitzez Sonic here, and just wrecks all versions of him sans Darkspine.

 

[ClassicGameGuys]

Didn't Darkspine get downgraded to planetary? Because Omega is so much faster and well into the large star level range it's kinda one sided in his favour if so. Also does Omega have the Dark Elf here?

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Didn't Darkspine get downgraded to planetary? Because Omega is so much faster and well into the large star level range it's kinda one sided in his favour if so. Also does Omega have the Dark Elf here?

Huh. Didn't see that part on Sonic's page.

 

[MasterWinduTheThird]

Then Omega wins this easily.

 

[Reppuzan]

Would it be alright to add this to Omega's victories then?

 

[MasterWinduTheThird]

Sure

 

[Reppuzan]

Seems pretty unanimous so yea, I guess I'm going ahead.

 

[Unclechairman]

Didn't Darkspine get downgraded to planetary? Because Omega is so much faster and well into the large star level range it's kinda one sided in his favour if so. Also does Omega have the Dark Elf here?

I know I'm late, but Darkspine Sonic wasn't "downgraded"; rather, the staff besides me and Darkness (if I recall) had reservations about putting him at solid universal because of the world of Arabian Nights not having a defined size (and consequentially, the question of whether or not Alf-Layla-Wa-Layla was warping a universe or a planet-sized pocket dimension). As such, they just listed him as "possibly 3-A".

I don't know why he was brought up, though, considering OP stated in no uncertain terms that Sonic does not have his Darkspine form here.

 

[RedXMatrix123]

Is this argument over, cause I want to argue in Sonic's favour if I may.

 

[Reppuzan]

I think it's over, but no one is going to stop you (doesn't seem like anyone's going to close this thread).

Do remember that this is game Sonic's stats rather than Archie Sonic's.

 

[RedXMatrix123]

I think it's over, but no one is going to stop you (doesn't seem like anyone's going to close this thread).

Do remember that this is game Sonic's stats rather than Archie Sonic's.

Alright I gotcha, thanks. Guess I'll start with some power feats

 

[RedXMatrix123]

Just for starters, Sonic has fought against Star level+ robots such as Ultimate Emerl. Ultimate Emerl copied power from a device known as the Final Egg Blaster, which demonstrated the power to destroy multiple stars with a single burst. Along with that, Ultimate Emerl from Shadow, Tails, Knuckles, Amy Rouge, E-102 Gamma, Cream (with her broken healing), Chaos 0, and even Sonic himself...

but Sonic, without his typical holding back style of fighting, defeated Ultimate Emerl in his base form in a 10-round match that lasted for a combined total of less than a minute (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoQ5ThVfgCo 8:02-8:20 The world would have exploded if he wasn't beaten within the minute.)

 

[Reppuzan]

Well that's interesting. The Sonic Wiki puts him at Planet Busting oddly enough, but that does certainly close the AP gap somewhat (we don't exactly know how large those stars are unless you have a picture or video available).

Does he have anything to bridge the speed gap?

 

[RedXMatrix123]

Well that's interesting. The Sonic Wiki puts him at Planet Busting oddly enough, but that does certainly close the AP gap somewhat (we don't exactly know how large those stars are unless you have a picture or video available).

Does he have anything to bridge the speed gap?

Hmmm...as for speed, it's fair to agree that Base Sonic is FTL right? Well, looking into Omega's profile, I guess I have to find more MFTL feats, huh? I'll be right back!

 

[RedXMatrix123]

I'll also try to find something for those stars as well.

 

[RedXMatrix123]

As for MFTL feats... (borrowed from Ultimatesonic91 from here...) "Sonic is capable of travelling between universes: https://youtu.be/Zmn4UCBbXKM Skip to 4:38. "Ran endlessly until he found his way back to his own world". That right there is universal travel since he WAS stuck in a parallel universe. And even if you want to low ball this saying their universes are Galaxy sized, Sonic would still be around a hundred thousand times the speed of light if he took a year to get back.

http://i.imgur.com/0F1fzzV.png http://i.imgur.com/IQ9hjPM.png

Sonic Generations, The Hedgehogs' shown having the ability to restore and have speed running through time & space. Somewhat like warping, if I may" (...to here)

Others of my own looking include Sonic going into a different dimension (the Special stages) by using his speed and Sonic CD. In Palmtree Panic, Sonic didn't have the time stones with him at that point, so he had to rely on his speed to go into the past and future. I'm pretty sure the Time Post were game mechanics.

Also, if Super Sonic isn't disregarded, multiplies the current feats I listed by...a lot (probably 1000X).

 

[Reppuzan]

I don't really know. His current profile simply lists Arabian Nights as another planet. Plus Dimensional Travel =/= speed (if anything he could have just found a portal, the game is particularly vague on how he gets to different places).

I do know that running fast enough to travel through time is simply a FTL+ feat unless stated otherwise (time dilates as one approaches the speed of light).

I'm no Sonic expert, so I'll have to leave the appraisal of these feats to someone else.

 

[RedXMatrix123]

As for the star size, consider the following

1.)The Final Egg Blaster activated Emerl's original program, which forced him to break free will obtained by the 7 Chaos Emeralds, and establish a new link with the overwhelming power of the said blaster. 2.) Without a doubt, it had the power to completely obliterate the Earth 3.) The stars would have to be somewhere around , according to research, 50 to 100 light-years from the Earth for the Earth to be unharmed. And even if they were "small stars",The smallest known star right now is OGLE-TR-122b, a red dwarf star. According to even more research, this red dwarf is the smallest star to ever have its radius accurately measured; 0.12 solar radii. This works out to be 167,000 km. That's only 20% larger than Jupiter. So basically, a group of just this star alone would still prove to be a good feat, right?

 

[Reppuzan]

That's true, but Dwarf Star is still significantly below Omega's Large Star Level+ potency and durability.

 

[RedXMatrix123]

That's true, but Dwarf Star is still significantly below Omega's Large Star Level+ potency and durability.

Before I continue, are you able to better explain how Omega's defense is Large Star Level+. I'm not trying to debunk it exactly, but just want to understand what Sonic's dealing with here.

 

[Reppuzan]

Zero has taken hits from X, who is capable of this level of energy Generation. Omega uses Zero's original body, albeit amped to its physical limits, thus giving him this durability.

 

[RedXMatrix123]

Zero has taken hits from X, who is capable of this level of energy Generation. Omega uses Zero's original body, albeit amped to its physical limits, thus giving him this durability.

Ookay, not trying to argue that. I'll just continue if I may.

 

[RedXMatrix123]

I don't really know. His current profile simply lists Arabian Nights as another planet. Plus Dimensional Travel =/= speed (if anything he could have just found a portal, the game is particularly vague on how he gets to different places).

I do know that running fast enough to travel through time is simply a FTL+ feat unless stated otherwise (time dilates as one approaches the speed of light).

I'm no Sonic expert, so I'll have to leave the appraisal of these feats to someone else.

Nevermind, I'll just start now. (1.) whhaaaatttt? There's a whole level (Night Palace) depicting Sonic in space!(

) As for the portal argument, the cutscenes depict him running from place to place...buuuuttttt there are portals in Night Palace however, but they warp to space to just different parts of Night Palace

(2.) Well, I don't think I can be the judge of it either,sooooo :/

(3.) How much is MFTL? Reason why I asked is because The SPD meter in Sonic Unleashed showed that Sonic's light-speed dash clocks in at 396 SPD. The fastest you can clock in at in this game is when Sonic is boosting and he clocks in at 2,800 SPD. 2,800/396=7.07 This shows that Base Sonic can run up to Seven times faster than light.

4.) Again, there's still Super Sonic.

5.) I have more feats, but I'm having trouble distinguishing FTL and MFTL. Can you list at least one feat that makes Omega MFTL?

 

[RedXMatrix123]

That's true, but Dwarf Star is still significantly below Omega's Large Star Level+ potency and durability.

(1.) What's one star compared to a GROUP of stars, unless that one star was the sun, of course.

(2.) After some more research, I found out that Class G stars are within that 50-100 light years away. G in this case may not stand for "giant" however, but there are supergiant stars associated with Class G stars.

 

[Reppuzan]

The thing is, does this scale to Sonic though? From what I've read Emerl took control of the cannon rather than do it himself. Controlling machinery doesn't make you straight up Star level, it gives you that potency because you wield it. Thus Emerl himself could be Large Planet level, but the weapon he used to fire it is Large Star to Multi-Star level (Low-end Solar System)

 

[RedXMatrix123]

The thing is, does this scale to Sonic though? From what I've read Emerl took control of the cannon rather than do it himself. Controlling machinery doesn't make you straight up Star level, it gives you that potency because you wield it. Thus Emerl himself could be Large Planet level, but the weapon he used to fire it is Large Star to Multi-Star level (Low-end Solar System)

You're right in the fact that Emerl took control of it and simply just aimed the blaster towards Earth, but by observing the power, he also kept it within himself. Let's backstep for a second...

Emerl's principal power is his ability to perfectly copy and mimic the powers and abilities of the things around him. In battle, Emerl can observe any combat techniques or even unique abilities, such as super speed, Chaos Powers, super strength, voices etc., store them as data and then execute them with unnerving accuracy and precision, allowing him to grow exponentially stronger after each battle he participates in.

If Emerl himself is not physically capable of performing a technique (Tails' Flight ability, for example), he mimics it in another way (in this case, by spinning his arms around his body like a helicopter). This is especially apparent in the case of Chaos' attacks: he is liquid and malleable, which Emerl is not).

The point? Emerl simply used that power he got from the Final Egg Blaster, and used to enhance/alter his current abilities by that much power, this becoming "Ultimate Emerl". If you look at link of Sonic Battle that I sent some time ago, you can just compare from Emerl earlier on when he was fighting Eggman, and (Ultimate) Emerl fighting Sonic. The moves are dratically different to the point where they just look broken.

 

[Reppuzan]

I dunno... The wiki says that Emerl didn't in fact copy the Final Egg Blaster but instead was overwhelmed by the display and thus couldn't copy it and was driven insane. The reason for his increase in power was the fact that he reverted to his base programming as a killing machine, thus granting him access to his entire repository of knowledge at once, compiling everything he knows into destructive attacks he wouldn't have used otherwise.

 

[RedXMatrix123]

I dunno... The wiki says that Emerl didn't in fact copy the Final Egg Blaster but instead was overwhelmed by the display and thus couldn't copy it and was driven insane. The reason for his increase in power was the fact that he reverted to his base programming as a killing machine, thus granting him access to his entire repository of knowledge at once, compiling everything he knows into destructive attacks he wouldn't have used otherwise.

He had the attacks beforehand, so that argument wouldn't explain how he just happened to upgrade/enhance each and every one of his moves he previously had in his disposal.

 

[Reppuzan]

I'm not saying he didn't have those moves, I'm saying that he simply didn't use them to their maximum potential since Sonic and Co. were trying to teach him right from wrong. Thus he wasn't using 100% of his power. His Ultimate Form releases these inhibitions and thus he creates far more powerful (and thus lethal) techniques by combining attacks he wouldn't before under Sonic's instructions.

I'd like to compare this to Zero. Zero is an immensely powerful combatant, but is only seen using the level of power intended by Wily in the bad ending where he enters his "Awakening Mode" and thus reverts back to his murderous programming, allowing him to fight using even more powerful versions of his signature attacks that are referred to as "Shin" or True versions of them.

Emerl is much in the same way in that he also reverts back to his base programming, removing any inhibitions and thus letting him unleash his full power.

 

[RedXMatrix123]

Actually...you make a very, very solid point there. *Applauds*

But now that brings me to this: Ultimate Emerl still had the 7 Chaos Emeralds + Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Amy, Shadow, Cream, Rouge, Chaos Gamma, and Chaos 0's data. And again, Base Sonic took him out in less than a minute. Wouldn't that account for something useful in this thread, especially regarding feats from (part of) the main cast combined into 1 being +Emeralds?

And keep in mind that we still have Super Sonic to bridge the gap in AP, unless we're only taking Base Sonic into consideration now.

 

[RedXMatrix123]

I'm not saying he didn't have those moves, I'm saying that he simply didn't use them to their maximum potential since Sonic and Co. were trying to teach him right from wrong. Thus he wasn't using 100% of his power.

HOLD IT. There's one thing I overlooked. After he got the last emerald from Shadow. Shadow ordered Emerl to go fight everyone else, then him. After Emerl eventually did all that, Sonic ordered to fight him and Shadow at the same time with Sonic quoting "No holding back" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7A78U1s32qs 54:27. 24:28 is when Shadow hands over the last emerald) Obviously, Sonic had to be holding back at that point (since he defeated Ultimate Emerl w/o powerups), so Emerl had to put everything he got trying to take Sonic down Sonic. I guess Sonic just faked defeat after witness Emerl's full potential in that current state.

So if I'm correct, there had to be another power source that Emerl had to enhace his power in Ultimate form, i.e. the Final Egg Blaster

 

[Reppuzan]

I'm not saying he didn't get stronger, but we don't know how much stronger. Leeching energy off of a Multi-Star Cannon doesn't make you Multi-Star unless you absorb all of it, which Emerl didn't.

 

[RedXMatrix123]

I'm not saying he didn't get stronger, but we don't know how much stronger. Leeching energy off of a Multi-Star Cannon doesn't make you Multi-Star unless you absorb all of it, which Emerl didn't.

OK, I understand. I'm just going to go ahead and agree with you right now unless I happen to stumble on something.

But this still brings me to a few points still standing: Base Sonic being MFTL and Super Sonic.

 

[Reppuzan]

I'm not sure how the feats listed translate into speed, you're going to have to ask someone who knows more about sonic than me or a mod to get a solid answer.

 

[Alice_Liddel_in_WikiLand]

Just to point this out. How Emerl even being planet buster is consistent with the rest of the Sonic games? In Sonic Unleashed. Super Sonic had a bad time fighting Dark Gaia. Who is an explicit planet buster.

 

[RedXMatrix123]

How often does a mod come to an open thread?

 

[RedXMatrix123]

Just to point this out. How Emerl even being planet buster is consistent with the rest of the Sonic games? In Sonic Unleashed. Super Sonic had a bad time fighting Dark Gaia. Who is an explicit planet buster.

It could be that Sonic Battle simply takes place after Sonic Unleashed.

 

[Alice_Liddel_in_WikiLand]

Just to point this out. How Emerl even being planet buster is consistent with the rest of the Sonic games? In Sonic Unleashed. Super Sonic had a bad time fighting Dark Gaia. Who is an explicit planet buster.

It could be that Sonic Battle simply takes place after Sonic Unleashed.

How so? Sonic Unleashed was released after Sonic Battle. And in Generations it is imply that the games have linear time (I.E: If x game was released in 2004 and y game was released in 2005. Then y takes place after x) and this is seen multiple times (Sonic Adventure 2 - Heroes - Shadow The Hedghog, ect) the games are always sequels unless it is stated otherwise.