Sonic The Hedgehog Vs. Omega (Mega Man Zero)

[RedXMatrix123]

For instance, it seemed obvious to me that regardless of being released before the game "Shadow the Hedgehog", Sonic Battle in fact took place after those events since Shadow had fully remebered Maria in that game (Sonic Battle) and not in his own (until towards middle-end).

Point? Release dates didn't = the chronology of Sonic games.

 

[Alice_Liddel_in_WikiLand]

For instance, it seemed obvious to me that regardless of being released before the game "Shadow the Hedgehog", Sonic Battle in fact took place after those events since Shadow had fully remebered Maria in that game (Sonic Battle) and not in his own (until towards middle-end).
Point? Release dates didn't = the chronology of Sonic games.

Yes. But even them it's obvious that time is linear. In Sonic Generations its even more clear because the events are told in the order they were released. Sonic Battle just seems like a weird spin-off that wasn't mean to fit the mainline chronology.

 

[RedXMatrix123]

Are you getting the chronology from the music room in Sonic Generations?

Considering that the storyline got a sequel with the introduction of Gemerl (the robot made from what was left from Emerl's data) in Sonic Advance 3, I would still think it would fit in the main canon.

 

[Alice_Liddel_in_WikiLand]

Are you getting the chronology from the music room in Sonic Generations?
Considering that the storyline got a sequel with the introduction of Gemerl (the robot made from what was left from Emerl's data) in Sonic Advance 3, I would still think it would fit in the main canon.

More for things like. The fact that Sonic's birthday is the same as his birthday in real life.How is it showed (Present Sonic is literally present Sonic since Adventure) ect

And i wouldn't consider Advance either. The main canon is usually the one that appears in great releases for home consoles.

 

[RedXMatrix123]

Yes and yes, but there were focusing on canon home console games. Few of the handheld games are canon as well.

What's to say that the Advance series aren't canon?

 

[RedXMatrix123]

Hellloooooooooooo????

 

[MasterWinduTheThird]

boo

 

[RedXMatrix123]

Boo who? (ba dum tss)

 

[Unclechairman]

I've addressed base Sonic defeating Ultimate Emerl in a couple threads before this one. To my knowledge, Emerl at the time was powered by the seven Chaos Emeralds, making Ultimate Emerl a Super form of sorts for Emerl.

In this light, base Sonic defeating Ultimate Emerl, a being with the power of all seven Chaos Emeralds, especially in the way he did (within 30 seconds) is massively inconsistent with the rest of the series, as it would imply Sonic in his base form has power on the level of Super forms, which makes one question why he ever needs his Super form to deal with beings of such a level. The only way to resolve this outside of simply disregarding it is to take Super Sonic as being stronger than other Super forms for some reason, which would force us to rescale virtually every major character as all of their Super forms are scaled from Super Sonic.

TL;DR: PIS that is inconsistent with how the rest of the series portrays Super forms.

 

[Epsilight]

I've addressed base Sonic defeating Ultimate Emerl in a couple threads before this one. To my knowledge, Emerl at the time was powered by the seven Chaos Emeralds, making Ultimate Emerl a Super form of sorts for Emerl.
In this light, base Sonic defeating Ultimate Emerl, a being with the power of all seven Chaos Emeralds, especially in the way he did (within 30 seconds) is massively inconsistent with the rest of the series, as it would imply Sonic in his base form has power on the level of Super forms, which makes one question why he ever needs his Super form to deal with beings of such a level. The only way to resolve this outside of simply disregarding it is to take Super Sonic as being stronger than other Super forms for some reason, which would force us to rescale virtually every major character as all of their Super forms are scaled from Super Sonic.

TL;DR: PIS that is inconsistent with how the rest of the series portrays Super forms.

It isn't PIS, characters like sonic who have been using chaos emeralds for a long time and are masters at chaos control can tap into much more energy of the chaos controls rather than someone like emerl. Super sonic had to defeat perfect chaos but base sonic can do so in generations.

 

[RedXMatrix123]

It isn't PIS, characters like sonic who have been using chaos emeralds for a long time and are masters at chaos control can tap into much more energy of the chaos controls rather than someone like emerl. Super sonic had to defeat perfect chaos but base sonic can do so in generations.

But Emerl lived for a thousands of years, I believe. He must (and was stated to) have had exposure to it.

So it could have simply been that Sonic has gotten stronger. For instance, as you said, Base Sonic defeated Perfect Chaos, a feat in which he needed his Super Form before.

After Sonic Adventure, Sonic could have just trained harder to become as strong as "Sonic Adventure Super Sonic".

 

[Epsilight]

It isn't PIS, characters like sonic who have been using chaos emeralds for a long time and are masters at chaos control can tap into much more energy of the chaos controls rather than someone like emerl. Super sonic had to defeat perfect chaos but base sonic can do so in generations.

But Emerl lived for a thousands of years, I believe. He must (and was stated to) have had exposure to it.
So it could have simply been that Sonic has gotten stronger. For instance, as you said, Base Sonic defeated Perfect Chaos, a feat in which he needed his Super Form before.

After Sonic Adventure, Sonic could have just trained harder to become as strong as "Sonic Adventure Super Sonic".

But, sonic is relatively gifted in chaos control, he literally learnt it by seeing shadow do it just once. I believe, sonic has been, through his continous use of chaos emeralds, begun to absorb some of their power as that only explains his absurd power increase ( he doesn't seem to train either way ).

 

[FkFany]

It really looks like Sonic is winning here

 

[Reppuzan]

Please look at their accepted character stat pages and rethink that before you make blanket statements without evidence.

Apparently Sonic Battles also clashes with the canon of other games as explained here.

 

[RedXMatrix123]

But, sonic is relatively gifted in chaos control, he literally learnt it by seeing shadow do it just once. I believe, sonic has been, through his continous use of chaos emeralds, begun to absorb some of their power as that only explains his absurd power increase ( he doesn't seem to train either way ).

Hmmmm....you seem to be on to something... but I believe something like that would be stated somewhere. I'm not saying you're totally wrong, but I'm still a bit skeptic. Yea, Sonic seems to be gifted in harnessing the power of the Emeralds, but to my knowledge, it's not stated anywhere in the books (not including comics) or games that he absorbs the power each time he uses (of course, it could explain the green eyes...)

Plus, at least a third of Sonic Battle is just him training with other people.

 

[RedXMatrix123]

Do I have to address the canonicity of Sonic Battle again for my feats to be green-lighted?

 

[Reppuzan]

I guess, yeah. The wiki likes to take canon profiles unless stated otherwise.

 

[RedXMatrix123]

I guess, yeah. The wiki likes to take canon profiles unless stated otherwise.

Okay.

For starters, the Sonic Advance series should be canon; One reason being that Cream was introduced in the series and has since become a staple character to the series. With that, Sonic Advance 3 is the sequel to the Sonic Battle storyline l, so henceforth Sonic Battle would be canon.

 

[Reppuzan]

According to Sega Europe, Sonic's story elements are always in flux and thus certain plot elements are only valid when Sega wants them to be. One game could be in front of another game if Sega so chooses and some games may be retconned entirely.

In addition, while Cream is a recurring character, Gemerl seems to have been forgotten completely until the release of the Archie Comics.

Which solves... absolutely nothing.

 

[RedXMatrix123]

According to Sega Europe, Sonic's story elements are always in flux and thus certain plot elements are only valid when Sega wants them to be. One game could be in front of another game if Sega so chooses

But wasn't that my first argument? I said that Sonic Battle could just take place after said games like Shadow the Hedgehog.

 

[Reppuzan]

But we can neither confirm nor deny Emerl's place in the continuity due to Sega's slip-shod approach to storytelling.

 

[RedXMatrix123]

But we can neither confirm nor deny Emerl's place in the continuity due to Sega's slip-shod approach to storytelling.

Is Sonic Chronicles out of the question?

 

[Reppuzan]

I also don't know. I haven't played a single Sonic game to its conclusion outside of Sonic Heroes, but I'm not sure if you mean Sonic Chronicles (which was a DS game) or Sonic Generations (which would make more sense in the context of this conversation).

Either way, Sonic Advance 3 isn't a stage here nor does Gemerl appear, so whether or not your theory is true is up in the air from my standpoint.

 

[Unclechairman]

Is Sonic Chronicles out of the question?

Yes.

 

[NotAMarioFan(lol)]

Hasn't this thread reach to a conclusion

 

[Unclechairman]

Sonic is not gifted in using Chaos Control relative to other characters. That would be Shadow, as he has some kind of intrinsic power that lets him use Chaos powers even without a Chaos Emerald on hand, which Sonic cannot do. Also, by this logic, Super Shadow should be stronger than Super Sonic, yet he isn't, so one character being more gifted than others in using the Emeralds' power doesn't necessarily mean their Super form will be stronger than others. Super forms are simply harnessing the power of a full set of Emeralds to achieve a super-powered state. The power of Super characters are dependent on how powerful the set of Emeralds they used to achieve the state are, hence how all the Super characters are scaled to each other.

Sonic does not train. He's actually rather lazy and laid back when not adventuring or trying to save the world, so him getting stronger between games would not make much sense. Sonic isn't a Shounen protagonist who constantly trains to get stronger and lives for the fight and struggle; he's a drifter who frequently gets called off to adventure because of the schemes of a certain moustached scientist threatening his friends and his world.

Base Sonic defeating Perfect Chaos in Generations actually poses the same problems as defeating Ultimate Emerl in Battle, as Perfect Chaos is also a Super state. The only way we've managed to work around this is by not scaling Perfect Chaos to any of the other Super forms and only rating him by his own feats (i.e., flooding and destroying Station Square). This is the reason Perfect Chaos is only rated as City level despite all other Super forms being Large Planet level by scaling from Perfect Dark Gaia.

 

[RedXMatrix123]

Hasn't this thread reach to a conclusion

It was for a bit until I showed up. There weren't really any Sonic supporters and the thread wasn't closed, so I just jumped in as soon as I saw it.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Yeah, i[m just going to close this since we've already put in the results a long time ago.