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Sonic Shuffle conclusion + 06 revision

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It was mentioned in Solaris' profile that all time was merged during the battle; so that the past, present, and future became the present. And even then, everyone was still capable of movement thus severing the "Moving inside the void" bit alone as the indication of Infinite or Immeasurable speed. Solaris could be Immeasurable for other reasons, but there's other details.

And as Zamasu said, Solaris had some 4-Dimensional anchors on him that prevented him from fighting at Immeasurable speeds throughout the fight. Also, the hedgehogs where using Chaos Power techniques that had the Area of Effect and not speed to strike Solaris; such as Arrow of Light, Spear of Light, ect. Should note it was mentioned above that Solaris himself was made of Chaos energy, thus making sense that Chaos Emeralds with the ability to manipulate that could manipulate Solaris and nerf him.

I too wish someone like Matthew Schroeder or WeeklyBattles could elaborate more, but they were the two who debunked Sonic being 2-B or Immeasurable, so you'd have to convince someone like them before upgrading them. There was also Lina Shields a while back, but he's permanently retired and won't be able to commentate
 
ShadowWarrior1999 said:
A timeline is a universe.
Additionally, Eggman also says Solaris "eats dimensions for lunch."
Click to expand...
A timeline isn't just any random universe. It's an alternate universe created by some sort of time split from the original universe. The Imaginary World is just a Multiverse of Dreams, which are completely unrelated to timelines.

Again, that's just him referencing how he can actually destroy space-times. And like many people above have said, eating "dimensions" doesn't necessarily mean that he can eat multiple dimensions at once, just that he's capable of doing so. For example, a nuke is a weapon capable of destroying cities, but that doesn't mean it can destroy multiple cities at once.

Also, "eating" is just a metaphor meaning that he can destroy space-times with relative ease, not that he literally ats them.
 
@Dark

That's way better.

However, even if not physically, it would scale at least to attack speed based precisely on what you say there, assuming the anchor thing isn't legit.
 
@DarkDragonMedeus That's a bit inaccurate. Solaris didn't destroy or merge anything yet, he just reality warped the space-time continuum.

So we're still using anchoring as a crutch. Anchoring only restricts Solaris from travelling, not his reaction speeds and he wasn't anchored in Phase 2. Chaos Emeralds supposedly nerfing Solaris is complete headcanon.

The reason why Solaris wasn't 2-B was simply because Shuffle was for a strange reason considered non-canon, now it is. While I respect Matthew for being a productive staff member and I do agree with him on a lot of things, if he wants his opinion to be taken seriously then he needs to actually elaborate instead of just saying "no."
 
A timeline isn't just any random universe. It's an alternate universe created by some sort of time split from the original universe. The Imaginary World is just a Multiverse of Dreams, which are completely unrelated to timelines.

Again, that's just him referencing how he can actually destroy space-times. And like many people above have said, eating "dimensions" doesn't necessarily mean that he can eat multiple dimensions at once, just that he's capable of doing so. For example, a nuke is a weapon capable of destroying cities, but that doesn't mean it can destroy multiple cities at once.

Also, "eating" is just a metaphor meaning that he can destroy space-times with relative ease, not that he literally ats them.

It depends on the context. Here, timelines does = all other universes because of the dimensions statement.

Doesn't mean he can only do it one at a time either. In fact, "time itself will collapse and disappear into nothingness" implies that he would do it all at once.

Also I posted this in the OP. Solaris would transform "everything into nothing." Put it all together and Solaris would destroy all of existence.
 
Traveling through time is just Time Travel, not Immeasurable speed. And traveling through time just by flying is done by a lot of characters who are simply FTL. Also, it would be a massive Outlier for them to be Immeasurable since it always takes Super Sonic noticeable amounts of time to travel from point A to Point B.

Immeasurable is the ability to travel everywhere and everywhen in an instant, and react to everything from every when in an instant. Sonic lacks the "In an instant" bit and doesn't react to everything at Immeasurable speeds.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Traveling through time is just Time Travel, not Immeasurable speed. And traveling through time just by flying is done by a lot of characters who are simply FTL.
Click to expand...
If you time travel with speed alone it's immeasurable.

Some verses treat the ability to go FTL as time travel, others don't.
 
I disagree with immeasurable super forms but am fine with 2-B stuff. They destroy the armor just fine in phase 1 and for Solaris to have a core weaker enough to not be 2-B doesn't make very much sense.
 
You know what, I change my mind about Solaris being immeasurable. You don't want it being an outlier for the Hedgehogs, then Solaris instead scales to them and transcending time is being used in the same way it's used for Jiren.
 
Outlier card wasn't my only argument, there's also the second paragraph elaborated more details. And I also messaged Weekly to comment here, so maybe he could help.
 
Shadow you should just give up on immeasurable speed at this moment. Save it for another time. I think getting the Hedgehogs into 2-Bs is enough for today and since a lot of neutral and smart people joined in and said that this upgrade is fine, I think these revisions will go through.
 
Yeah, Jiren is a terrible example. That's just a 3-Dimension character with a 4-Dimensional degree of power. You should have used Zen'o vs Infinite Zamasu; which the example is, better. Since that ties in with the AoE attack rather than speed statements. But in general comparing to Dragon Ball or many other verses to Dragon Ball is inherently bad. Also, don't get "Scale from" and "Scale to" terminologies mixed up; those words are opposite.
 
I might as well make a tally for 2-B scaling

Agreement: 17 (ShadowWarrior1999, Maverick Zero X, UltimateFlare, RotofBots, Blueblur24, Elizhaa, ED INFINITUM, TISSG7Redgrave, The Smashor, GlaceonGamez471, VioletVoid100, The Axiom of Virgo, CrimsonStarFallen, ShakeResounding, DaBoiWhoOwnsMods, Mephistus, Wokistan)

Disagreement: 6 (Zamasu Chan, Matthew Schroeder, The real cal howard, Rin The Dragon Empress, Ryukama, MYHERO)

Neutral: 5 (The 2nd Existential Seed, DMB 1, Inverted Tempest, LephyrTheRevanchist, DadrkDragonMedeus)
 
I know people are getting tired of this thread, but are some really considering just throwing immeasurable out of the window completely because of it? That's... Not great.
 
Well I don't like that idea either, but in my opinion, I feel like immeasurable speed is just another huge can of worms just like 2-B. I think it's best to save it for later. One step at a time folks.
 
Dunno if this question has been asked on the thread but why are we assuming Sonic 06 Eggman(mind you Sonic 06 was originally meant to restarrt the continuity and Generations retconned that) knows about Maginary World?
 
Looks like a majority rule. 17-7 and 4 who go either way. Unless 10 more people enter the chat to say no like some Smash Ultimate "has joined the fight" thing, can we just close this and move on to Phase 2? (not about Solaris anymore)
 
This is a Quality over Quantity site, not the other way around. The vote count isn't the deciding factor, nor is it the people with different colored names. But it's the side with the most logical reasonings is what determines the outcome. Also, I said I was neutral on the hedgehogs being 2-B at their peak.
 
I'm sorry I thought you changed your mind considering how much you were arguing with Shadow. I will change it.
 
GiverOfThePeace said:
Dunno if this question has been asked on the thread but why are we assuming Sonic 06 Eggman(mind you Sonic 06 was originally meant to restarrt the continuity and Generations retconned that) knows about Maginary World?
Click to expand...
Because the games are canon. 06 also references Shadow's past in SA2, Heroes, and Shadow the Hedgehog.
 
All it mentions there is he has a mysterious past, which shouldn't even be mysterious when we alreday know it It's also clear without the Generations retcon that Shadow is meant to be portrayed differenetly as he works for the same agency that gave him that hell to begin with in 06. The games being canon doesn't suddenly change what was meant to be in the context of 06, these characters know wnothing about things like Maginary World.
 
He's not portrayed differently. Shadow working for GUN is a testament to him moving on from his past when he said he'd do so in Shadow the Hedgehog.

Generations doesn't retcon anything either. It's an anniversary game with a time travel theme.
 
According to a recent bumblekast Sega doesn't see Team Dark as part of GUN, more like hired mercenaries
 
Quantity doesn't matter when it comes to votes, no, but what are the valid reasons for disagreeing with 2-B?

Arguing game mechanics has a lot of people disagreeing with it, and being anchored doesn't have much merit considering Solaris unshackles himself during Phase 2. Even the "weak points" argument doesn't hold up, as it's treated more like plates of armor being broken off.
 
@GiverOfThePeace He needed to keep Maria's promise to protect people and even though GUN was in the wrong for the Space Colony Ark, they still are an agency of preventing disasters that can threaten the safety of humanity. Since it's in character for Shadow to take things to the extreme he decides to join them. GUN clearly does know what they did was wrong and vowed to work for the ensurance of peace for Prossefor Gerald by the end of the game. Not only that Shadow even said good bye forever to himself, obviously indicating he is no longer going to be held back from anything in the past and will start a new. Joining GUN who also would now have turned over a new leaf while it does seem bizarre it's not at all out of character for Shadow.

Sorry for me rambling about character writing on a CRT, I will stop derailing.
 
It sounds actually extrmely out of character even when you try to link the reasoning for the ending, it's one of the main reasons it's a constantly contested point about Shadow's story arc in 06. Regardlesss that can still be explained far easier via reboot then via needing to link several games together and trying to patch together a narrative that'll work(Which won't since it's Sonic 06 we're talking about along with Shadow the Hedgehog). Occam's razor here basically.
 
It's extremely out of character? No I just gave a lenghty explanation of how it isn't. I'm not denying that it was intended to be a reboot, the fact is there. My point wasn't that. It was that Shadow joining GUN is not bad writing. Yes it's a reboot, but look at all the similarities it has with the past games. Everyone seems to know each other and they interact with each other the same way they have done it the past. It's relatively the same except a few cosmetic changes, like Eggman. It's pretty clear that past games has occured in the 06 reboot.

Anyways, we can discuss this somewhere else. Let's drop this as it is a CRT and not a book club.
 
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