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Sonic Immeasurable Speed Debates Continued

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Facts don't care about feelings, so let's list the facts.

1. Silver's timeline is not affected by changes in the past, regardless of what the characters think. That's exactly why Silver's timeline is still in ruin despite the characters thinking things in the past would help.

2. Solaris' blast encompassed Sonic's timeline and the future of Silver's timeline, equating in a blast that reaches the future (AKA an Immeasurable feat).

3. The spatial distortion is a result of Solaris' AoE blast, and the story treats there being a past, present, and future regardless of the state of the timeline. Don't like it? Tough luck, that's how the game treats it.

We don't need interpretations about the story when the story is already laid out for us, and people really shouldn't be agreeing with an interpretation to an already clear story either.
 
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If the whole speed downgrade proposal gets rejected after those debates, Solaris's Immeasurable speed justification would need some reword according to what the new restrictions propose for a lot of Immeasurable speed characters on such place.

Just going to take in mind that those standards are quite weird, and I disagree with Solaris losing his Immeasurable rating anyways.
 
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I discussed this off site, but I’m starting to see my mistake. The Japanese dub calls that body of space they’re in an intersection of time and space while the dub and guide call it a rift.
This is an intersection right. Now think of the green line as space, the purple line as time, and the middle as the area where spatial distortion lies.
Since time and space meet it’s easy to suggest Solaris is omnipresent with the intersection instead of outside of it, like how others previously claimed.

My bad guys :/ I think we should strictly stick with the Japanese dub instead of the guide as there are too many contradictions.
 
Zamasu_Chan said:
I discussed this off site, but I’m starting to see my mistake. The Japanese dub calls that body of space they’re in an intersection of time and space while the dub and guide call it a rift.
This is an intersection right. Now think of the green line as space, the purple line as time, and the middle as the area where spatial distortion lies.
Since time and space meet it’s easy to suggest Solaris is omnipresent with the intersection instead of outside of it, like how others previously claimed.

My bad guys :/ I think we should strictly stick with the Japanese dub instead of the guide as there are too many contradictions.
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Don't worry about that Zamasu, we are reaching the reliable part of the thing.
 
This CRT isn't really finished, but can Solaris' profile be updated to reflect what everybody agreed upon within even the previous thread? That part at the very least is something we can apply.

We would have to create a good justification with relevant youtube links and such.
 
ShakeResounding said:
This CRT isn't really finished, but can Solaris' profile be updated to reflect what everybody agreed upon within even the previous thread? That part at the very least is something we can apply.

We would have to create a good justification with relevant youtube links and such.
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Hmmmmm nah
 
Right, now onto serious answers from less provocative people. I'll draft something up later and post it here to gather some thoughts on it.
 
ShakeResounding said:
This CRT isn't really finished, but can Solaris' profile be updated to reflect what everybody agreed upon within even the previous thread? That part at the very least is something we can apply.
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I have a Scan about Eggman mentioning Solaris's transcendental nature, It maybe can help in the justifications.
 
ShakeResounding said:
Sure, feel free to post it. JP dub?
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unknown.png

This scan should be used on the profile for the transcendent nature justification, along with type 3 acausality.
 
Feel free to leave suggestions or things to add.

"Temporal Omnipresence (Solaris is a transcendent life form that is stated to exist across the past, present, and future at the same time, as Sonic, Shadow and Silver needed to strike it throughout all points in time to even subdue it. Eggman stated that attacking it in only one period of time would have ultimately meant nothing to it)"

Being Omnipresent throughout just time is only Nigh-Omnipresence, right? Just making sure, because Solaris is even listed as one of the examples on the page. On another note, I'm using Windii's captions on the video of her channel because translating is literally her thing.
 
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ShakeResounding said:
"Nigh-Omnipresent (Solaris is a transcendent life form that is stated to exist across the past, present, and future at the same time, as Sonic, Shadow and Silver needed to strike it throughout all points in time to even subdue it. Eggman stated that attacking it in only one period of time would have ultimately meant nothing to it)
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I kinda think the Immeasurable speed thing should be regarded on a profile note, since the Immeasurable speed part was also taken from Solaris's state of existence.

Plus also the Attack speed Solaris does scale, including the AoE Blast regarded.
 
The AoE thing is being discussed here so I avoided mentioning it there for the time being. We're mainly just waiting for counters on it affecting Silver's future, which there seems to be none for.
 
ShakeResounding said:
Being Omnipresent throughout just time is only Nigh-Omnipresence, right?
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It should just be temporal omnipresence not nigh omnipresence because being one with 1 temporal axis isn't even close as being nearly fused with all of Sonic 2-C multiverses since Solaris barely occupies anything spatial wise and isn't nigh close to being omnipresent in his verse.While nigh omnipresent are close to being omnipresent in their verse.
 
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My_area said:
It should just be temporal omnipresence not nigh omnipresence because being one with 1 temporal axis isn't even close as being nearly fused with all of Sonic 2-C multiverses since Solaris barely occupies anything spatial wise and isn't nigh close to being omnipresent in his verse.While nigh omnipresent are close to being omnipresent in their verse.
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I was quite going to share the same idea.
 
sanicspood said:
so is immeasurable speed staying or?
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There's yet to have been a refute to Solaris' attack effecting Silver's future, which would qualify for Immeasurable speed. I also have some doubts about DDM's refutes, but we simply need more staff to give their input since Planck kinda just agreed with Zamasu's old and debunked points and any staff aside from him and DDM haven't looked at my summary comment afaik.
 
ShakeResounding said:
There's yet to have been a refute to Solaris' attack effecting Silver's future, which would qualify for Immeasurable speed. I also have some doubts about DDM's refutes, but we simply need more staff to give their input since Planck kinda just agreed with Zamasu's old and debunked points and any staff aside from him and DDM haven't looked at my summary comment afaik.
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Solaris reacting to space-time itself being destroyed and still being capable of moving was something already adressed or not? Because that's still used as one of the justifications.
 
ShakeResounding said:
In the profile? The profile hasn't been updated yet, but Solaris destroying Space-Time probably doesn't need to be mentioned in its justification
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Anyway, I was thinking about that due to Zamasu's first argument on the previous thread, it was something like this if I can renember right:
From the speed page: A being that is not only omnipresent throughout space, but also time, would also be able to react to every attack from a being with normal speed before the opponent would even begin to throw the attack. This is the case because such a being would exist throughout all of time, experiencing past, presence and future at once while not being bound to the normal flow of time.
If you exist throughout the past, present and future at the same time, then you can see things happening throughout all of time at one time. That’s immeasurable reaction speed.
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I don't understanded what was DDM's counter in relation to this anyway, since I don't have participated on the other thread regarding the first issue on the Immeasurable speed Sonic god tiers debate.

And what's being argued right now according to the new standard restrictions is that Immeasurable speed through time travel is restricted to what the comprehensions seems to lead supposed through the fact that LS characters can perform time travel depending on how the verse treats such thing, and it was already adressed that Sonic verse doesn't follow this kind of logic.
 
This is the case because such a being would exist throughout all of time, experiencing past, presence and future at once while not being bound to the normal flow of time
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The bolded part is the most important part.
Pretty much makes finite speed an impossibility for Solaris.
 
GilverTheProtoAngelo said:
The bolded part is the most important part.
Pretty much makes finite speed an impossibility for Solaris.
Click to expand...
And it's also established through such standard that this kind of being would experience past, present and future all at once, and given how Solaris's transcendent nature is regarded by Eggman and how much the context about the super-dimensional statements are applied, it would make an impossibility for Solaris having finite speed in such case.
 
Gabs22_Gamer said:
And it's also established through such standard that this kind of being would experience past, present and future all at once, and given how Solaris's transcendent nature is regarded by Eggman and how much the context about the super-dimensional statements are applied, it would make an impossibility for Solaris having finite speed in such case.
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Amazing thing is, that all of this is purely because of him physically existing in all of those time points, just like I am now physically standing in my room typing on my phone and can percieve all objcets in the room.
I don't need cosmic awareness for that lmao 😂, neither does Solaris.
 
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