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Sonic General Discussion Zone Act 1: New Frontiers

Issen_Mk_III said:
That G1 blog did everything in it's power to dodge the shit out of immeasurable speed arguments.
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They did mention immeasurable, the counter arguments were just... bad.
This would mean Solaris isn't attacking at merely just one point in time. They’re attacking throughout all of them, correct? Maybe, but more likely than not. Sonic ‘06 is a bad game, and with that, comes awful designing and programming. What may seem like the attacks being launched through points in time and Solaris looking back at you is more like a game feature, and Solaris’ character may just be locking back to where the player is. Additionally, it would not make sense lore-wise, as they specifically needed to defeat Solaris at each point in time.
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Idk why everyone says the whole “each was at one point in time” arg is a plot point, it’s not.
The only thing hinting at it in game is each character saying a different era.
 
There is an argument for it; we see Solaris' attacks even when you switch to a character that's within a different time period. You can see Solaris' attacks still flying out to where Silver is. Another example is when Shadow switches with Silver, you can see Solaris still in the position it was in when fighting Shadow. This would mean Solaris isn't attacking at merely just one point in time. They’re attacking throughout all of them, correct? Maybe, but more likely than not. Sonic ‘06 is a bad game, and with that, comes awful designing and programming. What may seem like the attacks being launched through points in time and Solaris looking back at you is more like a game feature, and Solaris’ character may just be locking back to where the player is. Additionally, it would not make sense lore-wise, as they specifically needed to defeat Solaris at each point in time
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^ Ngl, these are hella distasteful counter-arguments. Them boiling it down Solaris sending the same attacks throughout all points in time as some game mechanic for Solaris to “look for the player” sounds way too assumptuous.

Also, the fact that the hedgehogs needing to defeat Solaris in each point of time would make it make sense, if anything, since they’d be having to travel throughout several points in time throughout the fight.

Also, it sounds hella hypocritical how they consider blitzing someone that can merely see the future an immeasurable speed feat yet don’t wanna consider blitzing someone who literally not only sees but exists throughout every point in time as such.
 
FaceOff81 said:
I agree with this logic. Ultra Sonic powered from the Super Emerald is more powerful than the ones powered by the Power Rings. Adding onto how through that same power source (not through a biological transformation like SSJ Blue) we see Sonic go from Super to Ultra Sonic, it's reasonably to see that Ultra Sonic should be greater than Super Sonic.

Regarding why Sonic transformed into Super Sonic instead of Ultra Sonic in obtaining the Super Emeralds, at the time they tried to mirror the release of Sonic Adventure 1 within Super Sonic and the Chaos boss fight since Sonic Adventure 1 came out at the time.

In lore however, given how Sonic transformed into Super first and Ultra second with a singular Super Emerald, it's not illogical to say that with all Seven, the same thing would happen making Ultra Sonic > Super Sonic.
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I don't agree personally as the Super Emeralds in Archie have a vague level of power. They aren't really even stated to be as strong as all seven Chaos Emeralds individually. It just doesn't have enough feats to even justify being stronger than Super Sonic in any regard. It's hardly used, whenever Sonic needed a strong form he never used Ultra, and the powers Ultra Sonic shows are kind of really dogwater. It never shows the bare minimum that Super Sonic is capable of, so I just hard-disagree.

Sure they wanted to mirror Sonic Adventure 1, but lore-wise it doesn't make much sense if he could just immediately use the upgrade off the rip. Also, again, it's hardly used again. Honestly just feels like a diet Super Sonic.

If we use the logic of him transforming into Super first and then Ultra, then by that logic SSB Goku would be stronger than MUI because we see him briefly go MUI before going Blue against Broly. But we know that's not the case. We should know it's not the case here either considering Ultra Sonic hardly has any feats to support any real superiority that people think it has over Super Sonic. Especially since it only was used three times and only ONE of those times could be argued to be implied stronger than Super Sonic, yet doesn't show anything that Super Sonic can't just do way better.
 
FaceOff81 said:
Hard disagree in some aspects. There are genuine credible details regarding Cosmology and how the Verse works that came form his statements where it has something of merit. Other comments like the Kid Goku response (amongst other things) should flat out be ignored.
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I never said he wasn't credible at all, I just said that he isn't the most credible. Especially with other statements like The End being inferior to Solaris, despite proof to the contrary. As well as him saying Sonic is only planet level. Ian Flynn is just NOT a powerscaler, so a lot of his scaling-based statements should just be ignored outright. However, I'm not saying he has no merit whatsoever. I just say to take what he says with a grain of salt. If we did take him at his word, Archie and Games Sonic would be equal on this wiki because he said so.
 
FaceOff81 said:
Dear God you are very aggressive about the Archie Continuity. What happened? I mean, as an Archie fan, I disagree with some of your perspectives regarding the verse (like ignoring his Plot Manipulation and how Game Sonic negates the Archie Sonic's 1 Billionth Ring), but based off of previous replies, you seem very fed up with the verse and people arguing for the verse. As such, I'd like to hear why you believe and say these things about Archie fans.
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It's fine to have a simple disagreement. It's just a lot of Archie "fans" tend to not really read the comic at all. I am not saying this in regards to all Archie fans, mind you. I'm not trying to be aggressive, I'm just not convinced of all the stuff a lot of Archie fans keep yapping about. Especially the plot manipulation that they keep bringing up. That's hardly ever a device he genuinely uses in his stories and really shouldn't be combat applicable if at all. Seems like more of a gag or a one-off. If he really had this power, he would have used it when it mattered. Narratively, it makes no sense. It's like calling Archie Sonic outerversal because he brought people from real life into the comic or that he sometimes escapes the "comic world". That's the type of argumentation I keep hearing. Or arguing Archie Sonic's microverse ad-infinitum thing that realistically doesn't shouldn't scale the way people think it does. Like people saying "oh since every atom is a universe, that means Archie Sonic in base is a billion times multiversal nth power of times cuz he can destroy sand particles or something". Just a lot of mention of absurd feats or nonsensical scaling in Archie Sonic that does are never used again, should really be treated as one-offs, and/or just plane don't make sense at all. Just narratively doesn't make sense if he has these abilities, but doesn't use them, like, ever.

The problem with enjoyers of the Archie comic is that they blow every single thing that Sonic has completely out of proportion, even when it narratively doesn't add up. Either way, that's generally how I feel. Just people who try to argue the comic just not understanding context of certain things that happen in the comic at all.
 
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Theuser789 said:
It's literally headcanon that spread around like a virus.
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Eggman and Silver actually state this quite literally as Eggman said that it would be impossible to destroy Solaris because he exists in the past, present, and future. Then Silver backs this up by saying that the three of them will take on each one at once.
 
The issue is that the other way you can look at this is by focusing on the second statement more, and just saying that the idea is that since Metal copied Chaos Control, he can counter it. This is consistent with Shadow being able to use Chaos Control to counter Black Doom’s Chaos Control in the final bossfight of Shadow Generations.
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Shadow's Chaos Control was nulled by Black Doom in the fight, so how did Shadow pull up Chaos Control? Unless they're saying Shadow resists power null.
 
Bowser's side forgot the Otherworldification was planetary... AGAIN! The Eggfield was simply to remove the resistances gathered by the Chaos Emeralds. People keep making this mistake.
 
Theuser789 said:
Shadow's Chaos Control was nulled by Black Doom in the fight, so how did Shadow pull up Chaos Control? Unless they're saying Shadow resists power null.
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The prompt to break out of BD’s CC actually is the same button you use to activate CC, so I think what happened is his ability to use it again just reawakened in that moment, overcoming his power null. With Overlord he actually glows green upon using CC, and green is the color of CC in this game, which supports the idea he’s using it himself to counter Shadow.
 
Theuser789 said:
Bowser's side forgot the Otherworldification was planetary... AGAIN! The Eggfield was simply to remove the resistances gathered by the Chaos Emeralds. People keep making this mistake.
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Speaking of the Death Battle, are people thinking that certain parts makes sense based on the scaling they gave or is this based on actual beliefs? Was just wondering. Not big on the whole Death Battle behind-the-scenes scaling, really. I hardly even watch the show.
 
ZothythoTheNephalem said:
Speaking of the Death Battle, are people thinking that certain parts makes sense based on the scaling they gave or is this based on actual beliefs? Was just wondering. Not big on the whole Death Battle behind-the-scenes scaling, really. I hardly even watch the show.
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They basically tossed out dream stuff, dimensional tiering, and most of many worlds theory altogether, so what’s left is pretty accurate on the Sonic side. For Mario they could maybe have factored in some other universes like the ones outside Paper Mario, but they chose not to.
 
JJSliderman said:
They basically tossed out dream stuff, dimensional tiering, and most of many worlds theory altogether, so what’s left is pretty accurate on the Sonic side. For Mario they could maybe have factored in some other universes like the ones outside Paper Mario, but they chose not to.
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So it's more of an agreeance based off of Death Battle's own logic and no outside scaling.
 
JJSliderman said:
The prompt to break out of BD’s CC actually is the same button you use to activate CC, so I think what happened is his ability to use it again just reawakened in that moment, overcoming his power null. With Overlord he actually glows green upon using CC, and green is the color of CC in this game, which supports the idea he’s using it himself to counter Shadow.
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That's a fair interpretation even if I disagree with it.
 
RedReaper616 said:
I'm surprised they discounted Chronicles, solely because Death Battle has a habit of allowing that kind of material. (Most obvious of cases being Star Wars and it's now totally non-canon Legends material, but even recently in the form of SSJ for Bardock V Omni-Man and JJBA: EoH for Joker V Giorno.) I point this out because I think it's fair to say Chronicles gives Eggman a good leg up via Chao Attacks, items like Immunity Idol, more mind manip layer arguments, etc. I don't know if it would be game changing, but I do think it's worth noting.
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To be fair, they also didn't use the Mario Rabbids cross-over, but I think they should have, since I'm positive Death Battle will. It looks like they're using the movies ffs
 
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