Sonic General Discussion Zone Act 1: New Frontiers

[Issen_Mk_III]

Kyle in many ways is vaguer with what he says, he is just a co-host for the channel and was no say on the series, and more times than not, he directly mentions some disagreements with some stuff that Ian says like Sonic Runners not being canon "because you can't play it anymore". The problem with Ian saying that stuff is because he's a writer for the series and is part of their lore initiative to make Sonic a single universe, what he says has some real weight while Kyle is there more to make fun.

True,true.

 

[Issen_Mk_III]

Look,I get the whole Perfect Chaos thing,they don't even scale him to base on here. But saying there's no growth at all is just straight up denial.

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

@Executor_N0 it is kinda frustrating though since Ian's statements are contradicted by the games themselves. Like how can Sonic and co not grow in stats when we're shown and stated the exact opposite? Even in Forces as I said, they reiterate this concept which has been a thing for over a decade at this point as far as I know.
So should we take Ian's word as being unreliable in general or if it's contradicted by the source material and or prior games?

 

[Executor_N0]

@Executor_N0 it is kinda frustrating though since Ian's statements are contradicted by the games themselves. Like how can Sonic and co not grow in stats when we're shown and stated the exact opposite? Even in Forces as I said, they reiterate this concept which has been a thing for over a decade at this point as far as I know.
So should we take Ian's word as being unreliable in general or if it's contradicted by the source material and or prior games?

The way I see it, sometimes it seems he doesn't even think of the games as being valid, or at best "if it isn't in more than one game, it's not valid". He said before in regards to powers, that the Spin Dash is canon because it appeared in more than one game, but any other move that doesn't "isn't necessarily canon and might just be a gameplay element". There's a bit of vagueness there, but the general idea seems that if it isn't continuously on games when it should be, he considers that to be an outlier that only happened for gameplay reasons and shouldn't be taken as canon. I mean, maybe he doesn't even think that Light Speed Dash is canon even though it appears even in Frtontiers because "it was never used outside of a game or in cutescenes".

 

[Executor_N0]

Are we finally going to see her on the DLC?

 

[Undylan]

I remember at some point, someone say we shouldn't always rely on Ian's word? Altough that depends of the actual context.

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

One thing that I still hope for is a NG+ update since some of the moves, i.e the ones you get from freeing your friends, are locked behind freeing them so you can't get access till you reach them.
Things like stats and learning the other moves are pretty easy to cheese thanks to Big's fishing minigame, which really helps save time on new playthroughs

 

[ShakeResounding]

Not gonna beat a dead horse, it's just funny how at-odds Ian's statements often are compared to what we see. This "Sonic growing stronger is headcanon" thing in particular, because it's probably one of the most consistent things about him from game-to-game. Battle was literally all about them kicking the shit out of each other and growing stronger from it, with several statements in that game alone which support it.

Flynn, Flynn, Flynn...

 

[ShakeResounding]

One thing that I still hope for is a NG+ update since some of the moves, i.e the ones you get from freeing your friends, are locked behind freeing them so you can't get access till you reach them.
Things like stats and learning the other moves are pretty easy to cheese thanks to Big's fishing minigame, which really helps save time on new playthroughs

Maybe that challenge mode stuff is in reference to that, a NG+ mode would be kickass

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

Hmm it's possible, though with most of these types of games they're usually related to either combat trials to see how many enemies you can beat or how many combos you can score in a certain period of time alongside a boss rush mode which would kick ass since the Titan bosses are some of the best parts of Frontiers.
Still the option would be nice if they compensate by giving enemies higher health bars so you don't instantly one shot them because unless you purposefully keep your power and defense at a low level, leveling up both can really make combat sequences a cake walk

 

[Executor_N0]

Not gonna beat a dead horse, it's just funny how at-odds Ian's statements often are compared to what we see. This "Sonic growing stronger is headcanon" thing in particular, because it's probably one of the most consistent things about him from game-to-game. Battle was literally all about them kicking the shit out of each other and growing stronger from it, with several statements in that game alone which support it.

Flynn, Flynn, Flynn...

At worst he could say that the overall events of Sonic Battle are canon, but not everything. That is literally what they are doing with the original Sonic games with "the games being canon, but their stories are now retconned and everything from the manuals now isn't valid". If they really wanted to push for that, there's historical evidence that they could do that.

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

I mean personally it wouldn't make sense to say the events of the game are but what actually happens in Sonic Battle isn't, especially if what happens in the game itself is reiterated in future titles and alongside the fact that Battle is 19 years old at this point.
It's so weird because I like Ian Flynn and how he writes Sonic and most of his friends is pretty solid, but how the man treats canon and continuity in Sonic can be quite irritating to someone who's been a fan of the hedgehog for years

 

[Executor_N0]

I mean personally it wouldn't make sense to say the events of the game are but what actually happens in Sonic Battle isn't, especially if what happens in the game itself is reiterated in future titles and alongside the fact that Battle is 19 years old at this point.
It's so weird because I like Ian Flynn and how he writes Sonic and most of his friends is pretty solid, but how the man treats canon and continuity in Sonic can be quite irritating to someone who's been a fan of the hedgehog for years

Makes no sense, but they are doing that right now with a lot of old games (Mostly ones form the Classic era). If this is happening so much with Classic games, I wouldn't be surprised if it also happens with the Modern era as well.

 

[Alexander]

hey, does anyone know about Ficcion Sin Limites Wiki?

 

[Alexander]

also,what about this feat?

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

Makes no sense, but they are doing that right now with a lot of old games (Mostly ones form the Classic era). If this is happening so much with Classic games, I wouldn't be surprised if it also happens with the Modern era as well.

If they do indeed do that with the modern era, then I would love to see how they accomplish that task without creating any massive contradictions since a lot of the modern titles are woven deeply into the story and lore.
An example would probably be decanonizing 06, since Generations considers it part of the timeline and Sonic making clear references to events from 06 in Team Sonic Racing

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

also,what about this feat?

Doesn't seem useable since Eggman was using a slow mo machine to slow everything down in his vicinity which includes the laser, we actually see him activate it near the start of the video

 

[Executor_N0]

If they do indeed do that with the modern era, then I would love to see how they accomplish that task without creating any massive contradictions since a lot of the modern titles are woven deeply into the story and lore.
An example would probably be decanonizing 06, since Generations considers it part of the timeline and Sonic making clear references to events from 06 in Team Sonic Racing

It's not in the sense of the games not being canon anymore, but elements of the story not being.

For example, the Classic games still are canon in the sense of "Sonic went to Little Planet and defeated Eggman" for example, but the details found on the manuals aren't canon anymore and the Origins cutscenes take their place.

So with modern games it would be similar, they could say "Sonic Battle happened in the sense that there were fights and Sonic defeated X characters, but the story elements didn't and now Y story is the canon understanding".

That is, they are changing the lore of the series in order to make it easier to understand in broader terms, and so some elements that are seen as "difficult" or "too obscure and underused" are more likely to be removed from canon.

 

[Alexander]

Doesn't seem useable since Eggman was using a slow mo machine to slow everything down in his vicinity which includes the laser, we actually see him activate it near the start of the video

Actually, from Sonic's perspective, everything was slow, but as Eggman said, slow for Sonic, it's normal speed for everyone else.
so technically the laser beam is slow, but that's from sonic's perspective, so sonic would be faster than the laser in fast speed (which is normal speed for the rest)

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

@Executor_N0 that is fair, actually. I can understand wanting to make the lore a bit easier to understand with a franchise 30+ years old like Sonic but I just hope the changes are good and not unnecessary as a whole.
Though I didn't know that Origins was considered the new standard for Classic Sonic's stories, you did mention that they changed the stories a bit due to cutscenes but I wasn't aware that would be the new standard

 

[Executor_N0]

And Sonic Team continues to look for new staff. Now they are recruiting Graphics Programmers in order to create visuals like the Cyberspace levels.

 

[Theuser789]

Ian isn't WoG. He is a freelance writer that works in the series, but that's it. Everything he does needs to be approved by Sega first. So only the stuff stated by Iizuka and Co plus what's in the games and official material is valid

 

[BlastX]

Actually, from Sonic's perspective, everything was slow, but as Eggman said, slow for Sonic, it's normal speed for everyone else.
so technically the laser beam is slow, but that's from sonic's perspective, so sonic would be faster than the laser in fast speed (which is normal speed for the rest)

If it isn't an outlier it should be on the MFTL+ range.

 

[TioKill]

Flynn only has a mild authority on his own writing, and even then, the IDW are just the same canon as the games, so everything falls apart - he even makes Eggman state Sonic is Mach 1 in Frontiers.
He will be a headache for MFTL+ Sonic

 

[Executor_N0]

Some people seems to think that "this is just what Ian thinks and his opinions, they aren't absolute in the series", although this is right, it's also more nuanced.

It's true that other official material not written by Ian features Sonic with a much higher level, but that still is much more limited in consistency.

The truth is that although it's canonical moments when Sonic is strong in works not written by Ian, the moments that feature Sonic at the level that Ian says they are are also canonical.

The more stories are written by Ian, the more "Ian's vision" becomes the most consistent one even if other depictions of the character are still canon.

Places like here, VsB Wiki, that focuses in "most consistent showings" of the characters, so if one day someone wants to show that even hypersonic speed aren't consistent with the series due to the huge number of comics written by Ian, that person wouldn't be wrong because the number of stories or official material depicting Sonic at far lower speeds far outnumbered the ones that showcase Sonic at high speed levels. The same in regards to attack speed or even durability.

So, yes, Ian's vision of the series are just his, but they are still the most consistent view of the series because by nature as a monthly comic series with various side-stories are going to have more content than the game side that had years without even a spin-off title.

It does not matter that "there's a stronger vision of the character" if no stories featuring that exist. Ian and the other IDW staff still are the ones pushing for stories to be made, so the stories are going to reflect their view of the series.

All that SEGA does is check the content and see if there are any lore and character contradictions, they do not push for storylines (At best they request some stuff like Warp Topaz not being explicitly destroyed), this is what the writers do. If no one pushes for high-level Sonic, then lower-level one is going to be the most consistent and well-known one.

And to be sure, no one here is going to get multiple keys for "Ian' vision" and "Kishimoto's vision" to take care of how different writers portray Sonic, even DC here is having a hard time trying to make consistent keys over different writers views.

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

Tl;Dr Ian Flynn stays trolling power scalers and people continue to take the bait Big the Cat has quite the fishing rival it seems.

The anti-WoG continues to be delicious!

 

[Ovrhide]

Ian isn't WoG. He is a freelance writer that works in the series, but that's it. Everything he does needs to be approved by Sega first. So only the stuff stated by Iizuka and Co plus what's in the games and official material is valid

Was going to write that, but I don’t need to as you pretty much summed it up.

He isn’t the end all, he is just one of.

base Goku > Super sonic lmao.

 

[Ovrhide]

Also, Sage best Daughter.

 

[Ovrhide]

Flynn only has a mild authority on his own writing, and even then, the IDW are just the same canon as the games, so everything falls apart - he even makes Eggman state Sonic is Mach 1 in Frontiers.
He will be a headache for MFTL+ Sonic

Sonic is Mach 1. That is true even if he could reach faster than light speed, which he can. He consistently stays that fast. Seems to me like a comfortable speed for him, or his jogging speed.

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

Tbh, even if he says things that I disagree with at least Ian has a lot more passion for Sonic the Hedgehog and he does put in the effort to make these stories as good as they can be. My only wish would be for him to depict Shadow as being less of a dick and more like his 06 counterpart, maybe a future Sonic game could serve as Shadow's redemption arc

 

[TioKill]

Sonic is Mach 1. That is true even if he could reach faster than light speed, which he can. He consistently stays that fast. Seems to me like a comfortable speed for him, or his jogging speed.

Ovrsemantics. He portrays Mach 1 as a relevant speed for Sonic.

 

[Alexander]

If it isn't an outlier it should be on the MFTL+ range.

It's not like in another chapter he directly went to the original plane of existence by himself(actually he did that)

 

[Angelzewolf]

I just finished listening to the Egg Memo which, proves Sage is a great addition, but more importantly.

Frontiers kind of make me worry for Sonic's power. Ian, of course, views the characters at a very low level even for insane stuff like Archie. But Eclipse Cannon & the fact Eggman (for some reason) considers Sonic moving at Mach 1 impressive?

I'm getting a bit worried Ian might slowly begin to weaken/nerf the blue boy with each game. Which would suck. Hopefully Sega understands these crazy showing of power are always awesome to see and continues making Sonic battle against Cosmic level gods.

 

[Theuser789]

Frontiers is the first game writen by Ian and this is the most powerful Sonic has been. Sonic was stated to be supersonic everytime in japonese material and it didn't change anything. There being random weapons as strong as the Eclipse Cannon helps our scaling. Some peeps here are overworrying, Ian doesn't focus on powerscaling when writing

 

[Gabs22_Gamer]

Ian doesn't focus on powerscaling when writing

people should already acknowledge that by this point

 

[Executor_N0]

By making some changes to the code (Increasing the range of view) it's possible to decrease the pop-in without big problems. From the looks of it, Sonic Frontiers was optimized for the Switch, and all the changes made to it were just applied to all the other versions of the game, even for consoles that don't need that low range of view.

That is, if they did a proper adaptation, there would be no need for so much pop-in in the consoles other than Switch.

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

That. Is. AWESOME!
Seriously, the lack of pop in (regardless if it's perfect or not) really fixes one of my biggest pet peeves with the game and something that should've only been exclusive to Switch, not on next gen and especially PC

 

[Gabs22_Gamer]

Shadow made a thingy

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

So Tangle and EGGNET is Canon according to Frotiers, I know it took me a long time to post here but does that mean something for the IDW profiles?

Also Sage is Rei from Evangelion

 

[TioKill]

So Tangle and EGGNET is Canon according to Frotiers, I know it took me a long time to post here but does that mean something for the IDW profiles?

Also Sage is Rei from Evangelion

You're kinda late, we're planning on merging IDW and the Games.