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Sonic General Discussion Zone Act 1: New Frontiers

Man I sure hope nothing is happening with any of the creators of Sonic the Hedgehog, specifically Yuji Naka, could you imagine if he got arrested or something that'd be kinda wild.
 
@Dust_Collector yeah I just saw, he and two Square Enix employees were given the arrest due to insider trading after buying stock from a company called Aiming Co before it was officially announced a Dragon Quest spin off would be developed by them.
It's pretty sad, but after reading about Sonic 2's development from former Sega Technical Institute employees and other sources it seems Yuji Naka isn't exactly the best person ever
 
Me waiting for the next Sonic CRT after Frontiers knowing it's gonna be heat:
homer-the-simpsons.gif
 
Dust_Collector said:
Man I sure hope nothing is happening with any of the creators of Sonic the Hedgehog, specifically Yuji Naka, could you imagine if he got arrested or something that'd be kinda wild.
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People are laughing at it. I am to assume the creator of sonic isn’t really as respected as I thought.

Oh well. We get a good 3d sonic game, the universe starts falling apart.
 
Dust_Collector said:
Man I sure hope nothing is happening with any of the creators of Sonic the Hedgehog, specifically Yuji Naka, could you imagine if he got arrested or something that'd be kinda wild.
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I'm sorry if I'm digging up ancient history but wasn't one of the main reasons Sonic Extreme was scrapped (for the Saturn) was because Yuji Naka refused to share his engine (that he had made for NiGHTs) with the rest of Sonic Team? Ofc the Saturn was going to be the beginning of the end of Sega's console career regardless.

Suddenly the failure of Balan Wonderworld isn't so surprising plus most Sonictubers have already distanced themselves from Yuji Naka months before that "arrest", yet another example of separating the creation from the creator (in terms of Sonic).
 
Dust_Collector said:
There's also the time a different team made a new engine for their own game and Naka just stole it and prevented the original team that made it from using it
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It's reasons like that which make me glad that Balan Wonderland failed for Yuji Naka.
I obviously feel bad for anyone else part of the game, I'm sure they tried as much as they could, but it feels satisfying to see it blow up in Yuji's face when they were making it seem like the game would be amazing
 
The_Unknown_Warrior1 said:
@The_Axiom_of_Virgo it's actually worse.
From what I've personally read, Yuji Naka threw a fit when SEGA planned to use the NiGHTS engine to develop Xtreme on and he even threatened to leave the company if they tried to use the engine for Xtreme so yeah he actually kind of sucks for that
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Dust_Collector said:
There's also the time a different team made a new engine for their own game and Naka just stole it and prevented the original team that made it from using it
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Bruh... so from what I've gathered from this, is the fact Sega has always hired hacks to handle the Sonic franchise? It truly is a miracle that this year is going so well for the blue blur.

Obviously I'm not going to fully villainize somebody of over a hedgehog (we'll likely never know 100% what actually happens behind those corporate closed doors) but it's truly worth a case study on the "Sonic hall of infamy" (Yuji Naka, Ken Penders, Pontac and Graff, etc) and Sega's perception of those individuals vs reality.
 
The_Axiom_of_Virgo said:
I'm sorry if I'm digging up ancient history but wasn't one of the main reasons Sonic Extreme was scrapped (for the Saturn) was because Yuji Naka refused to share his engine (that he had made for NiGHTs) with the rest of Sonic Team? Ofc the Saturn was going to be the beginning of the end of Sega's console career regardless.

Suddenly the failure of Balan Wonderworld isn't so surprising plus most Sonictubers have already distanced themselves from Yuji Naka months before that "arrest", yet another example of separating the creation from the creator (in terms of Sonic).
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It's very complicated because there are many holes in those stories that show a whole different picture.

First the Sonic Extreme thing. Yuji Naka made the programming for Nights, as well as all other games he made, using Assembly. Each game had a totally new engine that wasn't reused for future games, Yuji Naka was basically the only one making it and he made no documents explaining how the engine worked, one of the reasons for why it took so long for Nights to get a remaster was exactly because the new staff lacked the source code of the original game so they had to remake some sections they didn't know how to work. And of course, this isn't something rare, there are a lot of stories about how programming at that time was a hard task due to the reuse of engines being something never done and there was very little documentation about it (There was even a part on Pokémon's production where Masuda had to learn to program and figure out how to make sense of the original code because the original programs left and there was no data to use as a basis).

The American brand used the C+ programming language while Naka used Assembly, the programmer at the American brand would not only have a way of getting the source code of the engine (Something Naka never saves and no documentation was made), but also be able to convert it to the programming language that the rest of the team could use. Since it's basically impossible to Naka to share the engine, he would have to somehow be able to reverse engineer the game and completely convert it from scratch in record time considering that an entire staff with much more developing time was totally unable to recreate Naka's original coding.

And of course, this isn't even considering other staff members at Extreme that called that a "rumor" or even "Naka wouldn't be in the wrong for being angry due to his engine being used without his permission".

For other stories, they all have some of the same plot holes implying things that would either be very hard to have happened or just never made any sense, mostly to push a narrative of Yuji Naka being the "destroyer of very promising projects that could have saved SEGA"

I mean, technically could it have been that a very limited number of staff members at the projects kept in secret all the wonders they did only to reveal years later while other staff members never heard of anything like that while clamming things that need a lot of leap in logic? Of course, anything is possible. But I think people focus too much on those rumors with a lot of holes when that shouldn't be necessary. There's a lot of evidence from Naka's own mouth about bad things that happened at the time, but those fantastical rumors that exagerates the truth are by far way more popular, even tough counter evidence exists.
 
Minor thing but I chuckled.

I've seen people get mad at Frontiers because of its Autosave. Basically they never save in the game, start a new game and then get mad when the game overrides their previous autosave with the new game. Is...this not normal for video games?
 
Angelzewolf said:
Minor thing but I chuckled.

I've seen people get mad at Frontiers because of its Autosave. Basically they never save in the game, start a new game and then get mad when the game overrides their previous autosave with the new game. Is...this not normal for video games?
Click to expand...
Lmfao it is quite normal maybe they should just... save 💀
 
Angelzewolf said:
Alright, thank God. I thought I was actually losing my mind. ☠️
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Trust me you're not lol that's like someone playing the entirety of fallout 4 on autosaves only and getting upset they restarted and lost their progress
 
LaserPrecision said:
Very impressive. I'm waiting for the crazy mod where they actually add full on abilities so we can have a Shadow model and various chaos control abilities. That sounds really fun.
Click to expand...
Yeah it's pretty damn cool and same I can't wait to see that kinda thing happen
 
Outside Denuvo, I think Frontiers on PC is going to be the best way to play the game due to all the mods and stuff. I myself am playing the game using a physics improvement mod and the difference between that and the base game's physics are night and day.
Has anyone here ever play Generations on PC? I hope Frontiers get a similar level of dedication to really make the game better
 
As someone who has never had to work on any profiles before, sounds good to me
In all seriousness, though, I assume it just will happen, in a sense.
 
BlastX said:
None of those abilities are stuff that Sonic can't do normally or exclusive to Cyberspace shit that I'm aware off.

Anyways, aside from what this game did to Eggman I think it's fine...it's just what they did for him is so ******* bad
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Bad how?

Unrelatedly, I'm curious: What's the stance on The End? & how do we consider it in relation to Solaris, since, IIRC, characters don't really remember the events of Sonic 2006?
 
Imaginym said:
Bad how?

Unrelatedly, I'm curious: What's the stance on The End? & how do we consider it in relation to Solaris, since, IIRC, characters don't really remember the events of Sonic 2006?
Click to expand...
He had the headcanon that Eggman only cared about himself prior to this game iirc so he didn’t like what Frontiers did with him

As for The End scaling I’m pretty sure we’re scaling it above every prior boss, including Solaris
 
Maverick_Zero_X said:
He had the headcanon that Eggman only cared about himself prior to this game iirc so he didn’t like what Frontiers did with him

As for The End scaling I’m pretty sure we’re scaling it above every prior boss, including Solaris
Click to expand...
How are we certain The End isn't just being conceited & misjudging the others seen through Sonic's memories? Also, wasn't it compared to Dark Gaia, who's weaker than several of Sonic's foes? & The End failed to break out of a dimensional prison, no? Shouldn't something with AP more than Solaris be able to just destroy Cyberspace to leave? Not to mention its boasts are of destroying civilizations, stars & planets. Admittedly, it can be argued having lower feats doesn't mean you can't have higher feats, but what its compared to, what it accomplishes & what it fails at make it seem like it falls far short of being superior to Sonic's other foes, & is more just overconfident. Sorry for any bother, all.
 
Imaginym said:
How are we certain The End isn't just being conceited & misjudging the others seen through Sonic's memories? Also, wasn't it compared to Dark Gaia, who's weaker than several of Sonic's foes? & The End failed to break out of a dimensional prison, no? Shouldn't something with AP more than Solaris be able to just destroy Cyberspace to leave? Not to mention its boasts are of destroying civilizations, stars & planets. Admittedly, it can be argued having lower feats doesn't mean you can't have higher feats, but what its compared to, what it accomplishes & what it fails at make it seem like it falls far short of being superior to Sonic's other foes, & is more just overconfident. Sorry for any bother, all.
Click to expand...
  • You’d have to prove The End is lying or exaggerating, which nothing in the game indicates is in-character for it to tell empty boasts afaik.
  • Tails’ comparison wouldn’t really override The End’s statement since the latter should be more knowledgeable on how strong it is, especially since Tails only made his comparison after witnessing a small demonstration of The End’s power.
  • Didja play the game? The End wasn’t trapped in Cyber Space through simple BFR, it had been “sealed” there by the Titans, which is why it tricked Sonic into destroying the Titans in order to break the seals and escape. Getting trapped in Cyber Space moreso indicates it lacks Resistance to Sealing than anything else.
  • The End destroying celestial bodies isn’t an Anti-Feat so I’m not sure what to say about that last point.
 
And to add on to Maverick's point, why would The End just end up lying after straight up seeing Sonic's memories and seeing the gods and machines he fought?
Bear in mind, The Ancients were a civilization with technology far beyond the likes of Eggman and his technology, and one who created the Titans specifically to combat The End (each individual Titan requires Sonic to go Super to even fight them at all, with the Knight being considered so powerful that even Tails had doubts that Super Sonic could win) and even then they had to seal it in Cyberspace because they couldn't defeat The End. So on top of that and having prior knowledge on Sonic's past foes from reading his memories, there's no reason to believe that The End would boast its power and lie
 
Maverick_Zero_X said:
  • You’d have to prove The End is lying or exaggerating, which nothing in the game indicates is in-character for it to tell empty boasts afaik.
  • Tails’ comparison wouldn’t really override The End’s statement since the latter should be more knowledgeable on how strong it is, especially since Tails only made his comparison after witnessing a small demonstration of The End’s power.
  • Didja play the game? The End wasn’t trapped in Cyber Space through simple BFR, it had been “sealed” there by the Titans, which is why it tricked Sonic into destroying the Titans in order to break the seals and escape. Getting trapped in Cyber Space moreso indicates it lacks Resistance to Sealing than anything else.
  • The End destroying celestial bodies isn’t an Anti-Feat so I’m not sure what to say about that last point.
Click to expand...
  • It is a manipulator. Throughout the whole game, it deceptively guides Sonic to freeing it. Decit through obfuscation is still deceit.
  • This is fair, The End should know its own power better than Tails, I suppose. I don't remember if Tails did much analysis on anything related to the matter. However, I'd argue that trying to bring victims to despair & hopelessness is a classic villain tactic, as is overconfidence. It gives a whole speech about trying to make Sonic give up, if it's that all in, I could believe that it's trying to break his spirit.
  • ~~I lack the means, but I watched a lot of content & cutscenes related to it.~~ I'm not sure I understand the difference between "trapped" & "sealed" in Cyberspace; I take it "sealed" is meant to mean it did not have its power in there, hence why it could not just use the AP its boasts would indicate to destroy the universe that is Cyberspace that it was put into?

Still, I suppose it is a good point for it case that it seemingly would have to have been a match for The Knight, if not all the Titans combined, & if even 1 Titan is a match for Super Sonic, I could believe it being superior to them.
Though, if The End>>>All The Titans Together~Super Sonic/The Knight (IDK the exact scaling chain, let alone how Super Sonic would fare against all the Titans at once.) then what's the scaling justification of Super Sonic beating The End? Just for having the help of the Titans?
 
Theuser789 said:
The End was sealed inside of Supreme who was sealed inside Cyberspace. Downplaying it to be subuniversal is absurd.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure I understand the relevance of being sealed inside Supreme inside Cyberspace, as opposed to just being sealed inside Cyberspace, if your case is that being Sealed has no relevance beyond if there's Resistance to Sealing.
In any case, I apologize if I have bothered you.
You may appreciate being informed that as of my post prior to yours I'm at the least accepting of The End being superior to all of the Titans (IDK if your post is meant to mean Supreme should be excluded from them in that regard.), & also feel it's probably comparable to all of the Titans working with Super Sonic, for taking numerous hits from them when they were, if The End is to be believed, using all of their might.
 
Imaginym said:
  • It is a manipulator. Throughout the whole game, it deceptively guides Sonic to freeing it. Decit through obfuscation is still deceit.
  • This is fair, The End should know its own power better than Tails, I suppose. I don't remember if Tails did much analysis on anything related to the matter. However, I'd argue that trying to bring victims to despair & hopelessness is a classic villain tactic, as is overconfidence. It gives a whole speech about trying to make Sonic give up, if it's that all in, I could believe that it's trying to break his spirit.
  • ~~I lack the means, but I watched a lot of content & cutscenes related to it.~~ I'm not sure I understand the difference between "trapped" & "sealed" in Cyberspace; I take it "sealed" is meant to mean it did not have its power in there, hence why it could not just use the AP its boasts would indicate to destroy the universe that is Cyberspace that it was put into?

Still, I suppose it is a good point for it case that it seemingly would have to have been a match for The Knight, if not all the Titans combined, & if even 1 Titan is a match for Super Sonic, I could believe it being superior to them.
Though, if The End>>>All The Titans Together~Super Sonic/The Knight (IDK the exact scaling chain, let alone how Super Sonic would fare against all the Titans at once.) then what's the scaling justification of Super Sonic beating The End? Just for having the help of the Titans?
Click to expand...
It only manipulated Sonic to escape Cyber Space. By the time of the final boss the ruse was finished, it had escaped. Barring your assumption that it was just talking out if its ass to convince Sonic to give up (which is just a headcanon to be frank) we have no reason to assume the statements it made during the boss was simply it being manipulative.

Once the seals (or “the locks” as The End refers to them as) were broken The End proceeded to “tear down the walls between dimensions” and escaped back into the universe. So yeah the seals presumably stopped The End from using its powers, as it was able to tear through space and time and escape Cyber Space when nothing was barring it from doing so.

Super Super beat The End because he’s superior to the Titans to an unknown extent + had a Titan backing him up.
 
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