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Without further context, outlier for Shadow. There's simply no ignoring the blatant power growth that occurs in Forces and Frontiers
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Sonic General Discussion Zone Act 1: New Frontiers
- Thread starter Maverick_Zero_X
- Start date
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Sonic grows in power since...well, always
Ghengiroo115
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If this is a Shadow from the same time period as Gens Sonic, we just ignore it since it causes circular scaling via all Forces-Frontiers characters being unfathomably more powerful (also it could potentially affect the legitimacy of scaling to other bosses like Perfect Chaos and Metal Overlord, though if it’s a Sage boss I think that scaling to them will stay).
If this is a Shadow from post-Frontiers, we hope the boss is Sage and not Knight because that leaves a really uncomfortable convo if it’s the latter (Knight technically wouldn’t cause any broken scaling, but post-Frontiers characters scaling to a peak Super Sonic level character from literally last game is really iffy).
If there’s some additional context we don’t know about, it’s impossible to say.
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I wouldn't be surprised if the Doom Powers acted as an in-story amp to explain why Shadow suddenly jumped two whole titles/one whole transformation of scaling.
MysticMania
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What if the TailsTube 1 purple hair human girl is in DC x Sonic
I'm excited to see what Ian does with Shadow Generations.
I'm excited to see what Ian does with Shadow Generations.
Ghengiroo115
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I never thought about that. I did consider “oh maybe he’s stronger while he has the Doom Power active” prior to footage of him damaging Metal Overlord in base, but I didn’t consider the idea of him having a general boost just due to Black Doom’s influence.
It does make me wonder though if that would mean we couldn’t use Shadow Gens stuff for any base cast scaling. Maybe we could do something with Infinite or something, but idk if that would even work and that would still entirely depend on whether or not there’s a Knight boss.
Imma be real I’ve lost all faith in her actually being in a Sonic story.
ShakeResounding
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I know we've discussed this topic to death and back, but Sega wanting the cast to never grow in power fails to make sense when there's 15+ instances that infer a member of the cast growing in strength. Battle alone has like half a dozen, we've had half a dozen more within the past three mainline games, etc., Shadow Gens included now cuz of Metal Overlord.
Then we have shit like Scrapnik Mecha, or in this case potentially post-Forces circular scaling. Even assuming the cast don't grow in power, stuff like this STILL makes no narrative sense. They already fear power-creep for Super-esque forms, we don't need that fear with the Base Cast.
Mini-rant over. In excited for Chao Tales!
Then we have shit like Scrapnik Mecha, or in this case potentially post-Forces circular scaling. Even assuming the cast don't grow in power, stuff like this STILL makes no narrative sense. They already fear power-creep for Super-esque forms, we don't need that fear with the Base Cast.
Mini-rant over. In excited for Chao Tales!
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He later said in a recent bumblekast that he "maybe" remembers when someone asked if someone did
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See, my qustion is like, if Mephiles exists now, and Iblis exists now, shouldn't Solaris exist? It feels as if Shadow Gens might be the gateway to revisiting that boss. Not in THIS title, but perhaps a future entry. Also, it means that there's a strong possibility that as Eggman battles Bowser he could just toss his ass to Solaris and have the Sun-Time God fight the Koopa King and that's kind of hilarious.
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Which is the more likely interpretation considering that Silver is shown not to rember it in the same interaction. So clearly they didn't forget about the timeline reset
ShakeResounding
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Mfw Eggman can canonically recreate Solaris using the Time Eater now. Bowserbros...?
Ghengiroo115
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So the PlayStation State of Play just casually unveiled that the bonus level for SxS Generations is a level based off scenes from the upcoming Sonic 3, with a movie Shadow skin and being voiced by Keanu from what I can hear.
So is SEGA trying to make the movie continuity part of the same multiverse? Because that's neat.ISPOILER]
So is SEGA trying to make the movie continuity part of the same multiverse? Because that's neat.ISPOILER]
ShakeResounding
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That is so f#%king sick and this game is gonna be PEAK.
It all makes sense
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That idea was from Ian to be honest
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It all makes sense now, everything
Ghengiroo115
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Lowkey I was originally hoping for a Gotham City stage and Bathog skin, though after hearing the DC crossover was only properly starting in 2025 I knew that was too good to be true. A movie stage/skin is pretty sick too, though.
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I mean... That might be outside help. It's not even summoning. Just warping Bowser to another location to make him fight someone else. Eggman is also putting himself and his entire reality at stake by doing this. He should just use the Time Eater directly. He's almost as useful as Solaris anyway.
Ghengiroo115
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Btw we all agree Sonic’s Reverse-Flash is Metal Sonic, right? Red eyes, comes from the future, obsessed with their rival and wants/wanted to be them, names are their rival’s names with an extra bit added, etc. Like it’s such a perfect choice it almost feels intentional.
MysticMania
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Mainline Shadow is brought from White Space into the Movie universe.
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Make Scourge canon you cowards
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I mean stuff like Tangle, Avatar, Babylon Rogues or DEADLY SIX being more powerful than Emerl, Zavok overwhelming a more powerful Sonic and Classic Sonic instantly being on par with Modern doesn't make any sense to me either and i would rather just headcanon that Ultimate Emerl was a Super Sonic fight, and other instances of Sonic supposedly getting much stronger is more than likely just Sonic Team and Sega making their gary stu character as cool as possible only to forget that it happened later (The whole moon being broken, Eggman and Sonic thinking they are teaming up for the first time in LW etc)
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Cinos
Ghengiroo115
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Tbh I’m not sure Scourge would work as the Reverse-Flash as well as Metal does. Admittedly I don’t actually know much about Scourge so I could be missing something huge, but Metal just has so many traits similar to Thawne and is a far more relevant character in the franchise that I can’t see Scourge having anything that could make him the better choice.
Scourge being canon would be sweet though. While I don’t know much about him, I’ve always been a sucker for that jacket and the reversed fur and eye colours. Funnily enough he and Surge have both similar design philosophies and similar names, to the point that I’m 99% sure it was intentional.
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BFR is a valid ability and means of Summoning in Death Battle. Also, so long as it kills your opponent (first) the fact it causes suicide is negligent and also allows it to be viable in a Death Battle. Good examples of the former are Xeno Trunks, the Phoenix, and Ant-Man, and good examples of the latter would be Gray (from Fairy Tail), Might Gai, or Rock Lee.
Can you post the link?
Ghengiroo115
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Shadic
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I think Scourge is a mix of Joker and Thawne. His existence is a cosmic forced role he plays that begins and ends around his enemy like Thawne, his philosophy ("One Bad Day,") echoes Joker, his way of beating Sonic is being Sonic as a character but inverted and amplifed like Thawne, his aesthetic matches more closely to Joker's in the sense of being a stylistic embodiment of Anarchy and caused by a green gem like Joker was made by green goo, etc.
Also, I think Scourge and Surge would be perfect partners in crime and an interesting dynamic as they both hate what makes them perfect for each other.
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In terms of personality and pettiness, Scourge is way closer to Reverse Flash. Metal Sonic being from the future is a headcanon, too
Ghengiroo115
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And this is why I prefaced by saying I knew not that much about Scourge lol. I can definitely see where people are coming from now with him being Thawne. I still prefer Metal, both for the reasons I already listed and how he’s just a copy of Sonic (like how Thawne is a copy of the Flash) and not actually an evil Sonic like Scourge is. While I do agree that Scourge has the better personality, Metal’s Heroes personality works well enough. Plus it’s not as if they have to be 100% accurate to the personalities of their characters (if anything I’d argue that’s one of the least important parts).
Tbh from what little I know of the two I’m not sure if Surge would actually like Scourge. I’m obviously not the best judge though, I like to just keep to the games because that’s where my comfort zone lies lol
Ghengiroo115
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True, but Heroes Metal has enough to get the general dynamic going. Plus IMO and seemingly as far as Sega themselves are concerned, the personalities are some of the least important aspects to the character roles.
To be honest whenever I see it mentioned people always talk about it as if it was canon, so I just assumed it actually was. I guess that’s my mistake. Metal does still have a bit more association with time travel due to his debut in CD, but I guess the full-on “from the future” association doesn’t work as well anymore. However I do still think a character possibly from the future makes more sense for a Thawne counterpart than a character from a different universe entirely, not to mention the other reasons I think Metal is the better choice.
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To quote myself:
"Speaking of Surge, in my head Scourge and Surge are perfect for each other in the most ironic of twists. It's only tangentially related, but after the RandomGoonVO vid of Scourge meeting Surge and doing the “You’d make a great couple,” I now headcanon that they legitimately are perfect for each other and they absolutely hate it. They’re so in sync and have even knocked boots but they’ll never admit to being more than just haters for each other--Because Scourge is everything Surge hates about Sonic, and Surge is everything Scourge hates about himself, which in effect makes them even more perfect for, and against, each other. Paradoxically."
You have to consider what they are personality wise. Arrogant, punkish self centered individuals who believe they have a right to lash out as they do due to their trauma (Scourge being abandoned emotionally and mentally by his father, who caused the Great Collapse and caused worldwide anarchy Anti-Sonic grew up in after he killed his own father, and Surge's abandonment, programming, experimentation, and mind overwrite by Starline) and their power (Sonic V Scourge on Moebius, Surge V Metal), hating the idea of being controlled (Scourge by the Multiverse, Finitevus, and others, Surge by Starline, Clutch, Eggman, etc.) who style themselves in punk and rebellion, whilst also being mirrors and critiques of Sonic's values. They are perfectly made for each other, because they together are everything they need for introspection, emotional nourishment, advancement as people, etc. At the same time, they are self-destructive, reject growth, and hurt those they love or care for. They would hate that they're perfect for each other, which makes them more perfect for each other. Furthermore, they exist as the things they despise to each other, and would drive them further towards and apart from one another. They're this paradoxical perfect pair.
"Speaking of Surge, in my head Scourge and Surge are perfect for each other in the most ironic of twists. It's only tangentially related, but after the RandomGoonVO vid of Scourge meeting Surge and doing the “You’d make a great couple,” I now headcanon that they legitimately are perfect for each other and they absolutely hate it. They’re so in sync and have even knocked boots but they’ll never admit to being more than just haters for each other--Because Scourge is everything Surge hates about Sonic, and Surge is everything Scourge hates about himself, which in effect makes them even more perfect for, and against, each other. Paradoxically."
You have to consider what they are personality wise. Arrogant, punkish self centered individuals who believe they have a right to lash out as they do due to their trauma (Scourge being abandoned emotionally and mentally by his father, who caused the Great Collapse and caused worldwide anarchy Anti-Sonic grew up in after he killed his own father, and Surge's abandonment, programming, experimentation, and mind overwrite by Starline) and their power (Sonic V Scourge on Moebius, Surge V Metal), hating the idea of being controlled (Scourge by the Multiverse, Finitevus, and others, Surge by Starline, Clutch, Eggman, etc.) who style themselves in punk and rebellion, whilst also being mirrors and critiques of Sonic's values. They are perfectly made for each other, because they together are everything they need for introspection, emotional nourishment, advancement as people, etc. At the same time, they are self-destructive, reject growth, and hurt those they love or care for. They would hate that they're perfect for each other, which makes them more perfect for each other. Furthermore, they exist as the things they despise to each other, and would drive them further towards and apart from one another. They're this paradoxical perfect pair.
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I don't trust Ian for a second with this, no offense.
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I brought that idea as a mostly joke against Bowser's leap of logic arguments brought about, and the fact Bowser straight up can't kill Solaris because he exists through time, so it's an instant win-con (and he did throw Sonic against Perfect Chaos, so it isn't that OOC for him to throw people to other fighters)
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....
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Analyzing the clip in slow mo, it seems like Mephiles tried to repeat his sneak kill of Sonic. He's not just using the sword, he's actively doing the same assassination attempt/cheapshot.
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That too, hence "knocked boots."
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Thinking on it, I guess White Space also including the Movie Continuity also gives credence to "All space and time" being affected.
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Now we just need confirmation it affected the Boom continuity. That would inadvertantly make the games share a cosmology with Archie (and Sonic X, I guess)
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But what if.......i cross scale the Emeralds from both and make Movie Sonic tier 2?
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