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Sonic General Discussion Zone Act 1: New Frontiers

LaserPrecision said:
Those are just minor/minor editorial mistakes though. If he's seriously trying to argue that editorial mistakes such as spelling errors and misplacement of pictures equate to the information regarding lore being inaccurate, that'd be exceedingly asinine.
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You'll be surprised (or maybe not) how desperate some are to attach themselves to even the smallest sliver of inconsistency in order to "prove" they point.
 
The_Axiom_of_Virgo said:
You'll be surprised (or maybe not) how desperate some are to attach themselves to even the smallest sliver of inconsistency in order to "prove" they point.
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I don't even think it's that half of the time. I think some people actually just don't understand that something doesn't have to be 100% consistent to provide accurate data/information. There can be illogical or inconsistencies in a guide, either by mistake, or to retcon old data, but that doesn't automatically discredit the rest of the source. This isn't like in court, where someone who is inconsistent or proven to lie or to consistently provide inaccurate data should be ignored because an important verdict is on the line and one can't afford to make a legal mistake there. In fiction, things are much laxer.

This is a bit extreme though. HE ACCIDENTALLY SPELLED BRIDGE WRONG, THAT MUST MEAN ALL THE LORE AND CONTEXT ABOUT THE EVENTS REGARDING ALL OF THOSE STORIES ARE INCORRECT!

That's assuming what Fireld said regarding what they were calling out as mistakes are right. But I feel that's not the case. I don't think JJ would actually believe that. Based on the content I saw from them years back, I don't think that's the case.
 
The_Axiom_of_Virgo said:
The "encyclo-speed-ia" is still more reliable than some randos online that simply can't accept how powerful the Sonic franchise truly is and yet conveniently they usually can't bring up solid evidence to prove their case (strange isn't it?) and quickly resort to poisoning the well or playing victim when they points get refuted.
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Speaking of reliable sources, does anybody have flash working? I'm having trouble trying to check most sonic game websites made after 2006.
The_Axiom_of_Virgo said:
Sonic detractors
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Smash Bracket
 
ShakeResounding said:
That is absolutely NOT where the main argument comes from, what are you on about? Hell, Sonic is even being tagged in after SILVER. The guy fighting in the FUTURE. It's even noted in the profile, but I'll just remind some stuff. Here and here, for example. It isn't just Sonic, Shadow is reacting to an attack that goes from the present (Sonic) to the past (Shadow). AKA Shadow's future. Type 1 doesn't cover that.

Solaris' attacks are Temporally Omnipresent, they're existing in all points of time at once. Stop clinging onto "past" and start clinging onto "all of time".
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I don’t think dodging attacks from the future is covered under immeasurable, the examples are dodging attacks that have already struck (I.e. from the past), and striking someone before you launch an attack. I understand the second one to an extent, Sonic is able to hit Solaris even when Solaris can see where and when Sonic is going to go at all times so Sonic is attacking Solaris before he attacked from Solaris’s perspective, although I’m not sure if what I’m saying is correct (it can also theoretically be done with temporal AOE iirc). But dealing with attacks from the past can also be accomplished with acausality, since the attacks are spread across time and not all homing in one point in time, so I just wanted to be sure no acausality was abused.
 
sanicspood said:
can u prove that with ontological imperical, imperceptible evidence?
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aaf.png
 
JJSliderman said:
I don’t think dodging attacks from the future is covered under immeasurable, the examples are dodging attacks that have already struck (I.e. from the past), and striking someone before you launch an attack. I understand the second one to an extent, Sonic is able to hit Solaris even when Solaris can see where and when Sonic is going to go at all times so Sonic is attacking Solaris before he attacked from Solaris’s perspective, although I’m not sure if what I’m saying is correct (it can also theoretically be done with temporal AOE iirc). But dealing with attacks from the past can also be accomplished with acausality, since the attacks are spread across time and not all homing in one point in time, so I just wanted to be sure no acausality was abused.
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Brother, dodging an attack that traveled through time is an Immeasurable speed feat. Being able to travel through time freely (as Solaris' attacks can) is one of the most basic qualifications for Immeasurable speed. Of course, there are exceptions such as if it's done via explicitly traveling at a very specific speed, or time manip, but Solaris' attacks just casually go through time via their speed.
 
I love how the encyclopedia gave us some good extra info but also took Chronicles. "Win some, lose some" I suppose.
 
LaserPrecision said:
Brother, dodging an attack that traveled through time is an Immeasurable speed feat. Being able to travel through time freely (as Solaris' attacks can) is one of the most basic qualifications for Immeasurable speed. Of course, there are exceptions such as if it's done via explicitly traveling at a very specific speed, or time manip, but Solaris' attacks just casually go through time via their speed.
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But they don’t travel through time, they just exist in all the same time points Solaris does.
 
JJSliderman said:
But they don’t travel through time, they just exist in all the same time points Solaris does.
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You can quite literally switch between the characters in the Solaris fight, and his attack will go from that point in time to the point in time of the new character. That would mean Solaris' attack went from one point in time to another. The fact he was able to affect and threaten to destroy all of time (including parallel Timelines) should already easily tell you Solaris possesses immeasurable speed.
 
The attacks appear in the same orientation because they’re fired across all of time simultaneously, not because they time travel.
 
The_Axiom_of_Virgo said:
Welp... it was nice knowing Fireld but you brought sacrilege to our sacred discussion thread and thus you must be banished to the Shadow Realm beyond the gates of the Ultimate Null Void, cya!
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Not if chaos control my way out of your trap card. They deleted my comment too, wasted time oof
 
JJSliderman said:
The attacks appear in the same orientation because they’re fired across all of time simultaneously, not because they time travel.
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Solaris explicitly exists in the Past, Present, and Future. As stated by Eggman. His power can reach/travel to all points in time simultaneously. That would already warrant Immeasurable speed. The fact that the Hedgehogs also wouldn't have the same exact orientation throughout time would mean Solaris is simply looking crazy firing attacks randomly in different periods of time. But they're able to redirect said attacks into a different point across times by changing their orientation to the Hedgehogs.

Edit: Now that I think of it, Solaris' attacks aren't even present across all of time simultaneously all the time. That would simply be when he's devouring it all at once but to even do that his attacks would have to travel across time. You wouldn't be able to destroy time by simply destroying/affecting space in 3 different time periods. That would simply only be traversing space in several localized places. The laser attacks and meteors on the other hand are explicitly meant to hit the Super Hedgehog they're fighting at that time.
 
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But Solaris isn’t randomly attacking, his attacks are across all of time by default because his body is across time. I’ve just never heard of dodging attacks coming from the future qualifying for immeasurable, which kinda makes sense because the attack hasn’t happened yet from the character’s perspective, as opposed to the past where it already happened and they should logically have already gotten hit by it. But acausality could cover that aspect.
 
JJSliderman said:
But Solaris isn’t randomly attacking, his attacks are across all of time by default because his body is across time. I’ve just never heard of dodging attacks coming from the future qualifying for immeasurable, which kinda makes sense because the attack hasn’t happened yet from the character’s perspective, as opposed to the past where it already happened and they should logically have already gotten hit by it. But acausality could cover that aspect.
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His body exists across time, but that doesn't mean he's always attacking across all of time. This is why the Hedgehogs could take breaks to recover energy in their battle against Solaris. Because Solaris wasn't full agro attacking at all times across the Past, Present, and Future. So when we see Solaris attack in the Past, Present, or Future, and swap to another character and we see their attack suddenly in that new time period, that attack simply went from one point in time to another. Simple as that.
 
The_Axiom_of_Virgo said:
The "encyclo-speed-ia" is still more reliable than some randos online that simply can't accept how powerful the Sonic franchise truly is and yet conveniently they usually can't bring up solid evidence to prove their case (strange isn't it?) and quickly resort to poisoning the well or playing victim when they points get refuted.
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So Goku fanboys then?
The_Axiom_of_Virgo said:
I honestly don't blame Sonic fans sometimes losing they temper when dealing with others who have such vehement hate or negativity towards a fictional blue hedgehog and his fans.
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Same, although the Sonic fans who lose their temper are usually the Meta Era fanboys who like games like Console Colors, Lost World (in general) and Forces.
The_Axiom_of_Virgo said:
@JJSliderman At the risk of sounding like a zoomer, please stop letting those Sonic detractors live rent free in your head my dude. I get we sometimes have to play Mephiles' advocate to cover our bases but this circular argument with Solaris every few months is getting old now.

It's kinda a twisted tradition here that every once in awhile some doubt is cast on the context of what exactly happened in Sonic 06 lol! Are we trapped in a never-ending paradox?
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Don't bring up Paradox again please... unless you want me to drop an entire voice acting tree on how Sonic, Yu-Gi-Oh!, Puyo Puyo, and Transformers are all connected.
 
Pretty sure the hedgehogs could take breaks because Solaris didn’t always attack, but when he did those attacks were across all of time.
 
JJSliderman said:
Pretty sure the hedgehogs could take breaks because Solaris didn’t always attack, but when he did those attacks were across all of time.
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No. The issue with that is if his attacks were all throughout time, while the others were taking a break, they wouldn't be able to take a break, as they'd have to keep avoiding Solaris' attacks. Which defeats the purpose of taking a break to recoup energy. If he were attacking Shadow for example, he's not also attacking the Future and Present simultaneously (Though if Solaris wanted to, they could given they can erase entire timelines in one go if they want to), which is why the other two can take a break while one takes their turn fighting Solaris. True Solaris wasn't attacking non-stop with no breathers between, but at best they got a couple of seconds of a breather (from our perspective of time, for them it would obviously be infinitesimally less).
 
LaserPrecision said:
No. The issue with that is if his attacks were all throughout time, while the others were taking a break, they wouldn't be able to take a break, as they'd have to keep avoiding Solaris' attacks.
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Except that Solaris isn't bothering to attack them all at once (from their perspectives), no? Because I'm pretty sure that's what's supposed to be garnered from the fight.
 
I just wanted proof that acausality wasn’t abused to deal with Solaris’s attacks occurring in the past, and how dodging attacks existing in the future qualifies as immeasurable. I’ve been assuming that Solaris’s attacks are just across all of time, and not traveling to each period to match the hedgehog.
 
ShakeResounding said:
Except that Solaris isn't bothering to attack them all at once (from their perspectives), no? Because I'm pretty sure that's what's supposed to be garnered from the fight.
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Are you agreeing with me here? I feel like you are, as my argument is that Solaris isn't bothering to attack all three of them at once/simultaneously, and instead is taking them on one at a time in their respective time periods. Unless you're disagreeing with them taking a break and having turns?
 
I'm pretty sure that the hedgehogs, for example, Sonic, can be hurt by an attack Solaris sends to another hedgehog, such as Shadow

That would mean that the attacks can definitely travel through time to hit any of the three hedgehog regardless of which hedgehog Solaris aimed the attack at
 
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Correct. He'll turn around as they typically appear on the opposite side of him and the attack will be redirected/launched at them. If you get hit depends on if you move or not though.
 
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