Sonic General Discussion Zone Act 1: New Frontiers

[Peptocoptr27]

This part of Sonic's characterization doesn't bother me if it only takes place shortly after Advance 3. The part that bothers me is that Sonic is ******* STUPID. An absolute moron who is also way too clumsy for being someone so known for his agility.

 

[ShakeResounding]

Of course I'm always willing to be proven wrong and I imagine that Sonic's personality went through a modicum of improvement during all three seasons,

As somebody who watched all 3 seasons, barely.

This part of Sonic's characterization doesn't bother me if it only takes place shortly after Advance 3.

You're gonna hate what IGN said.

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

This part of Sonic's characterization doesn't bother me if it only takes place shortly after Advance 3. The part that bothers me is that Sonic is ******* STUPID. An absolute moron who is also way too clumsy for being someone so known for his agility.

You know what you just did? You perfectly helped me realize what my issue is with that aspect of Sonic's character, because I agree: Sonic is an idiot in this show when, contrary to popular belief, he's actually way smarter then what's perceived and the dude holds a lot of experience and wisdom in his mind and soul to an extent that I find Sonic's reckless shattering of the Paradox Prism to be blatantly OOC because Sonic should be experienced enough to know the risks of interacting with artifacts and things which he has no sodding clue of what they do.

As somebody who watched all 3 seasons, barely.

.....Goddamn it.

 

[Peptocoptr27]

You know what you just did? You perfectly helped me realize what my issue is with that aspect of Sonic's character, because I agree: Sonic is an idiot in this show when, contrary to popular belief, he's actually way smarter then what's perceived and the dude holds a lot of experience and wisdom in his mind and soul to an extent that I find Sonic's reckless shattering of the Paradox Prism to be blatantly OOC because Sonic should be experienced enough to know the risks of interacting with artifacts and things which he has no sodding clue of what they do.

.....Goddamn it.

Sonic is wise, but he still has an attitude of "act first, ask questions later" that persists even in Frontiers. His breaking of the prism is still not something that he would do at any point in the modern era, but I could maybe buy him doing it in the adventure era. This mistake could even be the catalyst of his character devellopment.

The thing is, even this decision aside, Sonic is still absolutely brain dead in this show. He lacks the common sense to understand the most basic and blatant situations in front of him at several points.

 

[ShakeResounding]

@The_Unknown_Warrior1 I'll elaborate for you from my perspective.

Since you put if amazingly when you said it was the "second 06" (the plot undoing itself), we're supposed to take it at face value and go with Sonic learning his lesson and valuing/listening to his friends more. There's a problem I have with that.

Firstly, while one could argue instances where Sonic has displayed similar traits elsewhere (Tails' 30th anniversary comic and Lost world, even if LW is just shitty writing in general), Prime just takes it to a whole other level. It's already been said, but Sonic is just a plain moron with room-temp IQ.

Secondly, Sonic already valued his friends with his actions alone. That's a fundamental principle to his character. He didn't need such a big f-ck up to re-teach him something he's already known, be it from Sonic 2 Game Gear to Sonic Heroes to Secret Rings to- you get the point.

Thirdly, and what I was implying to Pepto, is that IGN has a statement saying Prime takes place in the future in relation to the games. That makes everything about the show worse. And this is ignoring the inconsistencies, like the "Badniks without Flickies?" thing.

I'll give it this though. Fight choreography got better with each season, I thin

 

[Fastestthingalive50]

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

@The_Unknown_Warrior1 I'll elaborate for you from my perspective.

Since you put if amazingly when you said it was the "second 06" (the plot undoing itself), we're supposed to take it at face value and go with Sonic learning his lesson and valuing/listening to his friends more. There's a problem I have with that.

Firstly, while one could argue instances where Sonic has displayed similar traits elsewhere (Tails' 30th anniversary comic and Lost world, even if LW is just shitty writing in general), Prime just takes it to a whole other level. It's already been said, but Sonic is just a plain moron with room-temp IQ.

Secondly, Sonic already valued his friends with his actions alone. That's a fundamental principle to his character. He didn't need such a big f-ck up to re-teach him something he's already known, be it from Sonic 2 Game Gear to Sonic Heroes to Secret Rings to- you get the point.

Thirdly, and what I was implying to Pepto, is that IGN has a statement saying Prime takes place in the future in relation to the games. That makes everything about the show worse. And this is ignoring the inconsistencies, like the "Badniks without Flickies?" thing.

I'll give it this though. Fight choreography got better with each season, I thin

So what your saying, it being canon ruined it?

 

[ShakeResounding]

So what your saying, it being canon ruined it?

Being post-Orbot and Cubot ruined it.

 

[Alexander]

Being post-Orbot and Cubot ruined it.

it can be everywhere,some games happen in the same day,and there is weeks between games at least

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

So who’s dumber, Sonic Prime Sonic or Metal Virus arc Shadow?

 

[Accelerated_Evolution]

So who’s dumber, Sonic Prime Sonic or Metal Virus arc Shadow?

Knuckles from the start of Sonic X

 

[Alexander]

and the be honest,prime sonic has his moments of being smart

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

So who’s dumber, Sonic Prime Sonic or Metal Virus arc Shadow?

I'd say MV Shadow no diff, because it was one of the peaks of the complete character assassination my favorite hedgehog has gone through since the end of Sonic and the Black Knight.

Sonic from Sonic Prime is pretty ass, but at least it's only a few years of being an idiot in a show as opposed to nearly a decade of mischaracterization from anything Shadow was in during the 2010's. That's why I pray that Sonic 3 does Shadow's character justice so that it gets SEGA to reevaluate how they write Shadow and fix things accordingly for the better

 

[Fastestthingalive50]

Knuckles from the start of Sonic X

Knuckles is just pretty gullible due to being away from any social interaction for most of his life, he isn’t stupid.

So who’s dumber, Sonic Prime Sonic or Metal Virus arc Shadow?

That’s tough, but maybe Metal Virus arc Shadow, because Sonic in Sonic Prime I find to not be as stupid as he just is ooc.

 

[Theuser789]

Oof the thread wasn't giving me notifs the past few days.

So, was I the only one bothered by that Gemerl flashback? When I was watching it with my little sister, it stuck with me for the rest of the episode and my reaction was basically "That's it? That's our 'timeline confirmation'?"

The fight choreography in Season 3 was probably the best notable improvement over the others. Ending was... meh.

That animation was genuinely garbage lmao.

 

[Fastestthingalive50]

That animation was genuinely garbage lmao.

It looked like Sonic for Hire.

 

[Remus1998]

Are y'all talking about the animation with the Classic sprites with the Advance era background?

if so, THAT WAS IN PRIME?

 

[Theuser789]

That's why I pray that Sonic 3 does Shadow's character justice so that it gets SEGA to reevaluate how they write Shadow and fix things accordingly for the better

It was Ian who mischaracterized Shadow in IDW, not Sega lol. All because he couldn't write the story with Shadow around.

So who’s dumber, Sonic Prime Sonic or Metal Virus arc Shadow?

For me it's Prime simply because he stays with us for longer.

 

[Theuser789]

Are y'all talking about the animation with the Classic sprites with the Advance era background?

if so, THAT WAS IN PRIME?

Yes.

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

It was Ian who mischaracterized Shadow in IDW, not Sega lol. All because he couldn't write the story with Shadow around.

That's a pretty fair point to be said, I don't know I guess I'm just really jaded when it comes to Shadow's been depicted in Sonic media (Though stuff like The Murder of Sonic the Hedgehog and the later half of the Eggperial City arc in the comics have mitigated this somewhat) over the last few years because Shadow's genuinely in my top ten favorite characters in fiction and I hate the rep he gets that he's some edge lord that acts as a dark counter to Sonic when he always has been and can be so much more then that

 

[Accelerated_Evolution]

Does Camelot (Sonic and the Black Knight) have anything that is interesting to note (like the Arabian Nights have the infinite palace and the astral plane)?

 

[Remus1998]

Was anyone observing the Sonic Man vs Mephiles poll?

 

[GlaceonGamez471]

SONICMAN SWEEP

 

[Remus1998]

SONICMAN SWEEP

YESSIR, ANOTHER DAY, ANOTHER MIDPHILES L

 

[Theuser789]

Was anyone observing the Sonic Man vs Mephiles poll?

Our HERO won.

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

Spoiler: Rant I guess?

I don't care if anyone gets offended or thinks I'm a fake fan but at this point I wouldn't mind the verse getting a hard reboot by the end of this decade. I.e: with fewer characters, a more concise timeline/world and a fresh start without the restrictions as well as new designs for fan favourites.

We have reached the point not even Sega nor large swaves of the fandom know what the Sonic timeline actually is (minus the obvious) and between the stale IDW comics, Prime being yet another story that both "did and didn't happen" and lore being scattered across every platform imaginable (Kingdom Hearts each your heart out... less?), trying to tie everything together while still having some semblance of consistency and being understandable to most fans (casuals, hard-core and scalers alike) is simply not feasible (assuming Sega is truly committed to keeping Sonic a character/story driven franchise). I mean there are characters (e.g: Shadow) that have fundamentally different personalities depending on the story yet are believed to be the same character in ALL of them (Adventure era Shadow, Prime Shadow and IDW Shadow are NOT the same character, period), there's nothing wrong with experimenting or developing a character but when you consistently make the core of that character inconsistent then who is this character suppose to be? as well as appeal to?

Also yet another Sonic TV series/animated run where Blaze and Silver get shafted, we get even more watered down versions of pre-established characters and Sonic's kill count increases yet again but remember he's the "hero" LMAO!!!

That's my semi-rant over and unless someone pisses on the Moon (i.e; we get Adventure remakes or Advance/Rush games ported to modern consoles), nothing will change my opinion/PoV.

 

[Alexander]

Spoiler: Rant I guess?

I don't care if anyone gets offended or thinks I'm a fake fan but at this point I wouldn't mind the verse getting a hard reboot by the end of this decade. I.e: with fewer characters, a more concise timeline/world and a fresh start without the restrictions as well as new designs for fan favourites.

Sega doesn't even know it's own Sonic timeline and between the stale IDW comics, Prime being yet another story that both "did and didn't happen" and lore being scattered across every platform imaginable (Kingdom Hearts each your heart out... less?), trying to tie everything together while still having some semblance of consistency and being understandable to most fans (casuals, hard-core and scalers alike) is simply not feasible (assuming Sega is truly committed to keeping Sonic a character/story driven franchise). I mean there are characters (e.g: Shadow) that have fundamentally different personalities depending on the story yet are believed to be the same character in ALL of them (Adventure era Shadow, Prime Shadow and IDW Shadow are NOT the same character, period), there's nothing wrong with experimenting with or developing a character but when you consistently make the core of that character inconsistent then who is this character suppose to be? as well as appeal to?

Also yet another Sonic TV series/animated run where Blaze and Silver get shafted, we get even more watered down versions of pre-established characters and Sonic's kill count increases yet again but remember he's the "hero" lMAO!!!

That's my semi-rant over and unless someone pisses on the Moon (i.e; we get Adventure remakes or Advance/Rush games ported to modern consoles), nothing will change my opinion/PoV.

when you say adventure shadow,you mean game shadow?

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

when you say adventure shadow,you mean game shadow?

Semantics but yeah more or less (TSR Shadow was an "anomaly").

 

[Clown96]

i always thought that idw was pretty much a separate thing

 

[Peptocoptr27]

i always thought that idw was pretty much a separate thing

I mean, it takes place after Forces and the events of the previous games are commonly brought up. There's also several references to them in Frontiers. Them being canon is not as wierd as Prime being canon.

 

[Peptocoptr27]

Sonic's kill count increases yet again but remember he's the "hero" LMAO!!!

Who did Sonic kill in Prime?

 

[Remus1998]

Who did Sonic kill in Prime?

Technically everyone in the original universe

 

[Alexander]

Technically everyone in the original universe

i will not count it,if it was not his hands,then it will not be counted.

 

[Peptocoptr27]

So how big is the main universe? I'm confused. If Sonic's universe is just one shatterspace among 5 others within a supposidly larger universe, does that mean every universal feat involving the main universe is 2-C or are we to assume that those feats only affected that singular shatterspace where green hill is?

 

[y3p_owo]

It's just one universe. The Shatterspace stuff was undone from what I understand.

 

[Peptocoptr27]

It's just one universe. The Shatterspace stuff was undone from what I understand.

Have you actually seen the ending? It wasn't undone. The other shatterspaces were in fact restored with no hint of ever going anywhere. The events of the games just take place in the "Green Hill" shatterspace now. Even if it was undone, the shatterspaces still exist SOMEWHERE in the timeline, which would mean that it has to be large enough to contain a 2-C structure at all times.

 

[Remus1998]

Well its now large to be split into separate space-times

 

[ShakeResounding]

Even if it was undone, the shatterspaces still exist SOMEWHERE in the timeline, which would mean that it has to be large enough to contain a 2-C structure at all times.

I was contemplating earlier and it's basically this. There are a few statements where Sonic's universe is referred to as being "fractured" or "splintered" and the likes. The latter of which plainly meaning "to break into small, sharp pieces".

So even if the Shatterspaces literally ceased existing at the end of Prime (which is what I personally thought happened), it would be as Pepto said. Still large enough to fracture into 5 (6 at the end) separate space-times, even though it never happened.

 

[Peptocoptr27]

I was contemplating earlier and it's basically this. There are a few statements where Sonic's universe is referred to as being "fractured" or "splintered" and the likes. The latter of which plainly meaning "to break into small, sharp pieces".

So even if the Shatterspaces literally ceased existing at the end of Prime (which is what I personally thought happened), it would be as Pepto said. Still large enough to fracture into 5 (6 at the end) separate space-times, even though it never happened.

Where is it ever implied the shatterspaces ceased to exist? All that happened is that a new one was created for Sonic and Shadow, which they went into. That shatterspace is where the Paradox Prism is stored. The events unfolding in it are identical to the ones that took place in the original universe prior to the prism's destruction, but that doesn't mean the other shatterspaces just arbitrarily stopped existing as soon as Sonic went in this new one. The fact that no one was worried about characters like Thorn, Rebel and Nine would cease to exist is proof of this. They even had a deal about not messing with each other despite what Nine did. They wouldn't need to make that deal if they were gonna be erased anyway.

 

[JJSliderman]

5-6x uni for Sonic’s universe seems fine to me yeah.

I did bring that up in the 5-D CRT, good thing nothing changed.