Sonic General Discussion Zone Act 1: New Frontiers

[MysticMania]

Sonic also let Metal Sonic live at the end of Heroes, as another example.

 

[ShakeResounding]

I mean..........Sonic didn't said anything against Shadow or Silver when they turned a new leaf, Sonic's main characterisric is freedom, for himself and everyone else, it isn't like he tries to redeem Eggman, but i think that it is obvious that he would like him to come arround one day......isn't that obvious to any hero to his arch nemesis?

Because Shadow was a person he just met, and thus would have no reason to NOT give him a second chance. Same applies to Silver, he was just more persistent.

Comparing either to Eggman is bad.

 

[ShakeResounding]

Sonic also let Metal Sonic live at the end of Heroes, as another example.

Probably because destroying him wouldn't change the fact Dr. Eggman can rebuild it. Something he's done in the past, even. So it ultimately wouldn't matter.

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

I mean, Silver tried to murder him and Shadow almost genocided all the human population, yet he didn't cared in letting them become allies out of nowhere

I can say that it is a little naive of Sonic, but i can't say that it isn't on his character to have this mindset

Fair enough points, but I got my issues with this defense of yours if I might be allowed to elaborate a bit more:

1. Both of those instances were one time incidents, Shadow and Silver have remained allies since then and haven't done anything heinous. Eggman, meanwhile, has consistently remained and continues to be one of the biggest threats of Sonic's world and the freedom of those who live in it, constantly coming up with new ways of bringing misery and pain to the world without a hint of remorse, indicating that Eggman has no current plans of seeking redemption.

2. Shadow and SIlver's actions were far more complicated then when it's said aloud. Shadow's reasoning for nearly destroying the entire world, for starters, was revealed in game to be the result of Gerald secretly brainwashing Shadow when the later was in stasis for 50 years and implanted false memories into him so that he believed his whole goal was to seek revenge against humanity for Maria's death. Once Amy helped Shadow remember what Maria truly wanted from Shadow before she died, he immediately abandoned this goal and assisted Sonic and co into stopping the Ark from falling into the planet. And as for Silver? Silver was tricked by Mephiles into killing Sonic under the pretenses that Sonic was the "Iblis Trigger" and the one who was ultimately responible for Silver's horrible future, something you can't really fault Silver for since he was desperate to destroy Iblis after years of fighting him. But like Shadow once Silver was given the truth of the matter and realized that Sonic wasn't the enemy, he sought to wrought his wrongs and helped Sonic save Elise from Eggman and ultimately helping everyone end Solaris, now still remaining one of Sonic's most reliable allies.

So in conclusion, Shadow and Silver's hostilities had more layers to it and they were almost immediately rectified. But Eggman's universally done horrible things and has hurt people time and time again even when given chance after chance from Sonic, which therefore proves my belief that Sonic should learn that not everyone is deserving of second chances or freedom when they keep squandering it.

 

[ShakeResounding]

Based Unknown smelling the coffee of reality

 

[Alexander]

which therefore proves my belief that Sonic should learn that not everyone is deserving of second chances or freedom when they keep squandering it.

sometimes characters just don't want to break their ideals,some characters do,but the author or writer wanted those characters to have those ideals and then be broken,but some characters cannot simply broke their ideals,they simply can't.

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

Based Unknown smelling the coffee of reality

Sonic the Hedgehog is one of my all time favorite franchises and one I have a passion for, I could dead ass write an entire essay explaining why Shadow is unironically one of the best written characters in fiction and why he's more layered then what the internet will tell you about.

Also to add onto your point about Metal Sonic, coalescing the meaningless about destroying Metal since Eggman can rebuild it, you could also reasonably argue as well that Sonic feels more sympathy for Metal since the later's a machine that follows the orders of its creator without much opportunity to think on his own. Adding on top of the fact that other Eggman created machines like Omega and Gemerl were able to reform and become allies to Sonic, Sonic probably feels Metal could do the same as those two did if Metal wasn't hellbent on being the one true Sonic. Hell the Reflections issue which was running alongside the Metal Virus arc could infer that Metal might internally be suffering with existentialism at the fact that he was created to be the one true Sonic but isn't and, if you think about it, that his sole purpose in existence is to destroy Sonic but can never win. So, really, it's possible that Metal's inability to reform is his internal refusal to accept the fact that he was built with a purpose that he can never truly fulfill and can never become the one true Sonic.

 

[Fireld]

Probably because destroying him wouldn't change the fact Dr. Eggman can rebuild it. Something he's done in the past, even. So it ultimately wouldn't matter.

That and he likes testing his skills fighting Metal according to Sonic Central.

 

[ShakeResounding]

Also to add onto your point about Metal Sonic, coalescing the meaningless about destroying Metal since Eggman can rebuild it, you could also reasonably argue as well that Sonic feels more sympathy for Metal since the later's a machine that follows the orders of its creator without much opportunity to think on his own.

Ah, very true. Leaving a machine to its creator also aligns with the ideology he has with sealing Erazor within the lamp for all eternity, though Erazor's is more of a karmic retribution.

Adding on top of the fact that other Eggman created machines like Omega and Gemerl were able to reform and become allies to Sonic, Sonic probably feels Metal could do the same as those two did if Metal wasn't hellbent on being the one true Sonic

Very true. His insistence on Metal turning over in IDW is a little too naive for my liking though, because Eggman has explicitly expressed that he's conquered Metal's coding (best shown in Neo Metal's subservience even when Eggman was gone). Metal's hesitation in striking Belle is something I feel to be a red herring, considering Belle registers as EggTech and Metal's instinct was likely to not cause her harm.

which given the Reflections comic, could infer that Metal might internally be suffering with existentialism at the fact that he was created to be the one true Sonic but isn't and, if you think about it, that his sole purpose in existence is to destroy Sonic but can never win...so you could also argue Metal's inability to reform is due to those factors as well.

I loved Reflections, one of the best pieces of Metal Sonic media period. I'll give 'em that

 

[Eseseso]

...Yeah Sonic really shouldn't have spared Eggman.

 

[Alexander]

...Yeah Sonic really shouldn't have spared Eggman.

yeah,but i don't know what will be of the story without eggman,maybe just,sonic having adventures in other universes?like black knights and secret rings style

 

[Eseseso]

yeah,but i don't know what will be of the story without eggman,maybe just,sonic having adventures in other universes?like black knights and secret rings style

Bring back Mephiles/Solaris or something.

 

[JED]

Fair enough points, but I got my issues with this defense of yours if I might be allowed to elaborate a bit more:

1. Both of those instances were one time incidents, Shadow and Silver have remained allies since then and haven't done anything heinous. Eggman, meanwhile, has consistently remained and continues to be one of the biggest threats of Sonic's world and the freedom of those who live in it, constantly coming up with new ways of bringing misery and pain to the world without a hint of remorse, indicating that Eggman has no current plans of seeking redemption.

2. Shadow and SIlver's actions were far more complicated then when it's said aloud. Shadow's reasoning for nearly destroying the entire world, for starters, was revealed in game to be the result of Gerald secretly brainwashing Shadow when the later was in stasis for 50 years and implanted false memories into him so that he believed his whole goal was to seek revenge against humanity for Maria's death. Once Amy helped Shadow remember what Maria truly wanted from Shadow before she died, he immediately abandoned this goal and assisted Sonic and co into stopping the Ark from falling into the planet. And as for Silver? Silver was tricked by Mephiles into killing Sonic under the pretenses that Sonic was the "Iblis Trigger" and the one who was ultimately responible for Silver's horrible future, something you can't really fault Silver for since he was desperate to destroy Iblis after years of fighting him. But like Shadow once Silver was given the truth of the matter and realized that Sonic wasn't the enemy, he sought to wrought his wrongs and helped Sonic save Elise from Eggman and ultimately helping everyone end Solaris, now still remaining one of Sonic's most reliable allies.

So in conclusion, Shadow and Silver's hostilities had more layers to it and they were almost immediately rectified. But Eggman's universally done horrible things and has hurt people time and time again even when given chance after chance from Sonic, which therefore proves my belief that Sonic should learn that not everyone is deserving of second chances or freedom when they keep squandering it.

 

[Alexander]

Bring back Mephiles/Solaris or something.

aparently sega negates any idea of bringing back old ideas and just make them like,you are never gonna come back,or maybe never is a huge thing to say...better ''even if we fall apart,you will not coming back''

 

[JED]

You'd think by a narrative stand point Sonic's whole belief of "everyone should have the freedom to choose and be given a second chance" would've been greatly challenged by the raw evil that was the Metal Virus and Eggman's complete unapologetic feelings to the level of inhumaneness he unleashed upon the world, but apparently Sonic's still willing to let Eggman be given another chance and the ability to choose.

I understand that Sonic at his core is a character who's whole philosophy is being free as the wind and that everyone, good or evil, should be entitled to such freedom as oppose to being controlled, but I think the Metal Virus Arc should've taught Sonic that there are truly people out there which don't deserve such freedoms with Eggman being one such person.

It's his butchering of certain characters. His Shadow is terrible (which he admitted) and he shilled this stupid idea of Sonic wanting Eggman to "come around" so much that it was actually included in his Fast Friends Forever bio. That was never Sonic's M.O.

As much as I disagreed with him letting Eggman go when he became Tinkerer, at the very least, you can (unsuccessfully) argue that since Eggman didn’t remember and seemed like he was tryna do better he could be given a chance.
But there is literally NO EXCUSE for him being so ******* stupid and naive as to reactivate Metal. Even Tails (who is SUPPOSED to be the naive one), saw how blatantly stupid and ignorant that was. It’s not like Metal is a human with feelings for the capacity to change, it’s literally a mindless killing machine who literally no other goal other than to make Sonic’s life hell. Like no that is indefensible imo

 

[omegabronic]

Because Shadow was a person he just met, and thus would have no reason to NOT give him a second chance. Same applies to Silver, he was just more persistent.

Comparing either to Eggman is bad.

i don't see much of a difference, Shadow still tried to do something that not even Eggman would have done, he was, by Sonic's perspective, far worse of a person than Eggman

on Silver? he may be less, but still tried to outright kill him multiple times, not much different from Eggman

also.....isn't the fact that Sonic always lets Eggman live proof enough that he was always like this? why else would he had not killed him yet? Like, if Sonic doesn't believe is "full freedom to change, there is always a chance" then why didn't he finished Eggman in Adventure 1? or Sonic 3 & Knuckles? or Adventure 2? or in any other game for that matter?

Probably because destroying him wouldn't change the fact Dr. Eggman can rebuild it. Something he's done in the past, even. So it ultimately wouldn't matter.

Destroying this model would still be beneficial, as this model in particular is showed to be dangerous enough to plot on his own, besides that Sonic said to him in the end that he could chalenge him again anytime, so the reason that it is given for him to not destroy him is purely because he likes to fight him, at least that is what it is implied

Fair enough points, but I got my issues with this defense of yours if I might be allowed to elaborate a bit more:

1. Both of those instances were one time incidents, Shadow and Silver have remained allies since then and haven't done anything heinous. Eggman, meanwhile, has consistently remained and continues to be one of the biggest threats of Sonic's world and the freedom of those who live in it, constantly coming up with new ways of bringing misery and pain to the world without a hint of remorse, indicating that Eggman has no current plans of seeking redemption.

2. Shadow and SIlver's actions were far more complicated then when it's said aloud. Shadow's reasoning for nearly destroying the entire world, for starters, was revealed in game to be the result of Gerald secretly brainwashing Shadow when the later was in stasis for 50 years and implanted false memories into him so that he believed his whole goal was to seek revenge against humanity for Maria's death. Once Amy helped Shadow remember what Maria truly wanted from Shadow before she died, he immediately abandoned this goal and assisted Sonic and co into stopping the Ark from falling into the planet. And as for Silver? Silver was tricked by Mephiles into killing Sonic under the pretenses that Sonic was the "Iblis Trigger" and the one who was ultimately responible for Silver's horrible future, something you can't really fault Silver for since he was desperate to destroy Iblis after years of fighting him. But like Shadow once Silver was given the truth of the matter and realized that Sonic wasn't the enemy, he sought to wrought his wrongs and helped Sonic save Elise from Eggman and ultimately helping everyone end Solaris, now still remaining one of Sonic's most reliable allies.

So in conclusion, Shadow and Silver's hostilities had more layers to it and they were almost immediately rectified. But Eggman's universally done horrible things and has hurt people time and time again even when given chance after chance from Sonic, which therefore proves my belief that Sonic should learn that not everyone is deserving of second chances or freedom when they keep squandering it.

and yet Sonic always let's him go away without killing him since the 90s games, like i said, it is a flaw from Sonic's character, but it is still consistenly part of said character nonetheless, for us it may be obvious that not everyone deserves a second chance, but for Sonic that is just how he always has been

If his character is not like that.....then why is Eggman still alive during the Adventure and Classic eras? why didn't Sonic killed him yet? Black knight is the 1 out of character game where Sonic is ok in killing at first move, there really isn't any other example of him going against his "freedom for everyone, to be bad, to be good, if you use yours to make bad to other freedoms, i will use mine to stop you" if Sonic is all about full freedom, then him letting people be free to choose to be jerks makes sense for that mentality, and him using his to stop them also makes sense since he would be free to do so

 

[Eseseso]

I mean, Metal does seem to care for Eggman and is shown to be incredibly loyal because Eggman treats him relatively well.

 

[ShakeResounding]

i don't see much of a difference, Shadow still tried to do something that not even Eggman would have done, he was, by Sonic's perspective, far worse of a person than Eggman

Except Shadow has a legitimate excuse, considering his ideology was implemented outside of his control and his entire life he thought was real was in actuality a big fat lie. Also, even going by Sonic's perspective, Shadow's in no way worse than Eggman. Don't feed me that lie of "Eggman's never killed anybody", either,

on Silver? he may be less, but still tried to outright kill him multiple times, not much different from Eggman

A killing motivated by a sense of justice, AKA saving the entire planet from what Silver presumed to be the very threat that would cause its destruction. AKA just another case of somebody being manipulated, albeit Silver is just... stupidly gullible lol. This is the same guy who thought Sonic was a clone in Generations.

also.....isn't the fact that Sonic always lets Eggman live proof enough that he was always like this? why else would he had not killed him yet? Like, if Sonic doesn't believe is "full freedom to change-

Yeah Imma stop you there. Sonic not going out of his way to kill Eggman in the past does NOT immediately facilitate this faulty idea of "freedom is the chance to change" nonsense that's only appeared within the past two of a 32 year+ franchise from a particular individual. You don't know how writing works if this is how you rationalize it.

Destroying this model would still be beneficial, as this model in particular is showed to be dangerous enough to plot on his own, besides that Sonic said to him in the end that he could chalenge him again anytime, so the reason that it is given for him to not destroy him is purely because he likes to fight him, at least that is what it is implied

Beneficial for maybe five minutes.

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

and yet Sonic always let's him go away without killing him since the 90s games, like i said, it is a flaw from Sonic's character, but it is still consistenly part of said character nonetheless, for us it may be obvious that not everyone deserves a second chance, but for Sonic that is just how he always has been

If his character is not like that.....then why is Eggman still alive during the Adventure and Classic eras? why didn't Sonic killed him yet? Black knight is the 1 out of character game where Sonic is ok in killing at first move, there really isn't any other example of him going against his "freedom for everyone, to be bad, to be good, if you use yours to make bad to other freedoms, i will use mine to stop you" if Sonic is all about full freedom, then him letting people be free to choose to be jerks makes sense for that mentality, and him using his to stop them also makes sense since he would be free to do so

I...didn't suggest or imply that Sonic should kill Eggman, though? Like Sonic could easily put Eggman in like a max security prison, or take away his means of creating his contraptions and plotting his schemes, or maybe banish Eggman to some sort of alternate dimension where he'd have a hard time escaping from, or really ANYTHING is more preferable then just letting Eggman leave after he once again ruined another evil plan.

Listen: My belief is that Sonic doesn't need to discard his belief that people are deserving of freedom and chances, it's why Sonic is in my top ten favorite characters in fiction because of his compassion and ability to strive for freedom or help others learn, but rather understand that SOME can't be redeemed or deserve more chances of freedom such as the likes of Eggman. Sonic doesn't need to kill unless it's absolutely required like he did with King Arthur, he just needs to ensure that Eggman doesn't have the means of continuing to make the world miserable or conquer it or threatening to destroy it.

 

[ShakeResounding]

I'll give Sonic this, though; repeatedly handing a supergenius his ass on a silver platter regardless of how many times he's spent bettering his ways of trying to kill you is pretty impressive. Bumps up your cool points too.

 

[omegabronic]

Except Shadow has a legitimate excuse, considering his ideology was implemented outside of his control and his entire life he thought was real was in actuality a big fat lie. Also, even going by Sonic's perspective, Shadow's in no way worse than Eggman. Don't feed me that lie of "Eggman's never killed anybody", either,

and what about before he knew that origin? during all the battles they had before the final story Sonic never killed him, he was part of the "explode the moon and threaten the population with the same lazer" threat, and yet Sonic didn't killed him after he met him again after that

A killing motivated by a sense of justice, AKA saving the entire planet from what Silver presumed to be the very threat that would cause its destruction. AKA just another case of somebody being manipulated, albeit Silver is just... stupidly gullible lol. THis is the same guy who thought Sonic was a clone in Generations.

Said motivation he didn't get until later on? in which he still fought Silver multiple times before getting why he was doing what he did?

Yeah Imma stop you there. Sonic not going out of his way to kill Eggman in the past does NOT immediately facilitate this faulty idea of "freedom is the chance to change" nonsense that's only appeared within the past year of a 30 year+ franchise from a particular individual.

.....you can't ignore this dude, why else would he not kill Eggman? The reasoning given is in line with the "Freedom" aspect Sonic always had, it explains why Sonic never kills Eggman no matter what since the very begining of the franchise and it explains every single enemy turned ally he has ever had, if you will toss it aside, at least give some other reasonable explanation

Beneficial for maybe five minutes.

better make him rebuild something from scratch than let the model who learned from the experience get more experienced later on

 

[omegabronic]

I...didn't suggest or imply that Sonic should kill Eggman, though? Like Sonic could easily put Eggman in like a max security prison, or take away his means of creating his contraptions and plotting his schemes, or maybe banish Eggman to some sort of alternate dimension where he'd have a hard time escaping from, or really ANYTHING is more preferable then just letting Eggman leave after he once again ruined another evil plan.

substitute the word "killing" with "imprisoning" and the point stays the same, no matter what word one uses, it is a fact that Sonic always lets Eggman go no matter what he does in the past 30+ years this franchise exists

Listen: My belief is that Sonic doesn't need to discard his belief that people are deserving of freedom and chances, it's why Sonic is in my top ten favorite characters in fiction because of his compassion and ability to strive for freedom or help others learn, but rather understand that SOME can't be redeemed or deserve more chances of freedom such as the likes of Eggman. Sonic doesn't need to kill unless it's absolutely required like he did with King Arthur, he just needs to ensure that Eggman doesn't have the means of continuing to make the world miserable or conquer it or threatening to destroy it.

see, i also believe that, but i also see that he goes beyond even that to not put people in prison because of his "full freedom" mindset, hence why he never really arrested anyone really in ever

 

[ShakeResounding]

and what about before he knew that origin? during all the battles they had before the final story Sonic never killed him, he was part of the "explode the moon and threaten the population with the same lazer" threat, and yet Sonic didn't killed him after he met him again after that

If you think Sonic not being a merciless killer in somebody's first engagement with them somehow equates to the ideology of reforming your greatest villain with "Oh pretty please be a good boy, Eggman!" then I'm not sure what to tell you.

Said motivation he didn't get until later on? in which he still fought Silver multiple times before getting why he was doing what he did?

What does this prove? Sonic literally wanted to run from him every time because he was chasing Elise.

.....you can't ignore this dude, why else would he not kill Eggman? The reasoning given is in line with the "Freedom" aspect Sonic always had, it explains why Sonic never kills Eggman no matter what since the very begining of the franchise and it explains every single enemy turned ally he has ever had, if you will toss it aside, at least give some other reasonable explanation

No, actually, that's the incredible part. It doesn't need a reason, and that's how it was treated for about... hmmm... 25+ years or so before IDW.

better make him rebuild something from scratch than let the model who learned from the experience get more experienced later on

This is semantical and ultimately doesn't matter. Destroying Metal ultimately accomplishes nothing and Sonic knows that.

 

[Eseseso]

I think Sega kinda realized that they went too far with making Eggman vile in IDW, that's why they gave him Sage in Frontiers.

 

[Angelzewolf]

and what about before he knew that origin? during all the battles they had before the final story Sonic never killed him, he was part of the "explode the moon and threaten the population with the same lazer" threat, and yet Sonic didn't killed him after he met him again after that

Sonic, at no point in time, had any means of taking Shadow out. The first fight, Shadow randomly vanished. The second fight was halted because the island was literally about to blow up. And the third fight had Sonic trying out for the basketball team. The only time (and not really tbh) he was able to talk to Shadow was in the Last Story against the biolizard in which Shadow immediately showed he wanted to help them.

Shadow isn't comparable, at all, to Eggman.

Said motivation he didn't get until later on? in which he still fought Silver multiple times before getting why he was doing what he did?

Same issue as Shadow. Sonic got cooked in virtually every way possible (I'm actually pretty sure Silver mentioned his motivation in their first confrontation?). Every time he had "the chance" to end Silver, he instead had to go rescue Elise. It is 1:1 the same situation as Shadow. Sonic was in a constant rush whenever he encountered Silver. And then Silver suddenly shows up and wants to help him.

Both times. Shadow and Silver proved to be threats. Sonic, even if he wanted to, had no opportunity to permanently put them down. Then they suddenly appear to help him when it matters the most (at the given time). So... Sonic forgives and moves on.

 

[Eseseso]

I do love how, while Sonic forgives Eggman, he utterly HATES Starline.

To quote TV Tropes:

Even after having his sense of forgiveness tested greatly throughout the comics' run, Sonic maintains some degree of moral code against even his most despised enemies. Doctor Starline, however, having remorselessly restored Eggman and caused the chain reaction that started the Metal Virus plague, is vocally and utterly exempt to any sympathy from Sonic, with him even coldly shrugging off both of Starline's apparent demises (the second one real). To punctuate this, even Tails and Belle, who hate Starline equally and have a more grounded All-Loving Hero code, couldn't help feeling a bit of pity for him upon his death.

 

[JED]

Sonic, at no point in time, had any means of taking Shadow out. The first fight, Shadow randomly vanished. The second fight was halted because the island was literally about to blow up. And the third fight had Sonic trying out for the basketball team. The only time (and not really tbh) he was able to talk to Shadow was in the Last Story against the biolizard in which Shadow immediately showed he wanted to help them.

Shadow isn't comparable, at all, to Eggman.



Same issue as Shadow. Sonic got cooked in virtually every way possible (I'm actually pretty sure Silver mentioned his motivation in their first confrontation?). Every time he had "the chance" to end Silver, he instead had to go rescue Elise. It is 1:1 the same situation as Shadow. Sonic was in a constant rush whenever he encountered Silver. And then Silver suddenly shows up and wants to help him.

Both times. Shadow and Silver proved to be threats. Sonic, even if he wanted to, had no opportunity to permanently put them down. Then they suddenly appear to help him when it matters the most (at the given time). So... Sonic forgives and moves on.

Agree for the most part but tbh Sonic just instantly trusting Silver and not even questioning it didn’t sit too well with me either tbh

 

[JED]

I think Sega kinda realized that they went too far with making Eggman vile in IDW, that's why they gave him Sage in Frontiers.

Probably. But tbh merciless Eggman has its place (see SA1 and 2).

 

[MysticMania]

My version of Sonic is different in some ways, from the original.
Like, for me, I fully feel that my version of his personality, his being, would wholeheartedly condone the arson of the houses of government figures, or something of that sort. SEGA's version is one geared for children specifically, and, always has been.
So, that's just a difference for me.

 

[MysticMania]

I do love how, while Sonic forgives Eggman, he utterly HATES Starline.

I genuinely really like this.

 

[omegabronic]

If you think Sonic not being a merciless killer in somebody's first engagement with them somehow equates to the ideology of reforming your greatest villain with "Oh pretty please be a good boy, Eggman!" then I'm not sure what to tell you.

What does this prove? Sonic literally wanted to run from him every time because he was chasing Elise.

agree to disagree on both of those then

No, actually, that's the incredible part. It doesn't need a reason, and that's how it was treated for about... hmmm... 25+ years or so before IDW.

then the problem of Sonic being an "idiot" is even more prominent since he is letting the world ender maniac go without any reason whatsoever, no moral, no personality reason, he is just letting him go just "because why not?", i personally find that boring and worse than giving him a reason that alligns with his "freedom" motif he always had

This is semantical and ultimately doesn't matter. Destroying Metal ultimately accomplishes nothing and Sonic knows that.

i mean.....that is not the reason he didn't destroyed him in Heroes, by his own word he didn't do it because "you can chalenge me any other time".....huh, Sonic was always a bit of Goku huh? honestly pretty nice

 

[Eseseso]

I genuinely really like this.

I even read that Starline would be a Complete Monster...if he didn't idolize Eggman to such extreme levels. Even after backstabbing Eggman, he still wants Eggman to serve at his side and tries to talk him into an alliance.

He is heinous enough, though.

Also, some people point out that the reason Eggman beat Starline is that: Starline believes in perfect plans that cannot be beaten, and if they actually fail he loses his cool (like against Eggman), meanwhile Eggman believes that, if you lose, you adapt and evolve your plans.

There's a reason Eggman is a Magnificent Bastard in so many games,

 

[ShakeResounding]

My version of Sonic is different in some ways, from the original.
Like, for me, I fully feel that my version of his personality, his being, would wholeheartedly condone the arson of the houses of government figures, or something of that sort.

Sonic the Socialist

then the problem of Sonic being an "idiot" is even more prominent since he is letting the world ender maniac go without any reason whatsoever, no moral, no personality reason, he is just letting him go just "because why not?", i personally find that boring and worse than giving him a reason that alligns with his "freedom" motif he always had

I would agree with this if he didn't have the skills to back it up

i mean.....that is not the reason he didn't destroyed him in Heroes, by his own word he didn't do it because "you can chalenge me any other time".....huh, Sonic was always a bit of Goku huh? honestly pretty nice

Of course, Sonic rejoices in handing Metal his shiny blue ass. Bro is an elite JOBBER

 

[omegabronic]

I even read that Starline would be a Complete Monster...if he didn't idolize Eggman to such extreme levels. Even after backstabbing Eggman, he still wants Eggman to serve at his side and tries to talk him into an alliance.

He is heinous enough, though.

Also, some people point out that the reason Eggman beat Starline is that: Starline believes in perfect plans that cannot be beaten, and if they actually fail he loses his cool (like against Eggman), meanwhile Eggman believes that, if you lose, you adapt and evolve your plans.

There's a reason Eggman is a Magnificent Bastard in so many games,

That is the beauty of Eggman's villany, he is like Sonic, the same willpower gone the other side, just like how Sonic never doubts himself and goes on, neither does Eggman, if he fails, he simply improves and tries again, he is the mirror to Sonic after all, similar is so many ways, yet indisputably different where it matters

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

I do love how, while Sonic forgives Eggman, he utterly HATES Starline.

To quote TV Tropes:

Even after having his sense of forgiveness tested greatly throughout the comics' run, Sonic maintains some degree of moral code against even his most despised enemies. Doctor Starline, however, having remorselessly restored Eggman and caused the chain reaction that started the Metal Virus plague, is vocally and utterly exempt to any sympathy from Sonic, with him even coldly shrugging off both of Starline's apparent demises (the second one real). To punctuate this, even Tails and Belle, who hate Starline equally and have a more grounded All-Loving Hero code, couldn't help feeling a bit of pity for him upon his death.

That's something which perplexes me a little from a story perspective.

Yes, Starline is a bastard and he did start the chain reaction which lead to the Metal Virus Plague, but is Sonic forgetting the small little factoid that Eggman was the creator of the Metal Virus itself which he had planned on unleashing in the chance he failed to conquer the world in Forces? It seems that Sonic would be unforgiving and sympathetic to Starline, but doesn't do something similar when he should know Eggman was the one who ultimately created and unleashed the virus without remorse.

Though then again...I think Starline experimenting on living organisms and brainwashing them like he did with Surge and Kit does significantly increase Starline's placement on the "being a piece of shit" totem pole

 

[Eseseso]

That's something which perplexes me a little from a story perspective.

Yes, Starline is a bastard and he did start the chain reaction which lead to the Metal Virus Plague, but is Sonic forgetting the small little factoid that Eggman was the creator of the Metal Virus itself which he had planned on unleashing in the chance he failed to conquer the world in Forces? It seems that Sonic would be unforgiving and sympathetic to Starline, but doesn't do something similar when he should know Eggman was the one who ultimately created and unleashed the virus without remorse.

Though then again...I think Starline experimenting on living organisms and brainwashing them like he did with Surge and Kit does significantly increase Starline's placement on the "being a piece of shit" totem pole

Yeah Starline's experimentation is a big factor in why he's heinous enough, especially since we see how badly he traumatized Surge and Kit.

 

[ShakeResounding]

It seems that Sonic would be unforgiving and sympathetic to Starline, but doesn't do something similar when he should know Eggman was the one who ultimately created and unleashed the virus without remorse.

I don't think you guys nor Amy would like to hear my theory

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

@ShakeResounding Ooh, that sounds ominous and could lead to a lot of controversy.....please do tell us your theory and be proud, embrace becoming an agent of chaos and madness

 

[ShakeResounding]

Dr. Eggman is Sonic's bastard mistress so he has free reign to do anything he pleases

 

[MysticMania]

so starline is free