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Ngl, Vs debating and the world at large would be an objectively better place if this was enforced.
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Sonic General Discussion Zone Act 1: New Frontiers
- Thread starter Maverick_Zero_X
- Start date
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Yeah, looking at the movement the back robot made in the same time as the spindash, it seems like the spindash is a lot lower than 54x, more like 8-11x just from my crude math.
ShakeResounding
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Mfw JJ thinks his math is more accurate because it's him doing it
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I'm not saying my math is right, I'm fully aware it's probably wrong, but I still think the original calc is flawed. I think it should be recalculated but using the movement of one of the robots in the back, as it actually does definitively move on its own volition in the same timeframe Sonic is doing his spin dash. I'm actually making a CRT right now to talk about it.
ShakeResounding
He/Him- 8,785
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Bruh, don't. There's 4 ******* Sonic CRTs going on at the same time already, we shouldn't have even passed 3.
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Well I was gonna talk about it in the damage scaling one, but that one is more focused on the strength amps. So I wasn't sure where to put it.
ShakeResounding
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It's own thread is the right idea, especially since the calc is technically a lowball, but pull the brakes. We don't need anymore active CRTs right now, the guideline is popular verses should cap at 3.
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fire force:5?
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JJ, you are aware my calc is an extreme lowball, right?
1. It doesn't use the full distance Sonic covered
2. If you TRULY think that robot carried Sonic's momentum, then the true multiplier would be TENS of times higher because despite carrying a PORTION of Sonic's momentum it still barely moved any distance compared to Sonic.
Using the back one makes no sense as that's around when Sonic FINISHES his movement.
1. It doesn't use the full distance Sonic covered
2. If you TRULY think that robot carried Sonic's momentum, then the true multiplier would be TENS of times higher because despite carrying a PORTION of Sonic's momentum it still barely moved any distance compared to Sonic.
Using the back one makes no sense as that's around when Sonic FINISHES his movement.
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Come on dude, wank it more, make it a 1000x multiplier, i dare ya you handsome devil
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Would I ironically be possible under JJ's belief. As it would mean they would have moved significantly slower if not for carrying a portion of Sonic's momentum.Come on dude, wank it more, make it a 1000x multiplier, i dare ya you handsome devil
But if I'm being genuine, if I calc'd the actual full distance, I can only imagine getting maybe a bit over a 70x increase.
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I don’t understand what you mean, I’m saying the robot didn’t move at all on its own and it was purely Sonic’s momentum moving it unless there’s proof otherwise, so you can’t really compare that robot’s speed to the spin dash. Especially when we actually see another robot who moves far more in comparison in the same timeframe as the spindash, and was definitively moving on its own during the spindash unlike the robot you used for comparison.
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The problem is if you believe the robot was carrying a portion of Sonic's momentum, it would be moving faster than they are capable of moving by themselves. It would then be fine to use them for scaling. If you believe the robot is moving SLOWER than when it moves of its own will, then it could still be used as it would be at least carrying speed equal if not faster than Sonic before the Spin-Dash. Which is good as we'd be getting how many times faster Sonic is moving compared to his base speed (which is fine considering the Eggforcers > Base Sonic in speed).
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Yes, but the calc hinges on how far the robots move on their own compared to the spin dash, so if the robot meant to represent how fast no spindash Sonic can move on his own, isn’t moving on its own in the clip, then there’s no reference to compare the spindash to. And it’s not like there isn’t a frame of reference, since near the back we see a robot make it a little bit down the steps while Sonic is spindashing and before it gets hit.
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If they didn't move at all we can assume the speed of a snail, that is the norm for time slow calcs
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The robot in question didn’t even try to move though, it was standing still. And it can’t be snail speed because we see another robot who is clearly moving a significant distance while Sonic is spindashing, in the back.
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I just watched the clip again. And honestly? I'm even more certain of my method. The robot in the back is harder to pixel scale as its in the background, but the distance it moves in slow no is EVEN SMALLER than what I calc'd for the robot up front. It only got faster after Sonic hit it. Because again, the robots move faster then they move on their own when hit by Sonic Spin-Dashing. This is why I said my calc was a lowball. Because the actual speed would be SEVERAL times greater if we could get their speed when hit by Sonic instead of assuming at least Sonic's speed.
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I’m not talking about it moving in slow mo, I’m talking about the back robot on the right side of the stairs moving down the steps while Sonic is spindashing.
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Ohhh. It does move more. The issue? It's BEFORE the slow-mo kicks in. I'm measuring the distance they move in slow-mo which only starts after Sonic hits the first robot. In which the distance the flying robot moves on the right is significantly less. I can calc it using him, but the result would actually only be higher since before he's hit by Sonic his momentum is actually far slower (as in, he doesn't even visibly move at all while in one frame Sonic reaches him).
Measuring the speed before slow-mo wouldn't make sense as that is when we see the amp kick in.
Measuring the speed before slow-mo wouldn't make sense as that is when we see the amp kick in.
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Couldn’t the slow mo be argued as just a cinematic thing? The spindash is already noticeably faster than the robots without the slow mo.
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No, not really. Considering Sonic still moves at the same speed, and immediately after hitting all of them into slow-mo, we get the sped up version of the feat. Not to mention in several of the instances it's used, the robots are perceived in slow-mo while the user themself is not. It's quite clear to anyone watching that its mean to show the disparity in speed between the two
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Still, I might feel better at least having an end that compares the pre-slow mo robot speed I highlighted to the spindash speed.
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I mean I guess if it makes you feel better you can make a low-end that uses pre slow-mo. I personally don't see the point in it though when the slow-mo's whole purpose is to show us how ridiculously fast Sonic is moving compared to them. It's not unusual for the slow-mo to not kick in right away. Like if this is the case, we should compare Movie Sonic's speed to the bullets and missiles before they enter slow-mo because its just "cinematic timing".
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You aren't allowed to calc multipliers.
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I guess my sticking point is just, if it’s calcing how much the robot moves on its own, I’d prefer it to be definitive the robot was moving on its own and not pushed at all, which is something the movie version does by just having the missiles halt without Sonic touching them.
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Yeah you are. Whether they can be accepted or not is a different story tho.
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It does move by itself in slow-mo. It's just that before Sonic hits it, the movement is so slow, they don't even move a single pixel worth of distance, whereas Sonic covers several meters.
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But the slow mo for the robot only starts after Sonic hits it to begin with.
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It starts after he hits the first robot. Not the on you're talking about. Even if it did, we could calc the movements of the ones hit after it in slow-mo as the ones behind them were moving too
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Yes you are, there needs to be a statement of it being an amp first sure, but nothing stops a calculation of multipliers, in fact, that is what exactly what multiplier stacking is, and we do that a lot here
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I can tell it doesn’t have a universal effect after hitting the first robot, because the robot I pointed out in the images is not moving in slow mo after hitting the first robot, and continued moving at the same speed.
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Ill run it through a frame by frame player, pretty sure the effect universally comes into affect after 1 or 2 hits.
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Okay, if it can be proven that the robots do move on their own in the slow motion and that the slow mo kicked in after the first robot then I’ll be satisfied.
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The ****?
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Yeah; that’s exactly what Mega Man’s speed Gear multiplier is, which is accepted.
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Like, all the page says is that multipliers must come from statements, the spin dash comes from a statement, we always knew that it was an amp in speed, all we did was calc how much of an amp it is, which the page says nothing against at all
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Sonic's fighting style was stated to be a good balance between power speed etc. It looks like that's consistent as Sonic's default style in Black Knight (Knight) yields a similar description
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Wdym?
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