Sonic fights Death himself

[Genericstickman]

in Dark Mobius Dark E

 

[Genericstickman]

nerjak was able to beat and capture sonic

 

[Oblivion_Lightning]

That was an alternate version of Sonic who's far weaker because Prime Sonic is actually the strongest Sonic and the only Sonic we know that has the OBPR is Prime Sonic.Dark Mobius Sonic obviously doesn't have Fatehax.

 

[NotAMarioFan(lol)]

Death FRA

 

[ShakeResounding]

You must not have been paying attention to this thread

 

[Bobsican]

Anyways, voting for Sonic FRA.

 

[Theuser789]

Sonic FRA

 

[Foneybone1]

Sonic isn't resisting mind hax from Enerjak in that scan, the ring aura's protecting him from Finitivus' hex. It also didn't negate the hex, it only protected himself from it, the Master Emerald and Knuckles were still hexed.

I'm also fairly certain Enerjak only took over regular Knuckles with Finitivus comparing the power to Chaos Knuckles. In any case Finitivus already had control of Knuckles in base if he did become Chaos Knuckles. Regardless, it was only because of Finitivus' hex that allowed Enerjak to take over, it took him years to corrupt Chaos Knuckles on Dark Mobius and he didn't take full control until Knuckles let him.

It's also not his ring aura that's affecting Knuckles Enerjak, it's the possitive aspect of him being Super Sonic.

 

[Thatsafloridathing]

Sonic FRA

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

Hmmm

 

[Jonrigade]

Death FRA

 

[Oblivion_Lightning]

Sonic isn't resisting mind hax from Enerjak in that scan, the ring aura's protecting him from Finitivus' hex. It also didn't negate the hex, it only protected himself from it, the Master Emerald and Knuckles were still hexed.

I'm also fairly certain Enerjak only took over regular Knuckles with Finitivus comparing the power to Chaos Knuckles. In any case Finitivus already had control of Knuckles in base if he did become Chaos Knuckles. Regardless, it was only because of Finitivus' hex that allowed Enerjak to take over, it took him years to corrupt Chaos Knuckles on Dark Mobius and he didn't take full control until Knuckles let him.

It's also not his ring aura that's affecting Knuckles Enerjak, it's the possitive aspect of him being Super Sonic.

>Ok?.....like you said the Ring protects Sonic from the mind hax thus Sonic resists it due to the protection the ring grants him.It negating the hex doesn't matter here,what matters is Sonic is protected from it.

>Wrong,Finitivus says "you've had this power before" clearly stating that it's Chaos Knuckles's power not just Base Knuckles.Again what your saying is irrelevant as the hex allowed Enerjak to take over Knuckles whom had Chaos Knuckles's power which is 2-A.Knuckles accepted Enerjak when Finitivus tells him to be more than a guardian and gain the power of the gods and even acknowledges Enerjak's name.

>I included that to prove Sonic's passives work on a 2-A scale

>Also I'm gonna day this polite as possible but I told you in the past that if you believe these abilities to be incorrect and fake make a CRT on it so it can be debated there.Also we go by what the profiles say and this downplay of abilities and denial of them won't work without actual revisions made to the profile.

 

[Oblivion_Lightning]

Also Sonic FRA

But I do think we hit Incon grace like yesterday

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

Foney make the BONES pages already smh

 

[GlaceonGamez471]

Sonic FRA

 

[Genericstickman]

I mean grace for Incon has ended

 

[Inverted_Tempest]

Then this should be asked to be added to the versus thread additions

 

[Foneybone1]

Unlike Dark Enerjak, it's never clarified to us that he was Chaos Knuckles prior. The power they weild is virtually the same, Finitivus drawing a parallel between the virtual omnipotence of Chaos Knuckles and Enerjak doesn't definitively mean he was Chaos Knuckles. (this also begs the question, if he was Chaos Knuckles why would he need Enerjak? We don't see a substantial power increase) Regardless, Finitivus took over base Knuckles, as soon as he tapped into the Master Emerald's power, he fell to the hex.

There isn't a precident that being more powerful improves their resistance to mind hax. Finitivus still had control after Knuckles became Enerjak, even if he was Chaos Knuckles, there's no reason Finitivus wouldn't still have control. Furthermore, Enerjak taking over Knuckles is not impressive since, due to the hex, he actively let him do it. Sonic's mind was altered by Cal and a weakened Mogul put a mind control mark on Turbo Tails, who's is stronger than Super Sonic.

I shouldn't have to create a CRT just to correct you on things that aren't listed on Sonic's profile like the ring aura protecting Sonic from being killed.

 

[Jonrigade]

That's a version of Prime Sonic, meaning Enerjak could bypass the Fate Manipulation. Light Mobius and Dark Mobius are both futures for Mobius Prime and still fall under it. That being said, Super Sonic only beat Enerjak because Locke sacrificed himself to free Knuckles of Finitevus's hex. Dark Mobius has Enerjak winning their confrontation and has Sonic having his prelate stolen from him. It's the same Sonic and it details the fight pretty much had Locke not intervened like that. Mephiles also was able to put Sonic in a stasis of death because the events of Sonic 06 are canon to the Archie Comics. He survived because of his Immortality technically, aren't I correct? That's cute when Death can negate Immortality Type 8. Putting Sonic down really isn't that hard as people keep saying it is. Death can incapacitate him with all of the options listed above. Sonic nullified hax from a 2-A destructive potency, not from an effectiveness lets make that clear. Name one moment where the Master Emerald would otherwise do something like Death Manipulation to affect the infinite multiverse of people so that he can resist Death's version. Lol, Death completely murders Sonic.

 

[ElixirBlue]

That's a version of Prime Sonic, meaning Enerjak could bypass the Fate Manipulation. Light Mobius and Dark Mobius are both futures for Mobius Prime and still fall under it.

This is another future timeline of Prime Sonic and Eggman killed him. The FateHax only applies to the main timeline Prime Sonic.

 

[Jonrigade]

Are you saying that just because there's another instance where he was killed that it suddenly means that only a specific alternate timeline should have Fate Manipulation? When was that ever stated? The point was that the other person had claimed that it was an inferior Sonic. That wasn't the case is what I proved. You're adding more material to prove the point that was made and birthed a headcanon, that's nice.

 

[ElixirBlue]

What do you mean by "only a specific alternate timeline should have Fate Manipulation"? That's not what I said.

 

[Foneybone1]

He's saying potential futures of the prime zone would have the same past (until a point obviously) meaning Sonic should have the ring aura in all of them.

 

[ElixirBlue]

Depends. Where does Light and Dark Mobius branch off? That Future I just shown with scans branched off before the 1 Billionth Ring. Where(when) did Dark Mobius branched off?

 

[Foneybone1]

Light Mobius is the same up until at least 125 and changes somewhere before 184. I'm not 100% sure on the placement of Dark Mobius but it should take place after 89 since that's when Knuckles first became Chaos Knuckles, there are probably statments in one of the two stories to beter place it but it's midnight 30 so I'm not about to read through them.

 

[ElixirBlue]

Except Chaos Knuckles was something made from his birth and the Dark Legion(which would've been mention in this conversation) would've come into Prime Mobius whether or not Sonic got the 1 Billionth Ring.

The 1 Billionth ring doesn't change the fact Chaos Knuckles appears or the appearance of the Dark Legion.

Good night, perhaps see ya in the morning. Also, sorry I forgot to respond on the Titan Tails thread.

 

[Eganergo]

Hm, Sonic FRA!

 

[Jonrigade]

I assumed you knew that there was branching timelines for Mobius Prime in later issues. And the point ever was of Chaos Knuckles emerging or not, he's saying the differences started happening there. The main difference is of who won between Super Sonic and Enerjak in their fight. Enerjak was triumphant in a future where Locke's intervention didn't happen, because Sonic technically wasn't even the one who beat Enerjak in the first place. They come after Sonic gets his OBPR, and you selectively picked an example while ignoring my point on Mephiles. You're incorrect on this front as Foney and I have explained. It doesn't help the Magic Negation was never replied to either and people keep playing dodgy with it. Was it ever even touched on how Sonic would bypass the Regenerationn other than just people saying they would null Death's hax? If not, any vote for Sonic needs to be straight up not counted.

 

[Oblivion_Lightning]

Unlike Dark Enerjak, it's never clarified to us that he was Chaos Knuckles prior. The power they weild is virtually the same, Finitivus drawing a parallel between the virtual omnipotence of Chaos Knuckles and Enerjak doesn't definitively mean he was Chaos Knuckles. (this also begs the question, if he was Chaos Knuckles why would he need Enerjak? We don't see a substantial power increase) Regardless, Finitivus took over base Knuckles, as soon as he tapped into the Master Emerald's power, he fell to the hex.

There isn't a precident that being more powerful improves their resistance to mind hax. Finitivus still had control after Knuckles became Enerjak, even if he was Chaos Knuckles, there's no reason Finitivus wouldn't still have control. Furthermore, Enerjak taking over Knuckles is not impressive since, due to the hex, he actively let him do it. Sonic's mind was altered by Cal and a weakened Mogul put a mind control mark on Turbo Tails, who's is stronger than Super Sonic.

I shouldn't have to create a CRT just to correct you on things that aren't listed on Sonic's profile like the ring aura protecting Sonic from being killed.

>Except that it absolutely does.DR Fin notes it's the same power that Knuckles had before and even notes that Dimitri told him the Knuckles couldn't control it.Saying it's not Chaos Knuckles's power is absurd.He needed Enerjak because Enerjak had the will and goal that Finitivus wanted,it's clear as day when Enerjak goes down to Finitivus and asked for more power because he wants to finish his work which Finitivus desires,Knuckles wouldn't have done the things Enerjak had done obviously.Again wrong look at the scan...the moment Knuckles becomes Enerjak is when he had the power that he couldn't control.Hell Knuckles is still talking to Finitivus answering him that Enerjak had the power of gods if this was Enerjak at that point why would Enerjak be refering to himself in that way?It would make no sense from a contextual level to say Enerjak was responding to him. https://i.imgur.com/4PGy7Wk.jpg

>You just contradicted yourself on the fact that power doesn't determine the level of resistance with Mindhax resistance when you brought up Turbo Tails being superior to Super Sonic which doesn't even apply here because Merlin refered to Super Sonic and Hyper Knuckles powered by Chaos Emeralds not the Master Emerald.The Master Emerald was stated in the Encyclopedia to have power beyond the Chaos Emeralds and we even see that the Master Emerald granted Knuckles Chaos Knuckles in power as opposed to the Chaos emeralds which grants Hyper Knuckles.Master Emerald > Chaos Emeralds.Odd how Mogul put mind control tags on Tails and Sonic's freinds when in prison but he never did it to Sonic....it's like he knew it wouldn't work also Al and Cal were able to control Sonic and Tails because they were in their zone whcih they have complete control of also that would just mean their mindhax can bypass Sonic's resistance.Also Knuckles got mindhaxed by the Master Emerald when Sonic didn't that's blatant resistance and he even said he neutralized the hex.Also yes the hex did effect Knuckles's mind as the Ant guy (forgot his name) said his mind was scrambled by the hex which didn't work on Sonic.

>Except you're not correcting me as I and other knowledgeable memebers like Shake Resounding,Shadow Warrior Maverick Zero and Theuser disagree and have arguments against those notions of Sonic's fatehax.In order to change them you need to make a CRT to address it and have it be debated that's how the site works.

 

[Oblivion_Lightning]

That's a version of Prime Sonic, meaning Enerjak could bypass the Fate Manipulation. Light Mobius and Dark Mobius are both futures for Mobius Prime and still fall under it. That being said, Super Sonic only beat Enerjak because Locke sacrificed himself to free Knuckles of Finitevus's hex. Dark Mobius has Enerjak winning their confrontation and has Sonic having his prelate stolen from him. It's the same Sonic and it details the fight pretty much had Locke not intervened like that. Mephiles also was able to put Sonic in a stasis of death because the events of Sonic 06 are canon to the Archie Comics. He survived because of his Immortality technically, aren't I correct? That's cute when Death can negate Immortality Type 8. Putting Sonic down really isn't that hard as people keep saying it is. Death can incapacitate him with all of the options listed above. Sonic nullified hax from a 2-A destructive potency, not from an effectiveness lets make that clear. Name one moment where the Master Emerald would otherwise do something like Death Manipulation to affect the infinite multiverse of people so that he can resist Death's version. Lol, Death completely murders Sonic.

>That's not how that works at all...there's only one Prime Sonic in the multiverse as Zonic stated.You would need proof that Dark Mobius Sonic gained the OBPR since it's an alternate and different version of Prime Sonic.No Super Sonic was toying around with Enerjak and Enerjak even said that he couldn't destroy Super Sonic yes Locke did ultimately caused Enerjak to go away but Enerjak had no indication that he was beating Prime Super Sonic the literal chosen hero of the Mutliverse as opposed to an alternate version of Sonic who lost.

>No...a preestablished story that contradicts info has no prevelance towards Archie Sonic and it's abilities.Also we don't even know how Sonic was killed and he easily could have just came back via the OBPR because Sonic was still alive afterwards and even then Elise states that he can still feel Sonic's presence if we're going by the canonity of 06.Again not enough context on his death.Also what's stopping Sonic from using a power ring and nulling Death down to nothing?

>The null turned a 2-A back into a Low 2-C and stripped his abilities so yes Death's abilities would be gone.

 

[Oblivion_Lightning]

Also this is being added as incon and a huge Archie Sonic debate here is uncessary.Again make a CRT or a thread so it can be discussed just not here on an already concluded thread.

 

[Jonrigade]

Lol, you guys keep withholding the truth from the threadgoers so that Sonic is voted. Jani-Ca came from a future point in time because she thought Remington killed Knuckles because that's what Julie-Su told her. That alone shows they share the same timeline unless by your logic, you might as well think Silver wouldn't be from later in down the timeline as well. And yet you admit as well that it's still a version of Prime Sonic. The split in the timeline occured long after Sonic got his OBPR. YOU would need to prove why they version of Sonic wouldn't have it. Super Sonic was toying around with Enerjak to bring Knuckles out of the control. Enerjak was depleted even beforehand. There is a clear indication he could beat Sonic, that's why Dark Mobius even exists lol.

Yes it does, it takes place in its continuity, which is why they have pages to begin with. You're implying large aspects of the plot should change just because they don't mesh will with your view of abilities. Guess what, it just means your view isn't the objective one. Sonic survived because of an Immortality. Now that I think about it as well, Sonic was conked out unconscious in the scan if I recall correctly even even when his spiritual essence was restored. That would give Death a very easy opening to use his win conditions aside from just Sonic's Fate Manipulation being not as good as people wank it to be.

Even if I were to steelman and say that this is a possibly correct notion that he'd manage to make that work on Death when I already explained why the null won't work, can you show it would strip Death of his Regenerationn? Sonic can't bypass it otherwise because stripping someone of offensive abilities is different from inherent physiology. Death goes Incon with Sonic at worst, he's more likely to get a win here.

 

[ElixirBlue]

Lol, you guys keep withholding the truth from the threadgoers so that Sonic is voted. Jani-Ca came from a future point in time because she thought Remington killed Knuckles because that's what Julie-Su told her. That alone shows they share the same timeline unless by your logic, you might as well think Silver wouldn't be from later in down the timeline as well.

___________________________________________

And yet you admit as well that it's still a version of Prime Sonic. The split in the timeline occured long after Sonic got his OBPR.

Show proof that the timeline split happened after Sonic got the 1 Billionth Ring.

YOU would need to prove why they version of Sonic wouldn't have it. Super Sonic was toying around with Enerjak to bring Knuckles out of the control. Enerjak was depleted even beforehand. There is a clear indication he could beat Sonic, that's why Dark Mobius even exists lol.

Except Dark Mobius existed over 100 issues before Silver took a warp ring to another alternative future.

 

[ElixirBlue]

Lol, you guys keep withholding the truth from the threadgoers so that Sonic is voted. Jani-Ca came from a future point in time because she thought Remington killed Knuckles because that's what Julie-Su told her. That alone shows they share the same timeline unless by your logic, you might as well think Silver wouldn't be from later in down the timeline as well.

Um... because Silver isn't from down the timeline of Dark Mobius.

 

[Jonrigade]

Lmao, you decided to keep the context from the threadgoers again. Man, how has this not been caught? He got the One Billionth Power Ring in Issue 35 (https://sonic.fandom.com/wiki/One_Billionth_Power_Ring) and the timeline split began to change around Issue 80 which you literally pulled the scan from. So yes it becomes an alternate reality because of her interference, that's literally the definition of an alternate reality. And I never said it didn't exist beforehand, that's irrelevant to the point. I also didn't say Silver is from the Dark Mobius timeline, I said you might as well not think he's from later on in a possible future if you really think Dark Mobius isn't a future version of Mobius Prime, the logic is erroneous. Please stop strawmanning me.

 

[Oblivion_Lightning]

>Dark Mobius Sonic just got trumped by Dark Enerjak he never died.The encyclopedia even states that Dark Enerjak took their essence and turned them into cores which made his prelates.

>The encyclopedia even calls Dark Mobius "another timeline".

>Tge Ancient Walkers exist outside time and space so there's no alternate versions of them to hand out OBPR's to the alternate versions of Sonic.The encyclopedia also says they rarely intervene with affairs which contradicts the idea of the Ancient Walker's granting Sonic's their own OBPR across all the other timelines.

>Prime Sonic the chosen hero of the multiverse would also make the most sense have it as it's his destiny to become the most pivotal hero of all time and space.

>Yeah Enerjak was depleted but you forget Sonic gets powered by the same thing to the same extent as Enerjak did by the Master Emerald.Even then Sonic was toying and ultimately wasn't going all out because remember he didn't want to kill Knuckles and just was holding him back so his positive aura would restore Knuckles.So yes they are equal in terms of power.

>A pre established story for a completely different Sonic having prevalence over an already established Sonic and his abilities is a big no.Also we have next to no context on how Sonic died he very well could have came back seconds later by the OBPR which is what grants him his Fatehax which allows him to never lose as Mogul said.You also never addressed the fact that this already established story has prevalence over Archie then Archie should have prevelance over the game version which makes Game Solaris and Game Illumina 2-A you can't say it won't apply to game when your interpretation directly applies to Archie apparently "contradicting" info.Not to mention evidence shown in the comics is far more solid than an added pre established story in an encyclopedia that contradicts info.

>Also your blatantly downplaying Sonic and his abilities deceiving thread goers.See how easy it is to say something from our own perspective? I would recommend cutting it out with this wanking crap.

 

[Oblivion_Lightning]

Lmao, you decided to keep the context from the threadgoers again. Man, how has this not been caught? He got the One Billionth Power Ring in Issue 35 (https://sonic.fandom.com/wiki/One_Billionth_Power_Ring) and the timeline split began to change around Issue 80 which you literally pulled the scan from. So yes it becomes an alternate reality because of her interference, that's literally the definition of an alternate reality. And I never said it didn't exist beforehand, that's irrelevant to the point. I also didn't say Silver is from the Dark Mobius timeline, I said you might as well not think he's from later on in a possible future if you really think Dark Mobius isn't a future version of Mobius Prime, the logic is erroneous. Please stop strawmanning me.

>Your additude needs to stop just because it's from your perspective and you think it's the truth doesn't make you right.Cut it out now.

>The encyclopedia states Dark Mobius is in another timeline not a diverging one it's a completely different zone.

>Again I explained that alternate versions of the AW's granting the OBPR to alternate versions of Sonic would contradict the fact that they exist outside time and space and that they rarely interfere with affairs bar the only few times we see than as stated in the encyclopedia.

 

[Neon_Battle_Bind]

I just read through the whole Sonic hax discussion and I heavily agree with Oblivion and Elixir their rebukes are making the most sense here.

Also incon FRA if it's not too late.

 

[Genericstickman]

I mean grace ended for Incon

 

[Foneybone1]

Both Enerjak and Chaos Knuckles have virtual omnipotence, Knuckles couldn't control it before, that's what Finitivus is talking about. Gala-Na also compares Chaos Knuckles to Enerjak, does that mean Knuckles was Enerjak in issue 90? Comparing their appearance/powerset doesn't mean he is Chaos Knuckles. Do you not know how the hex works? It gives Finitivus control of Knuckles, Enerjak's goals and ambitions are meaningless, Knuckles responding is meaningless since he was already under his control. I'm not saying Knuckles became Enerjak the moment he touched the emerald, I'm telling you what the comic says, that Finitivus took control once he did and Knuckles became Enerjak. Whether or not he was Chaos Knuckles is interpretation.

How is me saying Turbo Tails is stronger than Super Sonic a contradiction, that was my point? Knuckles didn't use the Master Emerald to become Chaos Knuckles in issue 89, and when he actually does use the Master Emerald in 141 he goes hyper, you're just making stuff up. Reading the comic shows Mogul didn't tag Tails, Mina, and Mightly while in prison, he had already tagged them and activated them while in prison, which is all he could due since he was weakened.

I'm not super keen on Sonic winning matches based on fabricated nonsense. I'm not going to rush to make a CRT every time you make something up, the forum would be flooded, I should be allowed to correct you when you're wrong. Either way, I did make a CRT about the fate hax with only Ed Infinitum providing arguments that where refuted.