Sonic fights Death himself

[ElixirBlue]

Archie Sonic remembered pre-Genesis history and what happen in worlds Collide at the same time without needing to touch Nicole. Just like he did after the first Genesis wave. And manipulating memories is not the same as manipulating spirit.

 

[ElixirBlue]

What does realities mean to you? Cause Dio, a space robot, was effected by the Genesis wave, despite being light years away from the planet. Oh, and the Genesis wave without being Super is 4D.

I'm talking about the Genesis Wave, that Eggman performed with one Emerald. It's planetary. The Super Genesis Wave is what affected Sonic and Mega Man's Worlds. And dude Reality Warping in general is 4-D...

I only see One Emerald being used here before the SGW

 

[HST_Master]

Archie Sonic remembered pre-Genesis history and what happen in worlds Collide at the same time without needing to touch Nicole. Just like he did after the first Genesis wave. And manipulating memories is not the same as manipulating spirit.

https://***************.to/Comic/Sonic-The-Hedgehog/Issue-226?id=20203

He had no idea who Sally and co were after the 1st wave.

And again, we don't scale other resistances from Reality Warping. And yet again Post Gen Sonic doesn't share resistances with Pre Gen. Along with Tails literally saying that nicole retained the energy from the old reality and that Sonic was at the epicenter unlike everyone else sans Nicole.

 

[HST_Master]

And yet again he was in his Super State when everything went down. Not base.

 

[TheSpeedster96]

So what I'm getting from everything relevant for base Sonic, the Genesis Wave was on a planetary scale with a single emerald, and base Sonic was unaffected by it?

 

[ElixirBlue]

^ go back to talking about the image I sent about one Chaos emeralds effecting more than a planet. Cause Dio was effected, despite being light years away.

 

[HST_Master]

1

And in the very same thing he says it only has one emerald. Refferring to the 1st Genesis Wave, after he shot Sally Down. Mega's Universe wasn't affected by that in the slightest. Not to mention Shadow's Chaos Control even messes with Reality slightly when he teleports during Worlds Collide thanks to the backlash of the Genesis Waves.

 

[HST_Master]

So what I'm getting from everything relevant for base Sonic, the Genesis Wave was on a planetary scale with a single emerald, and base Sonic was unaffected by it?

He was, that was the entire events of Genesis. He had no idea who Sally, Antoine and Boomer/Rotor were.

 

[ElixirBlue]

The 1st Genesis wave didn't need to focus on anything beyond the planet. The second Genesis wave showed off its true range, even creating the wisps.

 

[ElixirBlue]

Shadow's teleportation disrupted a pocket dimension, not either of the universes.

 

[TheSpeedster96]

So the first Genesis Wave was used with a single emerald, and the Super one with all seven, correct? If the second one needed all seven emeralds just to affect the multiverse, then you'd need to prove a single one has the same range as all seven because all I saw was a single one altering the history of a planet.

 

[ElixirBlue]

Sonic's memory being effected was not permanent. He resisted it.

 

[ElixirBlue]

So the first Genesis Wave was used with a single emerald, and the Super one with all seven, correct? If the second one needed all seven emeralds just to affect the multiverse, then you'd need to prove a single one has the same range as all seven because all I saw was a single one altering the history of a planet.

Omg. One emerald effect two universes. Changed the history of one universe (Sonic, including the creation of the wisps) and pushing Megaman's universe into the future (as the events of Megaman take place across the universe with Dio's, the space cop alien that fights evil energy, story.)

 

[HST_Master]

https://***************.to/Comic/Sonic-Universe/Issue-51?id=21691

Affected the second time too.

And that's not resistance, that's a flaw in the GW, since everyone started slowly remembering. Even Eggman blatantly does right in the same scan.

 

[TheSpeedster96]

I read it. You keep showing the exact same scan, and nowhere does it state Megaman's world was effected too, or creation of wisps. Actually show the scan, because I don't read Archie Sonic and I'm don't going to take your word for it without evidence.

 

[ElixirBlue]

I read it. You keep showing the exact same scan, and nowhere does it state Megaman's world was effected too, or creation of wisps. Actually show the scan, because I don't read Archie Sonic and I'm don't going to take your word for it without evidence.

Wisp didn't exist in Archie's lore before the 2nd regular Genesis wave. How do I show a scan of the Wisp not existing before the 2nd Genesis wave?

 

[Inverted_Tempest]

Uh, what? Your comment legit made no sense.

 

[ElixirBlue]

"Press the Cosmic Reset button, doctor, our realities will be reshaped and primed for our conquest.

[[

 

[ElixirBlue]

Uh, what? Your comment legit made no sense.

What is not making sense?

 

[HST_Master]

Wisp didn't exist in Archie's lore before the 2nd regular Genesis wave. How do I show a scan of the Wisp not existing before the 2nd Genesis wave?

They didn't exist after the second one either. It's the Super Genesis Wave that brought them into the Post Genesis Continuity as it's more closely aligned with the games instead of just throwing them into the "Another Side Another Story" short stories they used to do.

 

[Inverted_Tempest]

Your comment about it not being the Prime Zone. That was Prime Zone Sonic, just within a different reality.

 

[ElixirBlue]

Wisp didn't exist in Archie's lore before the 2nd regular Genesis wave. How do I show a scan of the Wisp not existing before the 2nd Genesis wave?

They didn't exist after the second one either. It's the Super Genesis Wave that brought them into the Post Genesis Continuity as it's more closely aligned with the games instead of just throwing them into the "Another Side Another Story" short stories they used to do.

And by doing that, the Genesis wave created the Wisp. And before you say "perhaps it took them to another universe in the multiverse":


Wisps that didn't appear in the Prime zone now exist after the 2nd regular Genesis wave. Why are we going back and forth on this?

 

[ElixirBlue]

Your comment about it not being the Prime Zone. That was Prime Zone Sonic, just within a different reality.

If it's in a different reality, it's a different Sonic, not Prime Sonic. Prime Sonic effected directly by the Genesis wave is still the same Sonic, branching timelines and different realities aren't Prime Sonic.

 

[ElixirBlue]

And i'm going to bed.

 

[Inverted_Tempest]

Oh yeah, I would like to add you're literally just showing Memory Manipulation resistance through the Genesis Wave, not Mind Manipulation. Hell, I'm looking at the Sonic Wikia for Archie right now and the scale seems irrelevant because it seems to just blockade memories rather than outright erase them. That's far below what Death's mind hax does in its effects and Memory Manipulation is just a subset of Mind Manipulation. Arguing that you resist Mind Manipulation from this would legit be like arguing you resist Conceptual Manipulation automatically because you resist a form of Reality Warping.

"The Genesis Wave also cannot completely erase old memories. A regular Genesis Wave for example often leaving the affected inhabitants with amnesia or senses of deja vu." - https://sonic.fandom.com/wiki/Genesis_Wave

 

[HST_Master]

Wisp didn't exist in Archie's lore before the 2nd regular Genesis wave. How do I show a scan of the Wisp not existing before the 2nd Genesis wave?

They didn't exist after the second one either. It's the Super Genesis Wave that brought them into the Post Genesis Continuity as it's more closely aligned with the games instead of just throwing them into the "Another Side Another Story" short stories they used to do.

And by doing that, the Genesis wave created the Wisp. And before you say "perhaps it took them to another universe in the multiverse":


Wisps that didn't appear in the Prime zone now exist after the 2nd regular Genesis wave. Why are we going back and forth on this?

Dude that says literally nothing about the wisp at all. He's talking about the very 1st genesis wave that Eggman did. Again the Post Genesis Reality is where they are acknowledged and is the continuity they are apart of.

 

[Inverted_Tempest]

Uh, Prime Sonic would be the Mobius Prime one. There are two outcomes from that timeline that still involve Prime Sonic, which is Light Mobius and Dark Mobius. Those are effectively still the same Sonic.

 

[TheSpeedster96]

K, so I'm just going to assume it affected both universes since this is getting derailed from the actual debate.

The scan for Sonic resisting the Genesis Wave, he was still affected, along with everyone. That's literally a limitation of what it can do, and as it was already pointed out, people would've regained their memories. The range was was 4D, yeah whatever, still had a huge flaw when altering their memories. Death is still mind haxing him.

Also, if this was taken as a full resistance, it's just resistance to Memory Manipulation, which is a subset of Mind Manipulating. I seriously wouldn't need to point out just how dumb trying to scale one sub set resistance of a hax to others would be.

 

[ElixirBlue]

And by doing that, the Genesis wave created the Wisp. And before you say "perhaps it took them to another universe in the multiverse":


Wisps that didn't appear in the Prime zone now exist after the 2nd regular Genesis wave. Why are we going back and forth on this?

Dude that says literally nothing about the wisp at all. He's talking about the very 1st genesis wave that Eggman did. Again the Post Genesis Reality is where they are acknowledged and is the continuity they are apart of.

That image was to prove all the reality warping happen in the prime zone. The image was to support the Wisp came from the Genesis wave, not from another reality. The Zonic didn't need to mention the wisp.

 

[TheSpeedster96]

This is copied from this revision thread were the castle's affects were accepted since I'm not going to dig through enemy wiki descriptions.

>Resistance to Mind, Soul Manipulation, Corruption, Transmutation and Posession: The Castle itself warps and corrupts the people's or animals minds and souls inside of it and its influence is the reason some enemies exist and fight against you: "transformed into a giant insect by exposure to castle's magic", "Transformed into a giant ghost by exposure to the castle's magic.", "A monstrous mollusk imbued with the castle's dark power.", "Local barnyard owl. Mutated by castle's influence." https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/2565574

Death's Mind Manipulation >>> this. The castle literally turns things mindless, and makes them a slave to Dracula. That's more than Memory Manipulation, which Sonic "resists".

 

[HST_Master]

@Elixir

Dude don't start that. And again

A. That doesn't prove that the entire universe was affected. That's literally just Zonic talking about the Genesis Wave.

B. You post is blatantly having it where your using Zonic's statement as a reasoning for the wisps.

 

[ElixirBlue]

I think I was in the wrong direction when forming my arguments here. I didn't expect to have to prove the range on the Genesis Wave here.

 

[ElixirBlue]

I've contacted some of the ones who made Sonic's wiki to see if they come in a help out.

 

[ElixirBlue]

Oh right. Here's where the mind manipulation resistance comes from.

Power Rings

Sonic's 1 Billionth Ring is a power ring Sonic is always carrying.

 

[TheSpeedster96]

To what scale? The castle contains the Abyss , where just one of its hells is an entire universe . Yeah, the castle's influence is ridiculously big lol.

 

[HST_Master]

This is where it comes from.

 

[Genericstickman]

bump

 

[Genericstickman]

bump

 

[Inverted_Tempest]

Bump

 

[Foneybone1]

The first Genesis Wave was planetary, and, to my knowledge, was not an attempt to affect Sonic's soul, it was merely to rewind time to before he had collected so much chaos energy.
The second Genesis Wave does effect all of Sonic and Megaman's realities, but Ian Flynn explained it was only able to do so due to it's location in the Skull Egg Zone and Wily and Eggman's combined genius .
Shadow's teleportation disrupted the Skull Egg Zone because it was unstable.
Sonic did not resist mind manipulation during Genesis, there was no mind manipulation to resist. Eggman reset time and Snively explains the spacetime continuum is trying to correct the change Eggman did which is the reason Sonic's memories return.
Sonic is not always carrying his billionth ring, he keeps it mounted on his wall, he has to retrieve it.

As for this vs, fate hax does not prevent Sonic from dying, he's died twice in the Prime timeline. do with that information what you will.

I went over a lot, so I will retireve scans upon request.