- 489
- 139
Hello folks. The goal of this CRT is to establish several things:
This should be fun.
To solidify my points here I will go in chronological order of events.
In Sonic Adventure, we are introduced to Adventure Sonic and co. At this time, the characters can scale to people that have single Chaos Emeralds on them, such as Chaos, who absorbs numerous Chaos Emeralds yet can still be defeated by the likes of Sonic, Tails and Knuckles, and this is further apparent when they battle Emerl after he's taken energy from the Emeralds.
A single Chaos Emerald is shown to have several casual 5-B feats, including one feat where it can shift a continent back into place, which is less than .1 yottaton from 5-A. Similarly, a single Chaos Emerald can detonate the planet.
Why would this be 5-A? Well...
Sonic gets more powerful over time. This eventually leads to him fighting the Nega Wisp Armor, which is powered by Nega Wisps. These Wisps can create 5-A black holes (2.7 ninatons) which is 5-A+. This gives us two different keys of Adventure Sonic (5-A) and Modern Sonic (5-A+).
Finally, Sonic does eventually have to fight Infinite, who curbstomps him in their first fight. However, after 6 months of growing in power, Sonic challenges Infinite and defeats him. This means that Sonic could curbstomp his Pre-Forces self. He would most likely need another key to keep track of his power by this point.
Who scales to what? Here is everyone I can think of that needs to be altered AP-wise because of this upgrade.
5-A (7 yottatons) upgrade:
High 5-A Keys
The Eggrobo in Sonic Lost World can create black holes of this magnitude, through the energies from the Extractor.
In the 3DS version of Sonic Lost World, Sonic obtains these energies to fight the Eggrobo, making this no longer an outlier.
So far we're giving Sonic separate Adventure, Pre-Forces, Post-Forces and Extractor Energy keys...Jeez. Oh, and the Eggrobo should now be High 5-A with casual 5-B and 5-A feats.
No more 5-A Super forms
The argument that Super forms are minimum 5-A is because Super Sonic fought Perfect Chaos, who was amped by the Negative Chaos Energy at 7 yottatons. This is wrong for a few reasons.
Addressing arguments
If the Adventure Cast was 5-A, why couldn't they defeat Perfect Chaos without the Chaos Emeralds?
Partially because Perfect Chaos is 2.7 ninatons into 5-A and they're only 7 yottatons, and also partially because Super Sonic needed to drain Chaos' negativity to pacify him.
Why didn't Sonic just defeat Dark Gaia in his base form?
Because Dark Gaia was narratively stronger. He transcends 7 yottatons vastly, but we have no evidence to put him at 2.7 ninatons. That's why Sonic attacked his eyes.
Sonic beat the Eggrobo in his base form
Which was an outlier. The only reason we can even assume the High 5-A key is because of the Extractor Energy on the 3DS.
The Eggrobo's black hole and the Nega Wisp Armor's black holes are outliers
No evidence leads to this and Sonic's passive growth supports that they aren't.
In Sonic Generations, Sonic has to attack Perfect Chaos' brain, which is a weakpoint
Firstly, weakpoints aren't infinitely weaker than the rest of the body. Secondly, Chaos' forms are all made of pure energy, so Sonic going through his body means he has to blast through all of his energy and tank it just to smack his brain.
Sonic got one-shot by the giant Hyper-Go-On black hole
Because he doesn't resist black hole creation very well.
Conclusion
All Adventure to Chronicles characters are 5-A (7 yottatons), Modern characters are 5-A+ (2.7 ninatons) including Perfect Chaos, Post-Forces Modern characters are 5-A+ to the point of stomping the Modern Characters. Sonic needs his Werehog and Excalibur keys at 5-A, and he needs separate Adventure, Pre-Forces, Extractor Energy and Post-Forces keys. Anyone who is minimum 5-A with Super form scaling should go back to 4-A, or 2-C, or somethin'.
- 1. 5-A Base Sonic Buff (applies to all)
- 2. Additional High 5-A stuff (applies to Sonic and Eggrobo)
- 3. No more 5-A Super Forms
This should be fun.
To solidify my points here I will go in chronological order of events.
In Sonic Adventure, we are introduced to Adventure Sonic and co. At this time, the characters can scale to people that have single Chaos Emeralds on them, such as Chaos, who absorbs numerous Chaos Emeralds yet can still be defeated by the likes of Sonic, Tails and Knuckles, and this is further apparent when they battle Emerl after he's taken energy from the Emeralds.
A single Chaos Emerald is shown to have several casual 5-B feats, including one feat where it can shift a continent back into place, which is less than .1 yottaton from 5-A. Similarly, a single Chaos Emerald can detonate the planet.
Why would this be 5-A? Well...
- 1. We generally accept splitting the planet into several pieces as low-end 5-A
- 2. Eggman performed this feat (via Chaos Control) with malicious intent. Negative Chaos Energy and planet-busting...where have I seen this before? Point is, whenever the world has been split into several pieces by Negative Chaos Energy, it's usually done in the same 5-A fashion that would put a single Chaos Emerald at 7 yottatons.
Sonic gets more powerful over time. This eventually leads to him fighting the Nega Wisp Armor, which is powered by Nega Wisps. These Wisps can create 5-A black holes (2.7 ninatons) which is 5-A+. This gives us two different keys of Adventure Sonic (5-A) and Modern Sonic (5-A+).
Finally, Sonic does eventually have to fight Infinite, who curbstomps him in their first fight. However, after 6 months of growing in power, Sonic challenges Infinite and defeats him. This means that Sonic could curbstomp his Pre-Forces self. He would most likely need another key to keep track of his power by this point.
Who scales to what? Here is everyone I can think of that needs to be altered AP-wise because of this upgrade.
5-A (7 yottatons) upgrade:
- Adventure Sonic
- Adventure Tails
- Adventure Knuckles
- Adventure Amy Rose
- Adventure Shadow
- Adventure Rouge
- E-123 Omega
- Adventure Metal Sonic
- Chaos Emerald (single)
- Cream
- Big
- Adventure Vector
- Adventure Charmy
- Adventure Espio
- Gamma
- Mecha Knuckles
- Chaos (all forms)
- Biolizard
- Emerl
- E-101 Beta
- E-105 Zeta
- Gemerl
- Black Doom
- Mephiles
- Iblis
- Imperator Ix
- Shade
- Erazor Djinn
- Egg Golem
- The Ifrit
- Jet
- Wave
- Storm
- King Arthur
- Metal Sonic 3.0
- Sir Lancelot
- Merlina
- Silver
- Blaze
- Mephiles
- Dark Gaia, Chip and the Werehog (this is a weird case because while they should all be 5-A, there's no definitive placement as to if they're 2.7 ninatons or just above 7 yottatons)
- Excalibur Sonic (can harm a foe that base Sonic couldn't scratch)
- Pre-Forces Modern Sonic
- Modern Tails
- Modern Knuckles
- Modern Amy Rose
- Modern Metal Sonic
- Modern Silver
- Modern Blaze
- Modern Big
- Modern Vector
- Modern Espio
- Modern Charmy
- Possibly the Custom Hero (Sonic Forces)
- E-123 Omega
- Nega Wisp Armor
- Perfect Chaos (can fight Sonic in Sonic Generations)
- Zazz
- Zavok
- Zeena
- Zomom
- Zor
- Master Zik
- Post-Forces Modern Sonic
- Infinite
- Death Egg Robot (Sonic Forces)
High 5-A Keys
The Eggrobo in Sonic Lost World can create black holes of this magnitude, through the energies from the Extractor.
In the 3DS version of Sonic Lost World, Sonic obtains these energies to fight the Eggrobo, making this no longer an outlier.
So far we're giving Sonic separate Adventure, Pre-Forces, Post-Forces and Extractor Energy keys...Jeez. Oh, and the Eggrobo should now be High 5-A with casual 5-B and 5-A feats.
No more 5-A Super forms
The argument that Super forms are minimum 5-A is because Super Sonic fought Perfect Chaos, who was amped by the Negative Chaos Energy at 7 yottatons. This is wrong for a few reasons.
- 1. Negative Chaos Energy doesn't have a minimum or maximum power. Any time one uses Chaos Energy for their own will with malicious intent or negative emotions, they're tapping into the power of Negative Chaos Energy and turning those thoughts and emotions into power. In theory, a 9-C character could pick up a Chaos Emerald and use Chaos Control through Negative Chaos Energies, but that wouldn't suddenly make them 5-A with a Chaos Emerald. Yes, performing 5-A feats with a Chaos Emerald is possible; no, it is not a minimum.
- 2. Super Sonic was stomping Perfect Chaos. When one character stomps another, we do not assume that to be their minimum strength in any regard. Perfect Chaos only ever harms Super Sonic through game mechanics regardless. We know this because: A.) Super Sonic is Invulnerable and B.) Super Sonic was draining his negative energies throughout the fight passively. If Perfect Chaos doesn't have the means to keep up, he shouldn't be able to reasonably harm Super Sonic, which was out of the picture to begin with because of A.
Addressing arguments
If the Adventure Cast was 5-A, why couldn't they defeat Perfect Chaos without the Chaos Emeralds?
Partially because Perfect Chaos is 2.7 ninatons into 5-A and they're only 7 yottatons, and also partially because Super Sonic needed to drain Chaos' negativity to pacify him.
Why didn't Sonic just defeat Dark Gaia in his base form?
Because Dark Gaia was narratively stronger. He transcends 7 yottatons vastly, but we have no evidence to put him at 2.7 ninatons. That's why Sonic attacked his eyes.
Sonic beat the Eggrobo in his base form
Which was an outlier. The only reason we can even assume the High 5-A key is because of the Extractor Energy on the 3DS.
The Eggrobo's black hole and the Nega Wisp Armor's black holes are outliers
No evidence leads to this and Sonic's passive growth supports that they aren't.
In Sonic Generations, Sonic has to attack Perfect Chaos' brain, which is a weakpoint
Firstly, weakpoints aren't infinitely weaker than the rest of the body. Secondly, Chaos' forms are all made of pure energy, so Sonic going through his body means he has to blast through all of his energy and tank it just to smack his brain.
Sonic got one-shot by the giant Hyper-Go-On black hole
Because he doesn't resist black hole creation very well.
Conclusion
All Adventure to Chronicles characters are 5-A (7 yottatons), Modern characters are 5-A+ (2.7 ninatons) including Perfect Chaos, Post-Forces Modern characters are 5-A+ to the point of stomping the Modern Characters. Sonic needs his Werehog and Excalibur keys at 5-A, and he needs separate Adventure, Pre-Forces, Extractor Energy and Post-Forces keys. Anyone who is minimum 5-A with Super form scaling should go back to 4-A, or 2-C, or somethin'.
