Sonic Black-Blue CTR

[Fireld]

Classic Sonic
Accelerated Development: Noted get more powerful between games. More proof here. A thanks to @UltraChair
Toon Force: In the scan already in the page, he can float mid air for a few seconds & jump back on a platform if he's fast enough(Scales to Mighty & Ray). In Fighters he can body deform cartoonishly if he gets punched hard enough(Scales to the rest of the cast of the game)
New Key is needed: He became much more powerful in the newer games & might come from a split timeline. He oneshots GUN Mechs, Iblis Minions, Phantom Ruby Chaos Zero; slightly hurt Generations Ruoge; beat the Modern Egg Mobile, 90% Egg Dragoon, Death Egg 1st Phase & helped deafeat Phase 3. Took around a simular amount of damage to Modern Sonic when getting hit by the a casual Time Eater & an explosion from Infinite(That last durability feat should be mentioned for the modern characters too). Dodged Rouge's bombs & Charmy's traps; beats Knuckles in an obstical race, Amy in a race while running in a spinning top, Cream in Chao gathering race; tagged Blaze with help from the Spike Wisp. This might explain why Classic Sonic & Metal weren't turned to statues unlike most of Modern Sonic's friends did.
Speed: Had reached the speed of light since CD, can move in nanoseconds and has outsped several confirmed lasers
Possibly Absolute Zero Resistance: Seemingly unaffected by absolute zero.

Adventure/Modern Sonic
NPI: Could hit Vector's musical notes.
Martial Arts: Is fighting buddies with Knuckles
Invurnability: More proof for Super Sonic
Sound & Electricity Resistance: He & Shadow could still race, albeit with some difficulty, depsite getting hit by Ivory & Magenta Wisps
Reactive Power Level & Accelerated Development: Trained before the events of Adventure. Moved faster in Adventure 2 than ever before. Same goes in 06 and Rivals series. Kept exceeding Zig and Zavok's expectations after seeing him in action before. Replace the Chronicles feat with this, move the Riders+Colors feat to the Modern Key & put the Rivals 2 feat on Tails page. Much like Emerl, Sonic &.co can increase their stats by gaining EXP Points, so it's a safe bet most characters in the verse could have this ability. Near the end of Advance 2, Sonic could defeat previous bosses with the half amount of hits it took him to do previously. Shout out to @BlastX for the last example.
Durability: Took a punch from Knuckles
Speed: Moves at warp speed in Adventure 1. Outran a black hole in Shuffle. Move this calc to the modern key. Outran lasers in Lost World. With Boost he's capable of interstellar travel.
Boost: It should be noted that it doesn't only increase his speed but also AP/Durability.
Credit to this RT for some of the info above

Chaos
Strength: Remove Emerl from the Adventure Key. Scale him to his Phantom Ruby Clone which was wrestling beginning of Forces Sonic with just 1 hand.

Metal Sonic
Speed: Just link his races in Colors Ultimate & that the Cyan Wisp is FTL. Thanks @Executor_N0 for bringing this up.
Durability: Took several hits from Wisps amped Sonic before breaking down in Rise of the Wisps
Remove Time Travel: Despite copying Shadow's Chaos Control in Aventure 2 Battle, Heroes, Free Riders, Rivals 1 & 2; he couldn't use it to cross dimensions in the end of Rivals 2. Instead he's so desperate he had to rip open his body to give the emerald for Shadow to perform Dimensional Travel Chaos Control instead of doing it himself. This means despite seeing & copying a certain aspect of Chaos Control, it doesn't mean he has access to every application of that technique by default. Same goes goes for Metal Sonic V3.0. Oh & while we're at it, remove Dimensional Travel from V3.0. When Shadow performed, V3.0 wan't there thus he wouldn't be able to copy/have it.

Gemerl
Reactive Power Level & Accelerated Development(Battle). Makes sense as he was based on Emerl who has this ability too.

Omega
Adventure: Helped Shadow beat several Shadow Androids who could perfectly counter the original's and Sonic's Homing Attacks.
Modern: Unlike the hedgehogs, Omega can attack the Iblis Golems without waiting for a clear shot at their heads. Can break Super Egg Pawns.

Shadow
Reactive Power Level & Accelerated Development(Battle, Training; Physicals Stats, Abilities): Used to train back on the Ark. Said to have gotten faster and stronger between Sonic Heroes and Shadow the Hedgehog which was proven true as he could break Egg Pawn's shields which could previously withstand hits even from Omega and impressed Sonic so much, he gets challenged him twice despite under invasion from one of the most toughest opponents yet. Likes to regularly put his skills to the test. Topped his own record in an agent test.
Striking Strength: Kicked away Espio
Durability: Can endure attacks from Sonic better than Silver
Boost: Can run over Sonic(AP). Was the only rival that Sonic needed a power up to overwhelm(Durability).
Martial Arts: His fighting ability didn't seem wane even after he lost his memory. After having access to Shadow's body, Eggman managed to replicate his physicality with the Shadow Androids but not his combat skills. Even without the aid of chaos powers he held his own in h2h combat against Knuckles, a martial artist with greater strength; Rouge, a secret agent; Espio, a ninja; Sonic, a simular fighter who has experience beating doppelgangers of himself.
Vehicular Mastery(Modern Key): Is the best biker in Soleanna; beat the, 5 times in the row, champ of the Car Festival; broke the Buggy Ring Race and Hover Vehicles Short Course record. Won a Buggy Race against a GUN Agent despite the later preparing hard for this race. Played the role of a stuntman in a racing movie. Much like Sonic, he quickly picked up Extreme Gear.
Danger Sense: Possibly more proof that he has it. That 2nd is impressive when you factor that Rouge sensed Espio while he's trying to sneak on her but not Iblis.
Chaos Spear: It can neutralize special enemy effects including Silver's Psycokinesis.
Maybe remove Sealing Resistance: Yeah i know it comes from scaling to Mephiles. The Spectre of Darkness was designed for past Mephiles who's immaterial while present Mephiles is much diffrent than before making the Spectre ineffective. After absorbing Shadow's shadow he not only gained a power boost but he also gained a real physical form.

EDIT: Most characters should've resistance to Transmutation/Deconstruction as in TSR every playable character(Team Sonic, Team Dark, Team Rose, Zavok, Vector, Silver & Blaze) can withstand the effects of the Blue Cube. This isn't just game-mechanics as in the prequel comic Eggman survived a combination attack from the Black, Blue, Crimson, Cyan, Gray, Jade, Orange, Violet, Pink Wisps who were still pissed at him. This doubles as a Durability feat for Modern Eggman too. Metal, Orbot & Cubot were unaffected by the Blue Wisp in Rise of the Wips either.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Following this

 

[JED]

Goodness man you just made a CRT you move quick
I do wanna make a side note before I comment: there is a verse-wide CRT centered around the Encyclopedia planned to be released very soon, so all the Chronicles stuff will be tackled there.
As for your scans, great job as usual. I agree with 99%, so I’ll just comment on some of the things I find a little more contentious.

1. Sonic already has NPI, and Ice and Cold Resistance. AZ is something we haven’t discussed though, so I’m for it.
2. I’ve been trying to argue for a while most of the cast should get transmutation resistance since they get hit by Wisps in TSR
3. I would suggest to the Modern profiles we had, “higher with Boost” to AP and Durability.
4. Chaos has Extreme Cold Resistance for surviving in space just fine, as the cold of space is only about 3 degrees from AZ (which means the ice that freezes the Sonic characters face is busted)
5. I can see where you’re coming from, but the thing is he explicitly stated he breaks out because of Shadow’s power. He said this in the Japanese version more explicitly, but thanks to Windii’s page being taken down that scan is unavailable atm.

Other than that, excellent work.
Side note: Can we just upgrade Sonic and Shadow to master martial artists at this point.

Side note 2: That Shadow sense is powerful

 

[ShakeResounding]

1. Sonic already has NPI, and Ice and Cold Resistance. AZ is something we haven’t discussed though, so I’m for it.

Anither thing to note is Sonic 4 (both of them) are considered to be in the Classic Era. So if Resistance to AZ is accepted, Classic would also get it.

 

[Theuser789]

In Fighters he can body deform cartoonishly if he gets punched hard enough

I feel like this would apply to the entire Fighters cast

 

[Theuser789]

Anither thing to note is Sonic 4 (both of them) are considered to be in the Classic Era. So if Resistance to AZ is accepted, Classic would also get it.

Ian said in a bublekast Sonic 4 only happens in the modern era/timeline iirc

 

[BlastX]

Following and I agree with most things here

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Ian said in a bublekast Sonic 4 only happens in the modern era/timeline iirc

He likely meant that "Classic Sonic" (aka, the one from Sonic Mania's timeline) didn't experienced it, since following Sonic Generation the timelines changed and Classic Sonic became a seperate entity from Modern Sonic. Sonic 4 was stated to happen after S3&K I think

 

[Theuser789]

Yeah that's what I meant

 

[Livinmeme]

Goodness man you just made a CRT you move quick
I do wanna make a side note before I comment: there is a verse-wide CRT centered around the Encyclopedia planned to be released very soon, so all the Chronicles stuff will be tackled there.
As for your scans, great job as usual. I agree with 99%, so I’ll just comment on some of the things I find a little more contentious.

1. Sonic already has NPI, and Ice and Cold Resistance. AZ is something we haven’t discussed though, so I’m for it.
2. I’ve been trying to argue for a while most of the cast should get transmutation resistance since they get hit by Wisps in TSR
3. I would suggest to the Modern profiles we had, “higher with Boost” to AP and Durability.
4. Chaos has Extreme Cold Resistance for surviving in space just fine, as the cold of space is only about 3 degrees from AZ (which means the ice that freezes the Sonic characters face is busted)
5. I can see where you’re coming from, but the thing is he explicitly stated he breaks out because of Shadow’s power. He said this in the Japanese version more explicitly, but thanks to Windii’s page being taken down that scan is unavailable atm.

Other than that, excellent work.
Side note: Can we just upgrade Sonic and Shadow to master martial artists at this point.

Side note 2: That Shadow sense is powerful

Pretty sure that you can't imply that the ice than freezes sonic and co, is AZ because you can't reach AZ with upscaling

 

[Fireld]

Goodness man you just made a CRT you move quick
I do wanna make a side note before I comment: there is a verse-wide CRT centered around the Encyclopedia planned to be released very soon, so all the Chronicles stuff will be tackled there.
As for your scans, great job as usual. I agree with 99%, so I’ll just comment on some of the things I find a little more contentious.

1. Sonic already has NPI, and Ice and Cold Resistance. AZ is something we haven’t discussed though, so I’m for it.
2. I’ve been trying to argue for a while most of the cast should get transmutation resistance since they get hit by Wisps in TSR
3. I would suggest to the Modern profiles we had, “higher with Boost” to AP and Durability.
4. Chaos has Extreme Cold Resistance for surviving in space just fine, as the cold of space is only about 3 degrees from AZ (which means the ice that freezes the Sonic characters face is busted)
5. I can see where you’re coming from, but the thing is he explicitly stated he breaks out because of Shadow’s power. He said this in the Japanese version more explicitly, but thanks to Windii’s page being taken down that scan is unavailable atm.

Other than that, excellent work.
Side note: Can we just upgrade Sonic and Shadow to master martial artists at this point.

Side note 2: That Shadow sense is powerful

If I'd waited a month, i probably wouldn't have time cause of others stuff.
Noted.
Thanks a lot, though i've to admit that RT really helped with the 2 Sonics
1. Easy, that scan gives Sonic more variety for his NPI. He has it in his page for hit non-corporeal beings, this scans shows he can negate sound based intangibility too. The AZ scan is aditional proof to what he already has.
2. Is it really that contreversial? Sonic has already resistance to matter/anti-matter, reality manipultion & existance erasure which can cover transmutation & deconstruction.
3. That's would be perfect
4. Ah i forgot Chaos can Boost in outerspace in Sonic Runners. I'll scratch that from the list(That's some physics defying ice)
5. Got ya covered there. I still think Mephiles getting a real physical form & getting a power boost(so strong he stonewalls base Shadow attacks with his guard) made him powerful & different enough to make the seal not work, instead of an innate hax resistance to Shadow. Iblis seal was pretty specific too. Also damm, what a big L.

Thanks for the feedback!
Especially after Battle for Sonic & 06 for Shadow, defenetly

Yeah, now that you mention it Sonic didn't Iblis either

 

[Fireld]

So the conclusion is Sonic 4 is from the Classic Era?

 

[JED]

Pretty sure that you can't imply that the ice than freezes sonic and co, is AZ because you can't reach AZ with upscaling

Never said the ice was AZ though…

 

[ShakeResounding]

So the conclusion is Sonic 4 is from the Classic Era?

Yeah. It falls in line with Episode Metal being the return on the original Metal Sonic, who appears in future Classic titles such as Triple Trouble and Fighters

 

[JED]

If I'd waited a month, i probably wouldn't have time cause of others stuff.
Noted.
Thanks a lot, though i've to admit that RT really helped with the 2 Sonics
1. Easy, that scan gives Sonic more variety for his NPI. He has it in his page for hit non-corporeal beings, this scans shows he can negate sound based intangibility too. The AZ scan is aditional proof to what he already has.
2. Is it really that contreversial? Sonic has already resistance to matter/anti-matter, reality manipultion & existance erasure which can cover transmutation & deconstruction.
3. That's would be perfect
4. Ah i forgot Chaos can Boost in outerspace in Sonic Runners. I'll scratch that from the list(That's some physics defying ice)
5. Got ya covered there. I still think Mephiles getting a real physical form & getting a power boost(so strong he stonewalls base Shadow attacks with his guard) made him powerful & different enough to make the seal not work, instead of an innate hax resistance to Shadow. Iblis seal was pretty specific too. Also damm, what a big L.

Thanks for the feedback!
Especially after Battle for Sonic & 06 for Shadow, defenetly

Yeah, now that you mention it Sonic didn't Iblis either

1. Fair. But AZ is a different, more extreme ability from extreme cold. Being able to resist extreme cold doesn’t mean you resist AZ, but if you resist AZ, you resist extreme cold.
2. Yes well apparently it’s really hard to conceive someone who resists EE and RW resisting transmutation.
5. I can see why you feel that but if you can’t definitively prove the opposition, then it can’t be removed.

 

[Fireld]

I feel like this would apply to the entire Fighters cast

Yeah. It falls in line with Episode Metal being the return on the original Metal Sonic, who appears in future Classic titles such as Triple Trouble and Fighters

Updated the OP

1. Fair. But AZ is a different, more extreme ability from extreme cold. Being able to resist extreme cold doesn’t mean you resist AZ, but if you resist AZ, you resist extreme cold.
2. Yes well apparently it’s really hard to conceive someone who resists EE and RW resisting transmutation.
5. I can see why you feel that but if you can’t definitively prove the opposition, then it can’t be removed.

1. Alright then i'll add it as a new resistance instead of ice/cold resistance
2. Huh, wierd
3. Shadow had been sealed 3 times himself by the Ark, Eggman & GUN capsules

 

[JED]

Updated the OP

1. Alright then i'll add it as a new resistance instead of ice/cold resistance
2. Huh, wierd
3. Shadow had been sealed 3 times himself by the Ark, Eggman & GUN capsules

5. Not all sealing is the same. It works differently depending on the context.
And Bro, I know you know the context for all of those man. It’s not like Goku pulled up with the Mafuba told Shadow to get in and he got sucked in with no chance of getting out. There is context to each and all of the times, and they all ended with him being in suspended animation.

 

[Fireld]

5. Bro you know the context for all of those times c’mon man. It’s not like Goku pulled up with the Mafuba told Shadow to get in and he got sucked in with no chance of getting out. There is context to each and all of the times, and they all ended with him being in suspended animation.

We sure that last one was just suspended animation? I recall Omega saying it sealed Shadow & that last capsule is much different than the other ones(it has energy containment field)

 

[JED]

We sure that last one was just suspended animation? I recall Omega saying it sealed Shadow & that last capsule is much different than the other ones(it has energy containment field)

The “seal” is effectively a prison, not to mention Shadow was unconscious in that moment too. Placing someone in a containment field after they are beaten doesn’t deny a resistance to sealing.

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

Bump-O!

 

[ShakeResounding]

We should focus on getting staff input

 

[Fireld]

I contacted StarterPack, Elizhaa & Maverick yesterday.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

I’ll give my input shortly.

 

[BlastX]

To add to the Accelerate Development.

In Sonic Advance 2 XX Zone you fight a boss rush of all the bosses in the game and you defeat them in half the hits it took to beat them before, this implies all the characters became twice as strong at the end game that they were at the early game.

 

[Fireld]

Added to the OP & thanks! Also good eye ,you must have awaken the Sharingan

 

[BlastX]

Sadly I don't, else I would be able to cheat my upcoming midterms/tests.

Anyways there's also him beating the wrecking ball machine and the Drill Mobile in Advance 1 in half the hits that it took him in the classic series, though it isn't as impressive because with Chaos forms scaling Sonic is like 4x times or more stronger than his Classic self right from the start of the adventure era.

 

[Fireld]

Good luck with them!

Yeah not that impressive tbh. It's like Modern Sonic beating the Egg Emperor alone in Generations 3DS while in Heroes he needed Knuckles & Tails' help; when already he upscales to Ultimate Emerl.

 

[Fireld]

bump ig

 

[Foxthefox1000]

I don't think a name is enough for AZ? At least it hasn't been for other verses. Maybe if there's more supplemental information that clarifies it would be a definite. At most I'd just list it as a possibly and that's probably generous.

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

bump ig

People are still complaining about tan or blue arms Sonic as well as green eyes Sonic yet let's be honest, the TRUE most important Sonic related discussion is why Shadow's eyes keep periodically changing between red and gold in official Sonic media?

Overall I feel it's best to wait for Mav to give her feedback on this CRT before making any further discussion, see if other mods agree or disagree with her evaluation and go on from there.

Until then good job keeping this CRT alive.

 

[Fireld]

I don't think a name is enough for AZ? At least it hasn't been for other verses. Maybe if there's more supplemental information that clarifies it would be a definite. At most I'd just list it as a possibly and that's probably generous.

Not luck with AZ ig, i'll scratch that from the list

People are still complaining about tan or blue arms Sonic as well as green eyes Sonic yet let's be honest, the TRUE most important Sonic related discussion is why Shadow's eyes keep periodically changing between red and gold in official Sonic media?

Overall I feel it's best to wait for Mav to give her feedback on this CRT before making any further discussion, see if other mods agree or disagree with her evaluation and go on from there.

Until then good job keeping this CRT alive.

Maybe with each eye color he changes personality too?

OK.

Oh boi...

 

[Fireld]

Ultimate bump

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Accelerated Development and Minor Toon Force for Classic Sonic is fine. The Post-Mania key and Sonic CD lightspeed thing should also be fine to add, though I don’t think the nanosecond, asteroid, and Egg Mobile feats would reach FTL.

All the Modern Sonic proposals are fine besides the warp speed statement (that can just mean moving extremely fast, not specifically FTL) and his feat of instellar travel, which would need a calculation.

I agree with all other proposals besides removing Shadow’s Sealing Resistance. The occasions where he was sealed involve him being placed in suspended animation or unconscious/injured (Post-SA2/Heroes).

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

All the Modern Sonic proposals are fine besides the warp speed statement (that can just mean moving extremely fast, not specifically FTL) and his feat of instellar travel, which would need a calculation.

Warp speed refers to FTL speeds by definiton

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Warp speed refers to FTL speeds by definiton

By a definition, but it can also mean this:

 

[JED]

Accelerated Development and Minor Toon Force for Classic Sonic is fine. The Post-Mania key and Sonic CD lightspeed thing should also be fine to add, though I don’t think the nanosecond, asteroid, and Egg Mobile feats would reach FTL.

All the Modern Sonic proposals are fine besides the warp speed statement (that can just mean moving extremely fast, not specifically FTL) and his feat of instellar travel, which would need a calculation.

I agree with all other proposals besides removing Shadow’s Sealing Resistance. The occasions where he was sealed involve him being placed in suspended animation or unconscious/injured (Post-SA2/Heroes).

What about the AZ? You think that’s legit?

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

What about the AZ? You think that’s legit?

Should be fine as a likely/possibly

 

[Fireld]

Accelerated Development and Minor Toon Force for Classic Sonic is fine. The Post-Mania key and Sonic CD lightspeed thing should also be fine to add, though I don’t think the nanosecond, asteroid, and Egg Mobile feats would reach FTL.

All the Modern Sonic proposals are fine besides the warp speed statement (that can just mean moving extremely fast, not specifically FTL) and his feat of instellar travel, which would need a calculation.

I agree with all other proposals besides removing Shadow’s Sealing Resistance. The occasions where he was sealed involve him being placed in suspended animation or unconscious/injured (Post-SA2/Heroes).

OK not asteroid feat for Sonic or Egg Mobile scaling for him, but the the nanosecond feat might still be legit. Light moves 30cm per nanosecond.

Already done chief.

That debunks the argument i made in the comments but not the one in the OP. Mephiles still got sucked by the Spectre of Darkness & he blew it up from the inside. The spectre was made to seal his past version while his present version his own strength+Shadow strength, enough to overwhelm the seal with raw power.

By a definition, but it can also mean this:

The definition usually used for warp speed in fictional works is the faster than light one.

Should be fine as a likely/possibly

OK. What about the suggestions for the 2 Metal Sonics, Gemerl, Modern Tails & Chaos?

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

OK not asteroid feat for Sonic or Egg Mobile scaling for him, but the the nanosecond feat might still be legit. Light moves 30cm per nanosecond.

Alright then.

Already done chief.

Calc can’t be used as a supporting feat since it’s beyond the current ratings. You’d have to make a speed upgrade thread for the whole Verse.

That debunks the argument i made in the comments but not the one in the OP. Mephiles still got sucked by the Spectre of Darkness & he blew it up from the inside. The spectre was made to seal his past version while his present version his own strength+Shadow strength, enough to overwhelm the seal with raw power.

The definition usually used for warp speed in fictional works is the faster than light one.

Fair points.

OK. What about the suggestions for the 2 Metal Sonics, Gemerl, Modern Tails & Chaos?

I agree with all of them, they’re straightforward.

 

[Fireld]

Alright then.

Fair points.

I agree with all of them, they’re straightforward.

Thanks!

Calc can’t be used as a supporting feat since it’s beyond the current ratings. You’d have to make a speed upgrade thread for the whole Verse.

OK then, i'll ignore that calc for now so the scaling chain gets sorted out in another ctr.