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Son Goku (Game) vs Sonic the Hedgehog (Game)

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"Hakai being EE doesn't make it dura negating"

Yes, it does. What?

" especially when the move has never been shown to work on stronger opponents and can be overcome through sheer power."

Again, said "Sheer power" arguments are not accepted here. Either you have resistance, or you don't. There's no "Sheer Power" overpowering Hax on this site. That has never been a stated weakness of Hakai and is your headcanon.

""Zeno likely has resistance to EE himself?"

Headcanon."

Hah. No. He was right in the epicentre of a 2-C EE and he was 100% fine.
 
Hakai does matter on power, I explaneid this before, Golden Freeza easily resisted Sidra's hakai but not Toppo's, that's clear showing that strengh matters

Plus Sonic has transmutation since this EE talk is pointeless
 
ShadowWarrior1999 said:
It didn't instantly kill Zamasu. He was still able to use Mai as a human shield. Also, Hakai in the manga isn't existence erasure, it turns people to dust.
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Can we please get rid of Low-Godly Regenerationn from manga Fused Zamasu's profile? The fact that Fused Zamasu was afraid of Goku erasing him with Hakai should immediately debunk this nonsense.
 
JohnCenaNation said:
Can we please get rid of Low-Godly Regenerationn from manga Fused Zamasu's profile? The fact that Fused Zamasu was afraid of Goku erasing him with Hakai should immediately debunk this nonsense.
Click to expand...
Being afraid does not give it an incentive to remove it. Open A CRT a give a better reasoning than this.

Also, Its not Low-Godly it is Mid-Godly. Beerus in the manga said he cannot erased Immortal beings in the Black arc.

Beerus states that Hakai wouldn't kill him

Which has been stated to destroy one's body and soul completely so they cannot resurrect.),
 
Neither case he actually mentions hakai, and they mentioned they have an ability that can defeat him (Which could just be hakai)

Just saiyan.
 
SomebodyData said:
Neither case he actually mentions hakai, and they mentioned they have an ability that can defeat him (Which could just be hakai)
Just saiyan.
Click to expand...
Hakai = Destruction

The same meaning.
 
The first scan doesn't mention hakai

The second one doesn't elaborate between regular destruction or hakai destruction, just I will destroy your soul stuffs
 
"Yes, it does. What?"

No. It just means that people weaker than the user will get erased by it.

"Again, said "Sheer power" arguments are not accepted here. Either you have resistance, or you don't. There's no "Sheer Power" overpowering Hax on this site. That has never been a stated weakness of Hakai and is your headcanon."

Since you want to go that route there are multiple staff including Ryukama who don't agree with Hakai negating durability. It doesn't have to be a stated weakness when it's shown. If Hakai negates durability then Beerus could've just erased Jiren or Broly but instead was afraid of how powerful they were.

"Hah. No. He was right in the epicentre of a 2-C EE and he was 100% fine."

You mean his own attack? Yeah that's not resistance.
 
Akreious said:
"Hakai being EE doesn't make it dura negating"
Yes, it does. What?

" especially when the move has never been shown to work on stronger opponents and can be overcome through sheer power."

Again, said "Sheer power" arguments are not accepted here. Either you have resistance, or you don't. There's no "Sheer Power" overpowering Hax on this site. That has never been a stated weakness of Hakai and is your headcanon.

""Zeno likely has resistance to EE himself?"

Headcanon."

Hah. No. He was right in the epicentre of a 2-C EE and he was 100% fine.
Click to expand...
Actually you can't Hakai someone stronger than you, or else it's considered no limits fallacy.
 
That's not a no limits fallacy. No limits fallacy would be saying that it could kill anybody of any strength or dimensionality. He's saying that the Hakai can be used to kill stronger opponents than yourself
 
I mean, Frieza, Base Goku, Vegeta, and it can be resonably assumed Jiren all have or can resist or completely neg the Hakai. It would be silly to say that Vegeta who was getting slapped around by Toppo before his resolve boost suddenly gained resistance to existence erasure simply by powering up when there was no indication of it before. He simply just powered up and literally punched through and then final explosion'd passed the hakai. It's more of a strength thing. Which we saw clearly with Frieza vs the assassin with a fraction of Sidra's hakai energy which was made to kill and erase from existence against Toppo's who held back extremely against Frieza. Frieza overpowered the one made to erase him but got put down by the one made to just damage him
 
"I mean, Frieza, Base Goku, Vegeta, and it can be resonably assumed Jiren all have or can resist or completely neg the Hakai."

Then they all get resistance? Done?

" It would be silly to say that Vegeta who was getting slapped around by Toppo before his resolve boost suddenly gained resistance to existence erasure simply by powering up when there was no indication of it before."

Toppo straight up wasn't allowed to kill Vegeta so I'm not sure where you're getting that Toppo was attempting to intentionally EE Vegeta or something.

"He simply just powered up and literally punched through and then final explosion'd passed the hakai."

Again, Toppo wasn't allowed to kill his opponent. Plus all that means is that different levels of Ki (Or Godly Ki. either or) grants differing levels of resistance.

"Which we saw clearly with Frieza vs the assassin with a fraction of Sidra's hakai energy which was made to kill and erase from existence"

Which was an utterly pathetic showing of Hakai since Beerus just blew it away from Goku afterwards.

"Frieza overpowered the one made to erase him but got put down by the one made to just damage him"

Again, pitiful showing of Hakai since Sidra visibly underestimated Freeza.
 
ChocomilkAlex said:
Is Hyper Sonic even considered Canon anymore? Also Hyper Sonic hardly has any feats that warrant him being above 2-C.
Click to expand...
Mecha Sonic turned Super by using the Master Emerald, correct? Super Emeralds are Chaos Emeralds empowered by Master Emerald. So therefore Hyper Sonic is the equivalent of times seven Super Sonic multiplier.
 
You know the Super Emeralds are far superior than the Chaos Emeralds?

They absolutely belong in 2-C.Actuslly in at least 2-C

But would the battle be between the Hyper Sonic that we see in Sonic 3 and Knuckles or would it be Hyper Modern Sonic with some hypothetical multiplier?
 
"Then they all get resistance? Done?"

There's nothing special about them that makes them and exclusively them resistant to Hakai and other's not resistant besides them being stronger. It's not about hax resistace, its about strength.

"Toppo straight up wasn't allowed to kill Vegeta so I'm not sure where you're getting that Toppo was attempting to intentionally EE Vegeta or something."

By the end of the fight after Vegeta got his resolve boost, Toppo was using his full power and we can say that at the very least Toppo was trying to erase Vegeta's energy/aura/ki which was overpowered by Vegeta's own strength.

"Again, Toppo wasn't allowed to kill his opponent. Plus all that means is that different levels of Ki (Or Godly Ki. either or) grants differing levels of resistance."

This goes back to what I said about Hakai being an AP/Durability thing. If you're stronger than the hakai user, you won't be affected. It's kind of strange to interpret it as resistance to existance erasure from stronger Ki when in this same series (and other series) tanking things like fire/heat, electricity etc don't count as resistances due to AP differences between the users. But if it's interpreted like that then it's not a problem using verse equalization and it basically goes back to being an AP/Durability thing.


"Which was an utterly pathetic showing of Hakai since Beerus just blew it away from Goku afterwards."

"Again, pitiful showing of Hakai since Sidra visibly underestimated Freeza."

Indeed, it was pathetic, but it had the existance erasure "hax" in it, which was easily deflected, while the one without any hax bodied Frieza


I'm too lazy to make a content revision thread but while I agree Hakai is existance erasure, which is hax, I don't agree that it ignores durability. From what we've seen in the series (DBS anime), the Hakai has to be strong enough to overpower the target's durability first, and then their body and soul gets erased from existance. It doesn't just automatically neg durability. As we've seen with all the examples above. It's like any other standard attack in DB. If the AP overpowers the durability it can obliterate passed things like regen. Like the Kamehameha against Cell or the Spirit Bomb against Buu. What makes the hakai special is that it destroys every trace of the body and soul....erases the target from existance....IF, its able to overpower their durability first.
 
Yes thats the case but however in this wiki if you resist any hax with any means it is considered as resistence to haxes
 
JohnCenaNation said:
My area said:
Yes thats the case but however in this wiki if you resist any hax with any means it is considered as resistence to haxes
Click to expand...
How does AP/DP helps you resist hax?
Click to expand...
Becuase in DB hax is dependent in strength of ki so stronger ki can overpower his hax
 
Whenever Dragon Ball characters gets new transformation, I always yell at the creators telling them we need more hax! not we need more ap/dp.
 
JohnCenaNation said:
Whenever Dragon Ball characters gets new transformation, I always yell at the creators telling them we need more hax! not we need more ap/dp.
Click to expand...
personally i'd prefer than to explore their special abilities than straight hax, like using their ki manipulation to the fullest (ironic that they are masters of ki, but yamcha's spirit ball is one of the best ki manipulations ever due to his control) like creating structures or warping other's ki around or improving attacks like kienzan or taioken like hit improved his time skip and got new time powers

like make the taioken cut off the target senses or allow the instant transmission to teleport other people alone to bfr them or stuff
 
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