Son Goku (4) vs Sister Friede (1)

[Mr. Bambu]

So apparently ki is life energy.

We're acknowledging that Friede is very much dead, right?

 

[Warren_Valion]

So apparently ki is life energy.
We're acknowledging that Friede is very much dead, right?

I am pretty sure ghosts in Dragon Ball have Ki as well.

I mean, King Kai has Ki that goes senses and uses to teleport to, and he has been dead so long that it became a running joke that the characters never revive him.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Ghosts have the argument of the whole "they're made up of a soul, constitutes life force, etc whatever". Friede is a soulless husk that could well end up hollow if she isn't careful.

 

[Warren_Valion]

Ghosts have the argument of the whole "they're made up of a soul, constitutes life force, etc whatever". Friede is a soulless husk that could well end up hollow if she isn't careful.

Well, I guess she'd not be part of his KI sensing - but it seemed from the fight that she appears visible again before she goes in for the strike.

And with Goku's superhuman physical senses and IT, he should be able to dodge just fine - I think.

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

She only becomes visable the second she hits the player. And Blackflame Friede is much more aggressive and spams everything more often.

 

[Sderrick95]

Pretty sure Friede only resurrects on her own once. Phase two was because of Ariandel using the flame.

Not sure she'll beat Goku if she fights so linear. But I'm pretty sure Goku still holds the edge.

Has equal or superior striking strength and durability. Has the ability to use multiple Ki based attacks: Ki blasts, Super Kamehameha, Destructo Disc, and Kiai. Has Instant Transmission. Has Solar Flare. Has the Afterimage technique. Has way more martial arts skills.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Equal, I believe. Friede downscales slightly from High 4-C.

Yes. Variety of attacks is good but not ultimately a game changer. This feels like a biiiiit of a stretch.

Teleportation, discussed above. Afterimages aren't hard to overcome.

"Way more martial arts skills". Cool. Friede has way more scythe skills I guess so nyeh.

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

Not sure she'll beat Goku if she fights so linear. But I'm pretty sure Goku still holds the edge.

Hmm? She becomes much more aggressive and spammy in phase 3.

 

[Sderrick95]

I mean, she hasn't shown anything impressive at all that Goku couldn't deal with. Her attacks are way to exploitable.

I beg to differ, only those who specialize in speed based techniques successful and more oftenly, countered Afterimages. Nouva Shenron and Super 17 in GT replicate this particular feat on Instant Transmission. Meanwhile, Omega, with 6 of the 7 Dragon Balls, who still was their superior, couldn't even accurately hit them using just the Afterimage technique. So I don't see it as something anyone can just deal with easily.

Scythe skills that are again exploitable and easy to see. Goku has experience fighting enemies who uses weaponry as well, so it shouldn't be out of his world to be able to fight against her's either.

Edit: Okay I seen her 3rd phase, but even though she's spamming, I don't see anything else that changed: her flame trailer isn't fast and her Ice ability's range isn't all that great. One thing I will admit might be problems is her attacking while invisible.

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

Aka your saying her boss fight is easy.

 

[Sderrick95]

I'm not saying it'll be easy, but her general attack patterns aren't at all finesse enough to deal with Goku at this point, other than her invisible attacks of course.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I N C O R R E C T U S

Friede does specialize in speed-based techniques. She's the fastest in the game. It also seems to be the case of Goku just outspeeding his enemies, which is pointless here.

And martial arts that don't offer the range of a scythe. And Friede has experience fighting the Ashen One. Who literally can fight with anything in the game. Including fist weapons. Before you say "well yeah but they have different strategies", I am 9000% certain that Goku has never fought someone with the same strategies as Friede. So again, this point is ultimately the most redundant thing of all time.

Basically the argument for Goku relies on sensing her (which seems to not be the case as something he can reliably do), his martial arts somehow being considered better than scythes due to, and I quote, him dealing with weapons before. Okay. Afterimage creation, tackled above. And then the last thing of teleportation, which is basically the only thing he has from where I sit. Meanwhile Friede can come back to life once and has sporadic tactics including invisibility and AoE.

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

I forget, is her decapitation strike showcasted in that video? It's where she, while invisible, grabs the player with both scythes by the neck and well, pretty sure you can figure it out.

 

[Sderrick95]

Hmm, okay, I'll concede on the speed portion.

Goku's martial arts utilizes Ki though. His simple attack gestures from either punches or kicks, can be backed with Kiai attacks behind him. I highly doubt she can fight competently knowing her enemy is able to do this. Her invisibility is her biggest advantage to me honestly.

I'm just saying her scythe skills didn't seem so odd to the point Goku, a fighting prodigy, wouldn't be able to deal with it. I was merely just pointing out her using weapons don't give her an advantage on the degree you believe.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Her scythe attacks utilize ice which drain stamina and recuperation. Furthermore... what? He makes himself stronger, sure. Neat. The issue there is slight.

To this last bit... watch closely for the L2 attacks. And I agree. The modus operandi of attack isn't a huge advantage, be it fist or scythe. Claiming otherwise is foolish, to me.

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

Ah... what's the vote count?

 

[Sderrick95]

Well, if she can hit Goku, while invisibile, she can cause problems for sure if she can drain stamina and recuperation.

Not sure what I was supposed to be looking for in the video, can you give me the time at the part you're referring to?

 

[HST_Master]

Um where did she have her 1st self ress? Because looking at the boss fight It was dependant on the father I'd say her 1st Ress on her own was when she got her 2nd Scythe. Also her AoE honestly doesn't seem that impressive compared to Goku or her invisibility seeing as how her elemental slashes are still very much visible and readable. And even still he has Kiai to counter keeping her and her attacks away regardless. Also if hardpressed he absolutely will abuse his range and use ki attacks as shown with both 19(before he absorbed it) and Cell(Who threw up a barrier). He mixes his melee attacks with ki ones regardless. Heck Kamehameha is a guarantee usage at least once.

Afterimages will most certainly help, especially with opponents who aren't used to dealing with them.

 

[Sderrick95]

Um where did she have her 1st self ress? Because looking at the boss fight It was dependant on the father I'd say her 1st Ress on her own was when she got her 2nd Scythe. Also her AoE honestly doesn't seem that impressive compared to Goku or her invisibility seeing as how her elemental slashes are still very much visible and readable. And even still he has Kiai to counter keeping her and her attacks away regardless. Also if hardpressed he absolutely will abuse his range and use ki attacks as shown with both 19(before he absorbed it) and Cell(Who threw up a barrier). He mixes his melee attacks with ki ones regardless. Heck Kamehameha is a guarantee usage at least once.

Afterimages will most certainly help, especially with opponents who aren't used to dealing with them.

I agree with most of that, except for the invisibility part. If she approaches him from behind or something, I think she has a fair shot at dealing some damage. Though I don't think freezing him would work since he could just power up and shatter it. But that particular strategy will only work depending if she has some form of life energy that's different from Ki he can sense (not sure if Ki, Chakara etc is treated the same over here) or not. If he can't sense her, he's gonna find it kinda difficult, but I do remember Goku has enhanced biological senses such as hearing, sight and smell, so maybe he could use that to his advantage, granted if she has a smell to begin with.

 

[Akreious]

So are we just going to ignore the fact that Goku dodged Lightning as a child without the need for his eyesight, only using pure Enhanced Senses?

 

[Sderrick95]

I remember that scene and if he did do it by just leaning on his senses, then he should be able to react to Friede more easily than I thought.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

@HST It is the second rez my boy. She rezzes from normal Friede into Blackflame Friede.

The L2 attacks are those when two scythes are present for those attempting to watch the video.

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

I think I got the votes right.

Friede - 1 (Bambu)

Goku - 1 (Warren)

@Sderrick @Hst Master @Akreious Who you three voting for?

 

[Sderrick95]

@ApiesDeathbyLazors Goku for me.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

All of them are Goku, judging by their contributions and the fact I've never seen Akreious not vote for Dragon Ball

e y e s :

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

Friede - 1 (Bambu)

Goku - 2 (Warren, Sderrick)

I figure as much, but I see people argue for characters and then not vote all the time.

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

bump

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

bump

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

bump

 

[Akreious]

Of course I'm voting for Goku ;P

Mr. Bambu

Prepare to be amazed

Also I found a video of Goku dodging lightning using his senses.

This is a video of his success. However after dodging his first bolt, he gets overconfident and the 2nd bolt his him anyways. This Episode hinges on the fact that in the beginning, Goku had to quote "See the lightning with all of my senses" but he failed and got KO'd. He helped a little girl find her pet bird and learned that he shouldn't use his eyes at all and that he needs to "feel" the lightning rather than "see" it (Hence enhanced senses). He absolutely succeeds and only fails on the 2nd bolt because he was celebrating dodging the first bolt.

Popo sent him to get that crown thing because Goku had to learn to use his senses to dodge and attack; it would make him better overall. The point of this mission is to use your senses to become faster than lightning; and since Goku completed Popo's training, Goku logically succeeded in this endeavour. AKA he should now have the senses able to dodge lightning.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

See but that's still Dragon Ball, that doesn't count

 

[Xantospoc]

Goku has shown to be able to dodge in perfect dark during his fight with Yakon because he could percieve the minimum air movements

https://images.mangafreak.net/mangas/dragon_ball/dragon_ball_451/dragon_ball_451_12.jpg

Unless Friede has shown not to leave a gust of wind (and I remember you CAN find and hit Friede when invisible) her invisibility will do nothing

For this And the reasons above, I am voting for Goku to spank the nun

 

[Mr. Bambu]

...Again, Ki Sensing. Friede doesn't have a Ki equivalent.

 

[Xantospoc]

Where it's written air current is ki sensing?

Mind you we even had an invisible opponent in Super who COULD hide his ki and they pointed out they had other way of sensing him besides ki

 

[Mr. Bambu]

However they portray it or write it is fine but AFAIK the site has long debunked his senses in that way and most of his things are sensing ki of enemies around him- ki that Friede lacks.

 

[Xantospoc]

Goku has dispalyed repeatedly heigtnened senses, although in Super it's been pointed out there has been an excessive reliance on ki sensing.

WHich I would argue Z Goku and SUper Goku come off as different characters (I swear Super Goku suffers of ADD given how often lets his guard down in the middle of combat)

Plus the Ashen One could dodge her despite him LACKING extra senses against her (unless we consider target locking such)

 

[Mr. Bambu]

"I think they should be different characters" isn't viable

The latter is a good point but unless you knew what to look for (as in, you, the player, had done the fight a time or two already) you aren't going to know what the ice cloud drifting down is. The Ashen One can abuse any weakness because **** it, they've managed to die to everything and know what to look for.

 

[Jasonsith]

Cha la head cha la FRA

 

[Xantospoc]

Is viable because of different attitudes. You can't use Son Goku's attitude in Super where he has shown to be much more focused and careful in Z

Aren't going to know, yes,but when your opponent is invisible Goku is going to be on guard so if some ice drifts down, he would dodge. And again, he could get an idea by sensing the air around her

Also, Friede definitively has a soul

https://darksouls3.wiki.fextralife.com/Soul+of+Sister+Friede

 

[Mr. Bambu]

...that's not what I meant by clouds of ice. I don't think you've played DS3, or at least not the DLC including Friede- clouds of ice drift about on her trajectory. It pops up where she lands. And again, as far as I'm concerned that's ki-sensing. So no, thus far you've not proven Goku can sense her accurately.

From a lore point of view, that's just a name. Every boss regardless of opposing lore has a soul drop. Friede is the same sort of being as the Ashen One- they can live without souls.