Some Thoughts and Revisions(NNT)

[Majinere566]

Introduction​

So basically this CRT is Problems and Proposals with 7 Deadly sins scaling on this Forum, I'll first start with the problems

Chaos & Arthur Rating Reasonings​

I am currently fine with the High 4-C rating but the justifications for it is weird to me. For Chaos he has a High 4-C rating via creation and the reasonings are out of context.

Large Star level with Creation (The Supreme Deity and Demon King envy his creation power.

In Chapter 337, The Lady of the lake basically explains the beginnings of the world and the creation of the goddesses and the demons, I believe this where the rating comes from. Now my problem is that they where envious of his creation(humans) rather than his creation powers. They where envious because Humans were closer to chaos than both their creations and they feared that due to chaos liking humans more than the rest of his other creations he would steal their creations. Now this is what I'm proposing...

Chaos should just get a High 4-C rating due to Cath's statement.

Cath Palug says he could kill everything and everyone like mountains, countries, lakes and even stars with Chaos's power

Chaos is an entity that can both create and is capable of destroying.
As for Arthur i don't know why he has the High 4-C rating via one of his abilities? He should be High 4-C with Chaos powers and it should scale to his stats due to the context of the reasonings for the 4-C rating(being able to kill everything and everyone like mountains, countries, lakes and even stars with Chaos's power and backed up Cath's statement about the destruction of everything with a form using Chaos powers)

Range upgrade for Both Deities, Original Gowther ​

In My opinion due to the creations of the Demon Realm and Celestial Realm they should get an Interplanetary range via magic. As for the Original Gowther he should get an Interdimensional rating as it is implied that via a forbidden spell, he would alter the memories of Mael and it would affect everyone even the Gods who would be residing in their separate realms. And to make things consistent, even after getting sealed in a completely different realm(purgatory) The Demon King was still under the effects of the Original Gowther's spell.
(Accepted for Gowther, Rejected for the Gods)

Stamina Upgrade For Merlin​

This should be short. What I'm proposing here is infinite. Infinite Stamina on this forum is Characters with inexhaustible sources of energy at their disposal, allowing them to fight indefinitely, although not necessarily allowing them to ignore crippling pain or fight on through critical injuries. And it's pretty much stated that Merlin has an endless supply of magic
(DONE)

Tarmiel's Ocean(Yes again)​

So I recently did a re-calc of this feat and The low 6-B end was deemed usable by Mitch and Clover Dragon. We can hash out the scaling later in this thread.
(DONE)

Thanks For reading and if you have any contentions please feel free to comment.

 

[speedster352]

I am following and agree

 

[speedster352]

Quick question who would the tarmiel feat scale to?

 

[Majinere566]

Quick question who would the tarmiel feat scale to?

2C Estarossa as he's Equal to both Tarmiel and Sariel in power

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

High 4-C rating flat out shouldn't even exist

Cath doesn't say he'll destroy stars at all, all he says is that everything ends, which includes stars, this is no way translates to a High 4-C feat that he would perform

As well, we have no idea what even quanitifies as the Demon Realm and Celestial Realm and have no idea how the feat even happened, when it happened, how long it took

I mean I agree they could be planets, but this whole "they created entire stars because we see a star in the sky where these realms are is such a blatantly wanked assumption, it's ridiculous

So every High 4-C rating should be downgraded to 5-B IMO

Everything else is fine

 

[speedster352]

High 4-C rating flat out shouldn't even exist

Cath doesn't say he'll destroy stars at all, all he says is that everything ends, which includes stars, this is no way translates to a High 4-C feat

As well, we have no idea what even quanitifies as the Demon Realm and Celestial Realm and have no idea how the feat even happened, when it happened, how long it took

I mean I agree they could be planets, but this whole "they created entire stars because we see a star in the sky where these realms are is such a blatantly wanked assumption, it's ridiculous

So every High 4-C rating should be downgraded to 5-B IMO

Everything else is fine

You have point there but chaos literally floated in space so it's not far-fetched to say he created celestial bodies like a sun and a planet and Chaos surpasses the DK and SD creation powers and created other time-spaces like purgatory. My point is that chaos can be kept at 4c.

 

[speedster352]

2C Estarossa as he's Equal to both Tarmiel and Sariel in power

Just him? Or characters above him in power?

 

[Majinere566]

Cath doesn't say he'll destroy stars at all, all he says is that everything ends, which includes stars, this is no way translates to a High 4-C feat

He Indirectly states that he could do that when Arthur asked him the question.

"So you're telling me I might aswell let me eat you and be done with it"

"Bingo"

This implies he could do that

High 4-C rating flat out shouldn't even exist

As well, we have no idea what even quanitifies as the Demon Realm and Celestial Realm and have no idea how the feat even happened, when it happened, how long it took

Wasn't this settled in another thread? This would be derailing

 

[Majinere566]

Just him? Or characters above him in power?

obviously people above would scale

 

[speedster352]

obviously people above would scale

Sorry I was a little confused. Anyway that's great the sins could be brought back to 6-b although that could cause problems down the line(remember the mael feat) I agree with this

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

You have point there but chaos literally floated in space so it's not far-fetched to say he created celestial bodies like a sun and a planet

I mean we know he created Earth for a fact, so he at bare minimum is 5-B, but him being in space does not mean he creates stars, it's never said he can create or destroy them

and Chaos surpasses the DK and SD creation powers

Once again, it's a high ball to assume those realms include the stars as well... We once again don't know what qualifies as the two realms

and created other time-spaces like purgatory. My point is that chaos can be kept at 4c.

Chaos is never said to have ever created Purgatory

He Indirectly states that he could do that when Arthur asked him the question.

No, he says that everything eventually dies, so him destroying stuff in general shouldn't bother Arthur, he never says he can destroy stars

Wasn't this settled in another thread? This would be derailing

It's relevant to the OP and It's blatantly a false feat

 

[ByAsura]

I still think the reasoning behind Tarmiel's ocean being an actual ocean isn't enough at all, but I'm willing to accept it if everyone else agrees, or just gets the Databook scan that supposedly justifies it.

obviously people above would scale

This still cannot work in any way.

You have people like Drole and Gloxinia fighting and harming Chandler. You have the weaker Sins fighting against Demon King and Mael, etc.

Even if you re-use that evidence to say the Ten Commandments are somehow way stronger than they are in the present (they absolutely are not), there's no way you can add this without massively affecting previous scaling.

 

[Majinere566]

It's relevant to the OP and It's blatantly a false feat

What's relevant to the OP is the out of context stuff i brought up and i mentioned that i currently agree with it, if you have contentions with High 4-C rating itself you know the rules better than i do.

 

[Majinere566]

No, he says that everything eventually dies, so him destroying stuff in general shouldn't bother Arthur, he never says he can destroy stars

Arthur Explicitly asks him a question saying "So you're telling me I might aswell let me eat you and be done with it" in reference to Cath's previous statements and Cath answered with "Bingo" this implies that he can

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Arthur Explicitly asks him a question saying "So you're telling me I might aswell let me eat you and be done with it" in reference to Cath's previous statements and Cath answered with "Bingo" this implies that he can

That does not imply that at all... It's such a roundabount way to scale Chaos to destroying stars

 

[ByAsura]

Cath's outright saying Arthur's going to die in any number of ways, as everything in this universe does at some point, so he should just let Cath expedite the process of his death.

They'd still be Large Star level, this just isn't valid reasoning.

 

[StrawHatArslan]

CRT seems straightforward

 

[Majinere566]

I still think the reasoning behind Tarmiel's ocean being an actual ocean isn't enough at all, but I'm willing to accept it if everyone else agrees, or just gets the Databook scan that supposedly justifies it.

It being an actual ocean isn't accepted(wish it would be tho) what is being accepted is Dragongamer's end

You have people like Drole and Gloxinia fighting and harming Chandler. You have the weaker Sins fighting against Demon King and Mael, etc.

Drole and Glox can always get a possibly rating even though the whole sequence is weird. I don't get the other point? the weaker sins barely do anything to the demon king.

Even if you re-use that evidence to say the Ten Commandments are somehow way stronger than they are in the present (they absolutely are not), there's no way you can add this without massively affecting previous scaling.

The fact that commandments like Dereri can scale to a stronger tarmiel should imply they are weaker due to the seal which is consistent with the arguments i brought up before. And i thought of this if this argument ever came back

Tarmiel can get a Low 6-B rating and would get a 6-C durability rating

And Estarossa and beings above would still get their AP's upgraded

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

They'd still be Large Star level, this just isn't valid reasoning.

Once again, where is it said that the the created Demon Realm and Goddess Realm includes the stars and moons... I'm willing to accept them being planets, but assuming they made entire stars for just a planet is ridiculous

Especially considering Chaos only made Earth

 

[ByAsura]

It being an actual ocean isn't accepted(wish it would be tho) what is being accepted is Dragongamer's end

Ok, then.

Drole and Glox can always get a possibly rating even though the whole sequence is weird. I don't get the other point? the weaker sins barely do anything to the demon king.

Demon Meliodas curbstomped them individually.

If they were like 150x lower, they'd destroy them with absolute ease and be unable to contribute.

The fact that commandments like Dereri can scale to a stronger tarmiel should imply they are weaker due to the seal which is consistent with the arguments i brought up before. And i thought of this if this argument ever came back

The fact that Derieri can scale to a stronger Tarmiel via Combo Star should imply the Archangels just aren't as impressive as you thought, which the Mael fight does already.

Tarmiel can get a Low 6-B rating and would get a 6-C durability rating

They can withstand his beams, so this still doesn't make sense.

 

[Majinere566]

Cath's outright saying Arthur's going to die in any number of ways, as everything in this universe does at some point, so he should just let Cath expedite the process of his death.

They'd still be Large Star level, this just isn't valid reasoning.

No he states that Everyone dies(Not just arthur) and also included other things like Mountains, lakes, countries ,stars etc

That does not imply that at all... It's such a roundabount way to scale Chaos to destroying stars

That is implying...

 

[ByAsura]

Which is just a way of saying nothing is permanent, so why not let him end it there.

He even says it's all the same (referring to the process of death) and that it's inevitable.

Cath isn't saying he'll do it. He's saying something will eventually.

Once again, where is it said that the the created Demon Realm and Goddess Realm includes the stars and moons... I'm willing to accept them being planets, but assuming they made entire stars for just a planet is ridiculous

Especially considering Chaos only made Earth

If you can't see the real world inside the Demon Realm, I'm pretty sure the Realm (which is separate from the normal universe and Purgatory) would include stars and moons.

It's just stated that they made the Realm.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Which is just a way of saying nothing is permanent, so why not let him end it there.

If you can't see the real world inside the Demon Realm, I'm pretty sure the Realm (which is separate from the normal universe and Purgatory) would include stars and moons.

It's just stated that they made the Realm.

Tell me, what does realm mean?

It means either a kingdom or a field or domain of activity or interest

At no point is the Demon Realm and Goddess Realm said to be Dimensions... I mean for all we know, the two went to a separate dimension that previously existed and built societies and that's all it means, I can agree to them being planets, that makes sense to me, but assuming they created entire stars is ridiculous, they could literally just be separate planets in the same dimension, which is implied since we know that Sunshine is connected specifically to the sun and can be used in the Goddess Realm, implying the star in the Goddess Realm is the sun and therefore the Supreme Deity didn't create it

This high-balled assumption that they created entire stars is what I'm not ok with

 

[ByAsura]

If you go by fictional examples of Realms, like the Nine Realms or anything else, they do tend to be dimensions.

I think assuming that for the Goddess Realm makes sense because it's clearly just some sort of sky realm, but the Demon Realm has two moons and a star, which we've never seen in any dimension so far.

 

[Majinere566]

Demon Meliodas curbstomped them individually.

If they were like 150x lower, they'd destroy them with absolute ease and be unable to contribute.

The fact that Derieri can scale to a stronger Tarmiel via Combo Star should imply the Archangels just aren't as impressive as you thought, which the Mael fight does already.

They can withstand his beams, so this still doesn't make sense.

First Point: Then can't we just rule the feats that drole and glox preform as outliers as they are clearly inconsistent?

Second Point: What do you mean?

Third Point: That just makes the argument i brought up before much more consistent... They struggle against a 6-C character Post COED but are preforming much better than a much stronger opponent before getting sealed for 3000 years. The Archangels are unimpressive but they still are able to perfom such feats.

Fourth: That would just give them Low 6-B durability then?







I'm sorry but i can't understand the wordings in some of the messages

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

If you go by fictional examples of Realms, like the Nine Realms or anything else, they do tend to be dimensions.

That's a false equivalency

I think assuming that for the Goddess Realm makes sense because it's clearly just some sort of sky realm, but the Demon Realm has two moons and a star, which we've never seen in any dimension so far.

Well seeing different planets from Earth, we only see them as dots, so even if the realms were in the same dimension, you wouldn't necessarily see them clearly as they would be as small as the stars

 

[speedster352]

First Point: Then can't we just rule the feats that drole and glox preform as outliers as they are clearly inconsistent?

Second Point: What do you mean?

Third Point: That just makes the argument i brought up before much more consistent... They struggle against a 6-C character Post COED but are preforming much better than a much stronger opponent before getting sealed for 3000 years. The Archangels are unimpressive but they still are able to perfom such feats.

Fourth: That would just give them Low 6-B durability then?







I'm sorry but i can't understand the wordings in some of the messages

Could you add the lifting strength calc to the crt?

 

[Majinere566]

Could you add the lifting strength calc to the crt?

I haven't even made the blog yet

 

[ByAsura]

First Point: Then can't we just rule the feats that drole and glox preform as outliers as they are clearly inconsistent?

They're not inconsistent, though.

It's extremely consistent for the weaker Sins to have some, even if minimal, contribution against characters stronger than Tarmiel and Sariel.

And that's not even accounting for the fact that Tarmiel in a vessel only reached 88k to perform the Ocean feat.

Second Point: What do you mean?

The Demon King and SD would just obliterate the weaker Sins.

Third Point: That just makes the argument i brought up before much more consistent... They struggle against a 6-C character Post COED but are preforming much better than a much stronger opponent before getting sealed for 3000 years. The Archangels are unimpressive but they still are able to perfom such feats.

Derieri only fights Demon Meliodas, Post-Timeskip Meliodas, Estarossa and the Archangels, so no your point isn't validated. Also, she's at full power by the time of the Mael fight.

I can potentially see the Commandments being more than a smidgen stronger than what we see at the very end of the Ten Commandments Arc, but going from needing 53 enhanced blows to cripple Meliodas to scaling to the Ocean feat is ridiculous.

This is also contradicted by the fact that Estarossa alone was somewhat weaker than the Archangels, and yet Derieri is inferior to him.

Fourth: That would just give them Low 6-B durability then?

So they have Low 6-B durability and AP, which invalidates the entire point you're trying to make.

I'm sorry but i can't understand the wordings in some of the messages

I can see where the confusion is coming from. I'll try to use more names than pronouns.

That's a false equivalency

I don't see why it's any less valid than the dictionary if fiction ignores it by large.

Well seeing different planets from Earth, we only see them as dots, so even if the realms were in the same dimension, you wouldn't necessarily see them clearly as they would be as small as the stars

You can see one moon just as clearly as the normal moon on Britannia. So this doesn't make sense.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

I don't see why it's any less valid than the dictionary if fiction ignores it by large.

I'm saying we need more than it just be called realm and world to include the stars and moon inside as part of the world and realm created

You can see one moon just as clearly as the normal moon on Britannia. So this doesn't make sense.

I don't mean they are both Earth, I mean it's a separate planet in the same solar system, like for all we know, the Demon World could just be Pluto, you can't see Pluto or it's Moons from Earth with the naked eye, but that doesn't mean they are in a separate dimension, not seeing the Demon World or it's moons from Brittannia clearly doesn't mean they aren't in the same dimension

 

[ByAsura]

Ok, I don't really agree with it, but I get your point.

 

[ByAsura]

I should mention that I'm perfectly fine with somewhat backscaling Demon Meliodas to vessel Tarmiel.

The Danafor feat had some scaling problems with Prime Meliodas anyway, and this solves a lot of scaling problems I have.

I'm not trying to invalidate the Ocean calculation this time.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

I should mention that I'm perfectly fine with somewhat backscaling Demon Meliodas to vessel Tarmiel.

This one is iffy to me, since we know he's above 60,000, but below 142,000, which conincides with 88,000 Tarmiel

In general, I would say a "Likely" or "Possibly" rating makes sense

 

[speedster352]

Ok, I don't really agree with it, but I get your point.

Actually, damaging a character doesn't always mean you can scale to or above them just saying.

 

[ByAsura]

Actually, damaging a character doesn't always mean you can scale to or above them just saying.

It's not just damaging them, it's withstanding all their blows. And from stronger characters no less. Also, it may not mean direct scaling, but being 150x lower than them is more than a little ridiculous.

This one is iffy to me, since we know he's above 60,000, but below 142,000, which conincides with 88,000 Tarmiel

In general, I would say a "Likely" or "Possibly" rating makes sense

Seems unnecessary, unless they're way, way lower than these characters.

At best, I'd say it's a couple Full Counter multipliers lower.

 

[Majinere566]

What about the other things in the OP do y'all agree?

 

[ByAsura]

I think at least Gowther's range and Merlin's infinite stamina should be fine.

 

[Majinere566]

I should mention that I'm perfectly fine with somewhat backscaling Demon Meliodas to vessel Tarmiel.

The Danafor feat had some scaling problems with Prime Meliodas anyway, and this solves a lot of scaling problems I have.

I'm not trying to invalidate the Ocean calculation this time.

Wait what does this mean?

 

[ByAsura]

Just backscale everyone from Tarmiel.

It's not like BoS characters even come remotely close to base Galand with their absolute best abilities (barring Dreyfus' most powerful Break), let alone someone like Unsealed Base/Demon Meliodas.

 

[Majinere566]

Just backscale everyone from Tarmiel.

It's not like BoS characters even come remotely close to base Galand with their absolute best abilities (barring Dreyfus' most powerful Break), let alone someone like Unsealed Base/Demon Meliodas.

So someTen Commandments get possibly low 6-b ratings?