Some questions about DCEU Superman

[RanaProGamer]

Now the statement of Batman saying that Superman is stronger than a planet has been bugging for a while. Batman knows first hand how powerful Superman since even he was aware of him shifting a tectonic plate. My question is why would he state that about a dead Superman since he was only able to reach that level of power after being resurrected. The way Batman said it, he said it in a way that Superman was already 'stronger than a planet' and that his dead body could withstand it. Keep a note of his words, he said 'what if you were stronger than a planet' not 'what if you became stronger than a planet'. Does this mean that Superman was always High 6-A?

My other question is why is Superman scaled from the Mother Boxes. No statement says that he was empowered by it, only brought back to life by it since it was the only thing capable of doing so. The only reason he stomped the Justice League was that he was at full power. In BvS, he was heavily weakened by the Kryptonite, so Doomsday and WW don't scale to him in full power. Also, Superman didn't tank a full blast from the Mother Boxes as the explosion wasn't going to terraform the Earth, but did knock down Cyborg and Superman. This is also shown when Zeus separated the Mother Boxes and caused the same shockwave we see when Cyborg and Superman separate it. So High 6-A durability doesn't make much sense since Cyborg also survived it.

Last question, why is the Mother Box High 6-A, I get that it was going to terraform the Earth but there was no defined timeframe. It is the same case with the Bifrost and Infinity Gauntlet from MCU. The Bifrost can destroy a planet, but its timeframe is unknown. The IG can reduce the universe to atoms but its timeframe is unknown. It's the same case here for the Mother Boxes.

 

[Antvasima]

You can ask some experienced and active members listed in the DC Extended Universe page to comment here.

 

[RanaProGamer]

You can ask some experienced and active members listed in the DC Extended Universe page to comment here.

Ok, thanks

 

[Revan_Laha]

I think it's an outlier

 

[Antvasima]

@Rana

No problem.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Yeah I vaguely remember these issues being brought up before but revisions were rejected.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Just go to the DC Extended Universe topic and there's like 10 CRTs of back-and-forth arguing about Superman, the Old Gods, Ares, Wonder Woman, etc.

 

[RanaProGamer]

Just go to the DC Extended Universe topic and there's like 10 CRTs of back-and-forth arguing about Superman, the Old Gods, Ares, Wonder Woman, etc.

Those discussions aren't active at all.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

I know. Just saying that this has been an issue that was never resolved.

I don't mind carrying out these changes, but let's see what other people say.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

You should ask Matthew to comment.

 

[RanaProGamer]

You should ask Matthew to comment.

I messaged him, he hasn't replied yet.

 

[Hellbeast1]

I'll comment here later (I'm out right now)

 

[Hellbeast1]

Firstly I'd say remove the stronger then a planet thing both for the reasons you stated and also it's way too vague to be reliable.

Other things on the agenda

The 6-C tier needs to be removed, absolutely nothing actually supports it (Zeus whipping up an island is 7-A to Low 6-B and the actual 6-C is High 6-C)

Speaking of the tiering we need to find out where DD's feat was accepted or if it needs a recalc (I've heard it's not accepted and if so I've seen calcs at Small Country for it)

Speaking of Country Tier we need to remove it from the pages. The tectonic feat was agreeed as too unreliable to use and this we chose a downgrade which never went through.

I'd also remove the High 6-A tier. He's boosted by the boxes but nothing says he scales, especially since the world shaping is over time, nothing proves its durability scales and Cyborg explicitly manipulated a nanosecond of weakness in the Unity with his technopoathy and Superman's strength.

Ares also does need a weakened key for reasons stated before (that really weren't debunked or even adequately answered at all)

TLDR: the DCEU is a bigger mess then it has any right to be

 

[RanaProGamer]

Firstly I'd say remove the stronger then a planet thing both for the reasons you stated and also it's way too vague to be reliable.
Other things on the agenda

The 6-C tier needs to be removed, absolutely nothing supports it (the only remotely island level feat is 7-A and the actual 6-C is High 6-C)

Speaking of the tiering we need to find out where DD's feat was accepted or if it needs a recalc (I've heard it's not accepted and if so I've seen calcs at 6-B for it)

I'd also remove the High6-A tier. He's boosted by the boxes but nothing says he scales, especially since the world shaping is over time, nothing proves its durability scales and Cyborg explicitly manipulated a nanosecond of weakness in the Unity with his technopoathy and Superman's strength.

Ares also does need a weakened key for reasons stated before (that really weren't debunked or even adequately answered at all)

The way I see it is this:

Superman: At least Mountain level to Island level, likely Country level (Capable of harming Doomsday while heavily weakened, who knocked around Wonder Woma, and effortlessly moved a tectonic plate to prevent an earthquake) | likely higher (Empowered by the Mother Boxes. Stronger than his previous state, effortlessly stomped Steppenwolf).

Wonder Woman: Building level+ (Vastly superior to most, if not all, Amazons, who have fought Parademons. Destroyed the top of a Church), likely far higher (Barely fought against an extremely casual Ares) | At least Mountain level (Killed Ares after embracing her true nature as the daughter of Zeus, albeit the latter was far weaker than before. Comparable to Superma. Sliced Doomsday's arm with her sword who was able to tank a nuke that was going to destroy Metropolis. Briefly held her own against a resurrected Superma, though lost ultimately).

Aquaman: Mountain level (Fought Steppenwolf head on and kept up with him. Comparable to Wonder Woma in strength. Fought against Orm who was comparable to him and can cause tsunamis that can topple aircraft carriers and leave a large junk of trash on land as a warning shot.) | likely higher with Trident of Atlantis (His new Trident of Atlantis is far superior to his old Quindent, as it broke Orm's trident which broke his old Quindent. The Trident of Atlantis seemingly sank Atlantis and dried up the Sahara Desert, though it is unknown how long it took to do so).

Cyborg: Mountain level (Harmed Steppenwolf with plasma blasts, contributed to separating the Mother Boxes, which also required sizeable effort from Superma).

Doomsday: Mountain level (Started out as strong as a weakened Superma and kept getting stronger through its absorption powers. Reached its peak after absorbing the energy of a nuclear missile and was capable of fending off both Superman and Wonder Woma at once with ease).

Black Manta: Street level (Employs technology that, while advanced, is considered "human-level" by Aquaman) | Possibly Mountain level (Battled Aquama and considerably wounded him during their fight, albeit the latter didn't have his Trident).

Ares: Country level (Mortally wounded Zeus in single combat, who created the island of Themyscira with his dying breath and separated the Mother Boxes with ease whereas Superman on his own couldn't) | Mountain level (Far weaker than before due to his injuries. Comparable to heavy hitters such as Wonder Woma).

Zeus: Country level (Created the island of Themyscira with his dying breath, which is at least this big, likely far larger. Defeated Ares and left him wounded and weakened for millennia. Severely wounded Steppenwolf with a lightning bolt. Separated the Mother Boxes with one lightning bolt whereas Superman on his own couldn't).

Steppenwolf: Mountain level (Fought the entire Justice League head-on. Capable of defeating Wonder Woma and Aquama. Should be comparable to Doomsday). Can ignore some durability with the Electro-Axe (Can turn people into Parademons).

Orm: Mountain level (Can trade blows with Base form Aquama and broke his trident. Superior to Aquama. Caused worldwide tsunamis).

Mera: Mountain level (As a member of the Atlantean royalty, she should be comparable to Aquama before becoming the King of Atlantis. Defeated several Men of War soldiers, including general Murk. Managed to push back Steppenwolf with a water blast).

Atlanna: Mountain level (Should be comparable to her sons. Defeated several Men of War soldiers).

Nereus: Mountain level (Should be comparable to Orm and superior to Mera).

This would also change their durabilites. As for speed, I have no problem with it.

 

[M3X_2.0]

Aquaman has some High 6-C feats

 

[JackJoyce]

Batman saying that Superman is stronger than a planet

It can literally mean anything. His body is stronger than the surface of a planet. That's probably what Batman implied

In BvS, he was heavily weakened by the Kryptonite, so Doomsday and WW don't scale to him in full power.

The fight took place after he sundipped in space. There was no visible weakness

The other points I fully agree. DCEU Superman has no proper feats or statements to suggest he's High 6-A

 

[RanaProGamer]

Aquaman has some High 6-C feats

With or without Trident of Atlantis?

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Without

 

[RanaProGamer]

Without

What's the feat?

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Karathen stuff iirc. One was him getting smacked while in the center of the world.

 

[RanaProGamer]

Karathen stuff iirc. One was him getting smacked while in the center of the world.

But wasn't Karathen holding back a lot? From the looks of the fight, Karathen was only attempting to make sure that he gave up. You could say that Aquaman is High 6-C with the Trident of Atlantis scaling from Karathen, but nothing states that either.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

It was based on the KE of the tentacle smacking him in the scene so holding back isn't really an argument against it.

 

[JackJoyce]

Is there any calc for it though?

 

[Cropfist]

I agree with this.

 

[Hellbeast1]

There's a drag calc Spino did that put Karathen casually at High 6-C (Orm survives a glancing hit as well)

Plus I doubt the kilometre sized man eating Kaiju is big on holding back

Other feats that could go with calcs are:

Strppenwolf's volcanic strikes (there's one already but it's a massive lowball thanks to my error)

Atlan's Trident shattering Atlantis

Manta's mass energy conversion (his weapons convert sea water to pure plasma)

Supes tanking the World Engine while weakened

Ares lightning making a fat crater in what is presumably cement

Some of Batman's feats would be nice but not a big deal

 

[RanaProGamer]

There's a drag calc Spino did that put Karathen casually at High 6-C (Orm survives a glancing hit as well)
Plus I doubt the kilometre sized man eating Kaiju is big on holding back

Other feats that could go with calcs are:

Strppenwolf's volcanic strikes (there's one already but it's a massive lowball thanks to my error)

Atlan's Trident shattering Atlantis

Manta's mass energy conversion (his weapons convert sea water to pure plasma)

Supes tanking the World Engine while weakened

Didn't Supes get weakened because of the World Engine?

 

[Hellbeast1]

@Rana nice though I have some recommendations

Supes shouldn't be 6-B for reasons I've edited into my post

Everyone of note should be At Least Mountain scaling to Zeus on his deathbed making a 500 megaton feat

Cyborg should just be mentioned as having staggered Wolf (the Unity was more hax then anything else)

I'd also suggest a likely since he doesn't do much but stagger Steppenwolf and get heavily damaged by him

Speaking of the Unity Supes shouldn't get it either

I'd cut Orm from Arthur's to remove the circular scaling (Speaking of cutting I'd add he made Wolf bleed)

Ares should be at least Building, higher with certain attacks (scales somewhat above Wondy and has lightning that one shots him as well as creating huge craters)

Atlanna should be possibly since she never fights anyone on their level but should be there (I'd cut the MOW since they're kinda fodder)

Manta should specifically be mentioned as using bladed weaponry and automatic weapons rather then just saying he has good tech

I'd rather say Manta is straight up 7-A or wherever we put the DCEU since he hurt Arthur real good but Likely is absolutely fine

 

[RanaProGamer]

@Rana nice though I have some recommendations
Supes shouldn't be 6-B for reasons I've edited into my post

Everyone of note should be At Least Mountain scaling to Zeus on his deathbed making a 500 megaton feat

Cyborg should just be mentioned as having staggered Wolf (the Unity was more hax then anything else)

I'd also suggest a likely since he doesn't do much but stagger Steppenwolf and get heavily damaged by him

Speaking of the Unity Supes shouldn't get it either

I'd cut Orm from Arthur's to remove the circular scaling (Speaking of cutting I'd add he made Wolf bleed)

Ares should be at least Building, higher with certain attacks (scales somewhat above Wondy and has lightning that one shots him as well as creating huge craters)

Atlanna should be possibly since she never fights anyone on their level but should be there (I'd cut the MOW since they're kinda fodder)

Manta should specifically be mentioned as using bladed weaponry and automatic weapons rather then just saying he has good tech

I'd rather say Manta is straight up 7-A or wherever we put the DCEU since he hurt Arthur real good but Likely is absolutely fine

It actually kinda makes sense for the shifting feat to not be reliable so I guess we can scale Supes to Zeus since the only 2 feats done by Zeus is making an island and seperating the Mother Boxes.

So I guess everyone who is Country-level gets downgraded to At least Mountain level. While the high tiers like post ressurection Superman, Prime Ares and Prime Zeus should simply be Mountain level for Zeus casually performing the Mountain level feat.

Also, I think Building level Ares is to much of a downgrade, I mean there is no proof that WW got stronger in between WW and BvS. Mountain level seems fine since she was able to hurt Doomsday who tanked a City level nuke.

Rest I agree.

 

[Ionliosite]

TLDR: the DCEU is a bigger mess then it has any right to be

We know this movies are a bigger mess than they have the right to, no need to remind us.

 

[Hellbeast1]

@Rana no everyone is at least Mountain (remember Zeus himself was on the verge of death.

And WW doesn't have anything between the films I agree (well so far) her unlocking her power happened in WW, Ares only overpowered her pre climax form and thus his weak form can only be about that (though he does make a storm with his presence so there's that)

@Ion do you have Reptilian Physiology?

Because that was cold blooded

 

[RanaProGamer]

@Rana no everyone is at least Mountain (remember Zeus himself was on the verge of death.
And WW doesn't have anything between the films I agree (well so far) her unlocking her power happened in WW, Ares only overpowered her pre climax form and thus his weak form can only be about that (though he does make a storm with his presence so there's that)

@Ion do you have Reptilian Physiology?

Because that was cold blooded

I see, there is actually a video that does the Island creation calc in a different manner https://youtu.be/SxEcbpAhUSk?t=95 what do you think?

 

[Hellbeast1]

it seems fine but I'm no expert sadly

Also while I'm here apparently Atlantis was a continent so that's fun

 

[RanaProGamer]

it seems fine but I'm no expert sadly

Also while I'm here apparently Atlantis was a continent so that's fun

Where does it say that it is a continent? At best I'm seeing it as a country broken down into a city

 

[AnonymousBlank]

The Aquaman guide or bonus features. My friend has a scan of it I believe so I'll see if I can find it.

Edit: Here it is

 

[RanaProGamer]

The Aquaman guide or bonus features. My friend has a scan of it I believe so I'll see if I can find it.

Woah. Honestly feels like an outlier. I mean the movie showed that it was destroyed in a matter of minutes. Though from the looks of it, Atlantis was stated to have sunk meaning the Trident only destroyed the foundation that was holding it from below. Like a difference between destroying a ship and sinking it.

 

[Hellbeast1]

I mean for sure all we know it scales to no one but the Karathen and Arthur (we should work out who else though)

Plus I got a calc for sinking an India sized sub continent done which yielded just over baseline High 6-B

My suggestion is we pixel scale what we see as a low end and use something like Greenland or Australia as a high end

@By thanks was trying to find that since Key Issues mentioned

 

[RanaProGamer]

I mean for sure all we know it scales to no one but the Karathen and Arthur (we should work out who else though)
Plus I got a calc for sinking an India sized sub continent done which yielded just over baseline High 6-B

My suggestion is we pixel scale what we see as a low end and use something like Greenland or Australia as a high end

@By thanks was trying to find that since Key Issues mentioned

I feel like the size of the Sahara Desert could be used since its the only place mentioned that was stated to have dried up because of it.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

@Hellbeast

Lol at the irony, the friend was Garrick. Man made a whole server of scans and scaling to help with his videos.

@Rana

Can we really use the full Sahara? Its expanded quite a bit so calculating its size way back when would be the best bet imo.

 

[KingEzran]

Following

 

[Hellbeast1]

I mean it would had been a thousand years so not too different

Also what a coincidence lol (Anything else we can use in the guide)