Some Mario Hax Removal

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

71 Layered Power Nullification

The basis for this is that Power Stars can nullify Bowser's spatial manipulation by removing the infinite corridor once the player has 71 stars. This is actually false, and as Bowser himself explains in Mario 64 DS, he simply removes the infinite staircase himself, only allowing Mario into the final level. For everyone else, regardless of how many stars they get, the staircase remains unchanged.

Resistance to Sleep Manipulation

Mario and Luigi are treated as being able to resist the Dreambeats, which put everyone else on the island to sleep. Except this isn't even true, because we can demonstrably see them nodding off and needing to be woken up. In the scan currently being used, Starlow says "you guys are totally passing out!", and the description of the video also points out that they were affected. While one could argue that they were able to shrug it off briefly, and therefore have a limited resistance to it, this also isn't true, as we see that the Dreambeats only start affecting the other inhabitants of the island after Mario retreats to the Dream World.

 

[CloverDragon03]

71 Layered Power Nullification

The basis for this is that Power Stars can nullify Bowser's spatial manipulation by removing the infinite corridor once the player has 71 stars. This is actually false, and as Bowser himself explains in Mario 64 DS, he simply removes the infinite staircase himself, only allowing Mario into the final level. For everyone else, regardless of how many stars they get, the staircase remains unchanged.

I'm assuming the line of reasoning is that Bowser still activates the endless staircase even if you have the right number of Power Stars if you're not playing as Mario?

Makes sense to me

Resistance to Sleep Manipulation

Mario and Luigi are treated as being able to resist the Dreambeats, which put everyone else on the island to sleep. Except this isn't even true, because we can demonstrably see them nodding off and needing to be woken up. In the scan currently being used, Starlow says "you guys are totally passing out!", and the description of the video also points out that they were affected. While one could argue that they were able to shrug it off briefly, and therefore have a limited resistance to it, this also isn't true, as we see that the Dreambeats only start affecting the other inhabitants of the island after Mario retreats to the Dream World.

I'm not sure about the last part, as that could also just be the Dreambeats having finally traveled said distance after Mario entered the Dream World

That said, a full-on resistance has to go. They were clearly affected by it to some degree at least

 

[Ikelaggan]

I'm in agreement with most of everything here

 

[Shmooply]

This is payback for when the Endless Stairway spooked me as a toddler.
Agreed.

 

[Kirbonic_Pikmin]

71 Layered Power Nullification

The basis for this is that Power Stars can nullify Bowser's spatial manipulation by removing the infinite corridor once the player has 71 stars. This is actually false, and as Bowser himself explains in Mario 64 DS, he simply removes the infinite staircase himself, only allowing Mario into the final level. For everyone else, regardless of how many stars they get, the staircase remains unchanged.

Resistance to Sleep Manipulation

Mario and Luigi are treated as being able to resist the Dreambeats, which put everyone else on the island to sleep. Except this isn't even true, because we can demonstrably see them nodding off and needing to be woken up. In the scan currently being used, Starlow says "you guys are totally passing out!", and the description of the video also points out that they were affected. While one could argue that they were able to shrug it off briefly, and therefore have a limited resistance to it, this also isn't true, as we see that the Dreambeats only start affecting the other inhabitants of the island after Mario retreats to the Dream World.

I of course agree with this, as I helped with pointing these out and providing the scans lol.

I’d also add that Luigi is quite literally put into a deep slumber by the Dreambeats as well. As soon as Mario enters his Dream world, the Dreambeats power is so great that the Dream portal closes due to Luigi being put into a deep slumber. The bros are completely affected by it.

 

[AStrangeverse]

agree with the power star bit

hella disagree on that dreambeat shit

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

hella disagree on that dreambeat shit

okay but like

why

The story repeatedly makes it very clear how Mario and Luigi were affected; It's why they needed to escape into the Dream World, we visibly see them going to sleep, we're outright told they're being affected, and the dream portal closing is a direct byproduct of Luigi being affected. Saying that they weren't affected takes all cohesion out of the narrative, it simply wouldn't make sense.

 

[AStrangeverse]

for one, dunno why you're including Luigi when he should be outta the equation. guy immediately dozed off, even with the shouting and nudges from Starlow, while Mario only really needed like-

a few wake-up calls to remain awake

I get the whole narrative bit, but ya can't just ignore what's visibly shown. at most, I'd say Mario can get a Limited resistance, since he can hold it off much longer than literally anyone else that fell asleep off rip (i.e Luigi and Bowser's minions)

 

[AStrangeverse]

and you two kill me with these downgrades

 

[Shmooply]

and you two kill me with these downgrades

Here king have this.

while Mario only really needed like-

a few wake-up calls to remain awake

I get the whole narrative bit, but ya can't just ignore what's visibly shown. at most, I'd say Mario can get a Limited resistance, since he can hold it off much longer than literally anyone else that fell asleep off rip (i.e Luigi and Bowser's minions)

He needed constant wake-up calls from Starlow to remain awake. Let's actually follow what the narrative shows.
At first, the dreambeats are only emitted a small amount through the speakers, which is why Mario wasn't affected at first after leaving the place where Bowser was. Bowser then stated that the brothers couldn't outrun the beats, and later on the dreambeats spread further throughout the region, and they just so happen to start affecting Mario again.

 

[AStrangeverse]

yeah, but like-

so?

anyone else who isn't Starlow, Dreambert, Antasma, and Bowser (covering his "ears") falls asleep immediately, yet Mario can still endure it. Luigi couldn't even open his eyes despite the incessant shouting and nudging from Starlow

so like-

bro

 

[Shmooply]

falls asleep immediately

Except they don't. They're fine when the dreambeats play for a few seconds, and then start to get drowsy, before finally falling asleep. Mario immediately goes back to sleep after Starlow wakes him up for the first time. The same thing happens again when the dreambeats start spreading further.

 

[AStrangeverse]

Except they don't. They're fine when the dreambeats play for a few seconds, and then start to get drowsy, before finally falling asleep. Mario immediately goes back to sleep after Starlow wakes him up for the first time. The same thing happens again when the dreambeats start spreading further.

except he doesn't. most that implies is drowsiness, unlike the others who collapse onto the ground after a few seconds of exposure, which is a heavy indicator that they're actually sleeping. Mario doesn't collapse like them, so he ain't schleep


none of them even sleep standing up

 

[Nierre]

meh limited is probably fine.

He was only able to fully wake up due to Starlow waking him up, but he wasn't fully asleep either.

Mario is clearly fighting the sleep manipulation by bobbing his head back and forth, so he's not fully asleep, aka he's drowsy.

Frankly, it's not even a meaningful resistance anyway. He's technically incapacited lmao

Agree with the Power Null (71 Layered PN is fricken nuts dude. Typical video game shenanigans)

 

[SamanPatou]

Agree with both, even if you folks want Mario to have it limited, it's fine either to me, just specify that he was being affected almost completely and couldn't really fight it off.

 

[Dust_Collector]

I think Mario having a limited resistance at most is fine given he managed to stave off sleeping long enough to enter Luigis dream portal, but thats about it, clearly ain't a full on proper resistance. Also agree with the power null stuff.

 

[Kirbonic_Pikmin]

and you two kill me with these downgrades

I mean we’re kinda sitting on some others we want to do because there’s so many other revisions going on atm so keep an eye out for more I suppose. Not out of malice but things keep appearing on the profile / getting pushed for that I disagree with so I have to stick my head in at that point

I think Mario having a limited resistance at most is fine given he managed to stave off sleeping long enough to enter Luigis dream portal, but thats about it, clearly ain't a full on proper resistance. Also agree with the power null stuff.

I kinda disagree with the notion of it being limited either considering he was outright going to pass out and fall asleep from it until Starlow woke him up, only after that was he able to stay awake for a bit longer unimpeded. It doesn’t really feel like solid founding for a resistance when he had to be nudged to even not be immediately knocked out

 

[Foxthefox1000]

Those other things will hopefully not pass because I've already heard it all and disagree but whatever

As for this, fine I guess

 

[Armorchompy]

71 Layered Power Nullification

The basis for this is that Power Stars can nullify Bowser's spatial manipulation by removing the infinite corridor once the player has 71 stars. This is actually false, and as Bowser himself explains in Mario 64 DS, he simply removes the infinite staircase himself, only allowing Mario into the final level. For everyone else, regardless of how many stars they get, the staircase remains unchanged.

yeah, this makes sense.

Resistance to Sleep Manipulation

Mario and Luigi are treated as being able to resist the Dreambeats, which put everyone else on the island to sleep. Except this isn't even true, because we can demonstrably see them nodding off and needing to be woken up. In the scan currently being used, Starlow says "you guys are totally passing out!", and the description of the video also points out that they were affected. While one could argue that they were able to shrug it off briefly, and therefore have a limited resistance to it, this also isn't true, as we see that the Dreambeats only start affecting the other inhabitants of the island after Mario retreats to the Dream World.

This also seems fair. I think limited resistance for Mario based on the logic that he seems to be more easily broken out of the effect is fine. Honestly I would be surprised if there isn't a feat for proper sleep resistance in any of the games.

 

[ZespeonGalaxy]

Yeah the layered hax can go idk where that came from,


Limited sleep resistance makes sense

 

[JJSliderman]

I assumed the reasoning for the layered part is because Bowser can make doors that require X amount of stars, and said doors do not open unless you have the right Star count, even when that Star count opened a previous door, hence being hierarchical seals.

If that’s the case isn’t it still 51 layered cuz of the 50-star door.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Limited resistance is fine if that's what most people agree with.

 

[Eseseso]

Agree with removing 71 layers, and with changing sleep resistance to limited.

 

[ZespeonGalaxy]

Those other things will hopefully not pass because I've already heard it all and disagree but whatever

Its cmon vsbw practice to nuke everything mario profiles get

 

[Lou_change]

71 Layered Power Nullification

The basis for this is that Power Stars can nullify Bowser's spatial manipulation by removing the infinite corridor once the player has 71 stars. This is actually false, and as Bowser himself explains in Mario 64 DS, he simply removes the infinite staircase himself, only allowing Mario into the final level. For everyone else, regardless of how many stars they get, the staircase remains unchanged.

Agreed

While one could argue that they were able to shrug it off briefly, and therefore have a limited resistance to it, this also isn't true, as we see that the Dreambeats only start affecting the other inhabitants of the island after Mario retreats to the Dream World.

I am pretty sure that is because sound has to travel people where reacting to suddenly hearing the song they last longer then the elite trio and kamek

 

[Magicomethkuon]

Agree with the thread, if help was necessary to stay awake it shouldn't count as limited even.

 

[JJSliderman]

Can Mario still have 51 layers cuz of the 50 star door?

 

[CloverDragon03]

Can Mario still have 51 layers cuz of the 50 star door?

I would assume so if nothing indicates it’s just Bowser himself undoing it or something of the like

 

[Armorchompy]

Isn't that just sealing negation rather than general powernull?

 

[JJSliderman]

Whatever it is, it should go down to 51 layers, I don’t think there’s anything saying there Star doors are being undone by Bowser in the same way as the endless stairs (seeing as you can enter the endless stairs without the requisite stars but can’t open the other star doors)

 

[Armorchompy]

Yeah I would definitely say that's the stars' doing. I'm not sure if every star would be a layer, I remember some discussion about similar topics, but I don't really know what the conclusion was, so.

 

[JJSliderman]

Isn’t layers just “it works on something that previously resisted the same hax type”

That’s kind of power stars, higher star doors negate the power of power stars which opened previous star doors and necessitate a higher star level

 

[Armorchompy]

I dunno if every single star is a layer when it comes to hax, though. Like, is every Poison Immunity potion you drink in an RPG a "layer" of poison resistance, if they stack? There's verses where power allows you to resist hax from weaker people, which if taken this way would mean thousands of layers of resistances for god tiers.

Again I don't really know what the cutoff point is there, I think we have some standards but I don't know what they are.

 

[Uuber1]

Agree with all

 

[ZespeonGalaxy]

Idek what stars were supposed to be. #tbh

 

[Lou_change]

I am pretty sure that is because sound has to travel people where reacting to suddenly hearing the song they last longer then the elite trio and kamek either way

bumping this and the thread

 

[DanTheEyeMan01]

was this applied or?

 

[Omnificence]

Idek what stars were supposed to be. #tbbasis

Where do I even begin?

71 Layered Power Nullification

The basis for this is that Power Stars can nullify Bowser's spatial manipulation by removing the infinite corridor once the player has 71 stars. This is actually false, and as Bowser himself explains in Mario 64 DS, he simply removes the infinite staircase himself, only allowing Mario into the final level. For everyone else, regardless of how many stars they get, the staircase remains unchanged.

Just call it Sealing Negation.

Resistance to Sleep Manipulation

Mario and Luigi are treated as being able to resist the Dreambeats, which put everyone else on the island to sleep. Except this isn't even true, because we can demonstrably see them nodding off and needing to be woken up. In the scan currently being used, Starlow says "you guys are totally passing out!", and the description of the video also points out that they were affected. While one could argue that they were able to shrug it off briefly, and therefore have a limited resistance to it, this also isn't true, as we see that the Dreambeats only start affecting the other inhabitants of the island after Mario retreats to the Dream World.

Make it a Minor Resistance.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

oh i forgor about this

Just call it Sealing Negation.

That's already what it is, we're just removing the layers attached to it.

Make it a Minor Resistance.

nah

 

[JJSliderman]

It should still have layers, just 51 instead of 71