Some major Fire Emblem revisions

[fandom_12cheeper]

OK,I'm gonna be blunt, the profiles for the first 3 fire emblem games are a mess so let's do something about that,shall we?

Tiki Oh boy,Tiki.I'm gonna be honest,the degree to which this site downplays her is kinda hilarious. Anyway,first off,in the event that you both fail to retrieve falchion and lose Tiki this happens. https://serenesforest.net/shadow-dragon/scripts/game-script/chapter-24-the-dragonkin-realm/

Gotoh: "I know you mean to challenge Medeus. But you and your companions haven't the power to win." Marth: "What? Why not? Because I failed to retrieve Falchion?" Gotoh: "You also failed to save the divine dragon girl."


Gotoh,who has overlooked Tiki for most of her life and was around for both offscreen wars straight up says here that Tiki is more powerful than Medeus.

https://serenesforest.net/shadow-dragon/scripts/game-script/chapter-24x-a-world-apart/

"Marth did as Gotoh instructed and chose soldiers for his journey into the unseen. What lay within the tower in this alternate world to test him? Marth's heart wavered. But with neither the divine blade Falchion nor the divine dragon girl to aid him, the tower's master was his last hope of defeating Medeus."

Which is further supported by the omniscient narrator.


Now mystery of the emblem also gives us a few things to work with

https://serenesforest.net/wiki/index.php/Chapter_14:_A_Mystery_Revealed_(Script)

"The earth dragons sealed under Macedon will soon awaken. There are several hundreds--no, several thousands. I will entrust Tiki to you as well. You will find her in the room to the right. With her, you can defeat those dragons. But I must warn you. If you do not complete the Binding Shield, even Tiki will be destroyed.

Marth: What?! But why!?

Gotoh: Because she is still a child. Without the shield, she too will degenerate.. In time, she will turn into a beast and attack humanity. I took pity on her and sent her to sleep. But if the Binding Shield is restored, we will no longer have to worry. The shield will protect Tiki. Marth, I leave Tiki in your hands. Please free her from her destruction."

Gotoh claims that Tiki possesses enough power to take down the earth dragpns that participated in the divine-earth dragon war.As in the exact same war that is currently used to directly scale Medeus to Naha in for participating in.

But the really good one is this.

"Tiki was the daughter of the Divine Dragon King, Naga,

and was sleeping in the temple because the king so willed. The Divine Dragon King's fear of Tiki's power was that of a loving parent. Were Tiki to awaken, her dreadful hidden power would eventually destroy the world... So thought the king."

Whether you take this to mean that she possesses enough power to destroy the entire planet(as is usually assumed with these kinds of statements) or merely just the continent of Archanea, seeing as how she's stated to do this with her "dreadful hidden power" it is extremely unlikely that this is meant to be eliminating humanity slowly over time like her current profile insists on.

Naga This is a relatively minor one but Nagi,who is heavily implied to be a heavily weakened reincarnation of Naga can teleport from her tower to Dolhr keep which exist in completely different dimensions from each other.

Gharnef This is one that's been bugging me for awhile mostly because Imhullu's treated as a straight up NLF.GER being listed as an inconclusive matchup says it all really.

Now let's see how Imhullu's defensive powers ACTUALLY work then,shall we?


https://serenesforest.net/wiki/index.php/Chapter_10:_The_Two_Mages_(Script)

"The Darksphere is that which complements the Lightsphere; in battle, it possesses the enemy's mind, negating their attacks. But the Darksphere also amplifies wrath and envy, and can turn its owner into a demon. Hardin must have obtained the Darksphere from somewhere... And now his heart has been lost to it."

Oh.It's just mind hax.Well that's certainly a far cry from how it's currently treated,isn't it?

Medeus Ah Medeus.Quite possibly the most misrepresented FE character on this site. His profile currently states that he was one of Nagas most valuable allies in the war with the earth dragons.This...is mever actually stated anywhere.I'm serious.Dig through both games texts.You'll never find anything alluding to this.Especially strange since it would make Medeus a more compelling character.At best you could scale him to the earth dragons that did participate. Of course,by this same token you would also have to scale every divine dragon in existence to Naga as well.

Duma Echoes added a rather interesting statement regarding Duma and Mila

https://serenesforest.net/fire-embl...a/game-script/act-5-rigel-castle-duma-temple/

"I am Mila. Your kind call me "goddess". Together with my brother Duma, I shaped this land."

Duma and Mila created the continent of Valentia itself which is pretty nice for consistency.

"My heart is full of thanks for all you've given man, O divine Duma. Without yours and Mila's bounty, Valentia could never have existed."

Which is further reiterated by Celica.

Finally

Falchio

Falchions profile currently states that it boosts the users stats and negates all melee range attacks. It boosting stats is supported by neither lore nor gameplay.As far as I can tell it's only a thing to handwave away the discrepancy of durability on Falchion users. As for the melee stuff that's a pretty clear case of early installment wierdness given that it was removed from all subsequent games featuring the Falchion including remakes.

And I think that's it.

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

Well, I'm not really in touch with Marth's games, but I'll take a look at this, but for now I'll start with the Echoes stuff and get to the rest later

Duma and Mila creating Valentia would probably place them both at High 6-B (or half of baseline 6-A), the whole "Valentia would never have existed" seems blatant enough to say they created the continent itself instead of "we helped the people on it civilize and form Zofia and Rigel" or something like that (I'll get onto scaling others to this later)

Oh yeah, and I completely agree with the changes to Falchion I completely forgotten that it even had a page

Also, the thing about Medeus being allies with Naga came from here, but I wouldn't know if that's in New Mystery as I have yet to finish it, I'll get on to his scaling later

Traveling between dimensions for Naga seems good

Mind Hax Darksphere and Imhullu seems good

I'll be taking a while to get through everything about Tiki and reply again later (probably including where Medeus scales)

 

[fandom_12cheeper]

Well, I'm not really in touch with Marth's games, but I'll take a look at this, but for now I'll start with the Echoes stuff and get to the rest later

Duma and Mila creating Valentia would probably place them both at High 6-B (or half of baseline 6-A), the whole "Valentia would never have existed" seems blatant enough to say they created the continent itself instead of "we helped the people on it civilize and form Zofia and Rigel" or something like that (I'll get onto scaling others to this later)

Oh yeah, and I completely agree with the changes to Falchion I completely forgotten that it even had a page

Also, the thing about Medeus being allies with Naga came from here, but I wouldn't know if that's in New Mystery as I have yet to finish it, I'll get on to his scaling later

Traveling between dimensions for Naga seems good

Mind Hax Darksphere and Imhullu seems good

I'll be taking a while to get through everything about Tiki and reply again later (probably including where Medeus scales)

I'm well aware of what Xane said as I've played both versions of mystery of the emblem.Regardless there's no evidence he had any direct involvement.All that's said is that he followed the divine dragon elders advice by sealing his power into a stone and did as Naga told him and guarded the Dragon's Table after Naga sealed the other earth dragons beneath it.I'm fine if you want to scale all of the earth dragons to Naga that's fine by me but you'd also have to scale every single transformed divine dragon as well.

 

[PaChi2]

I havent played Valentia yet (Im salty because of that 45Ôé¼ season pass...), I played the original, tho.

I havent revised the profiles because, well, they are not commonly used.

After checking the OP, I agree with this.

Tiki at full power is comparable to Medeus.

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

I disagree with Planet level Tiki, as the quote does seem to imply the destruction is done over time ("would eventually destroy the world"), but going through all I'm seeing I do agree that Tiki > Medeus

 

[fandom_12cheeper]

I disagree with Planet level Tiki, as the quote does seem to imply the destruction is done over time ("would eventually destroy the world"), but going through all I'm seeing I do agree that Tiki > Medeus

Eventually as in when she inevitably degenerated. Not seriously arguing that anyway but just thought I'd point out that that's how "destroy the world" statements tend to be treated on this site.

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

Well, "Medeus level+" Tiki seems like a good idea

But Medeus would probably scale to High 6-B as Alm and Marth's Falchions shouldn't be too vastly different in power (High 6-B also scaling to Holy Weapons, Exalted Falchion, and Grima)

 

[PaChi2]

Well, Im not sure if child Tiki is > Medeus, adult Tiki, however, most likely.

 

[fandom_12cheeper]

Well, Im not sure if child Tiki is > Medeus, adult Tiki, however, most likely.

No.Literally everything that makes Tiki a borderline god tier comes from when she was only 1000 years old during Marth's time.

 

[PaChi2]

No.Literally everything that makes Tiki a borderline god tier comes from when she was only 1000 years old during Marth's time.

Isnt Child tike unexperienced, tho? During marth's time she cannot properly control her powers iirc.

 

[fandom_12cheeper]

No.Literally everything that makes Tiki a borderline god tier comes from when she was only 1000 years old during Marth's time.

Isnt Child tike unexperienced, tho? During marth's time she cannot properly control her powers iirc.

It isn't so much she can't control her powers so much as it is that even when her power is sealed she's still at risk of degeneration while conscious.If it was a lack of control she'd be too dangerous to use at all since she'd just end up accidentally nuking everything.

 

[PaChi2]

Fair enough.

 

[Kyle_Ramos]

I dont see this as a very big upgrade imo.

 

[fandom_12cheeper]

I dont see this as a very big upgrade imo.

I'm not trying to upgrade anything.I'm just clearing up blatant misinformation.The only character this is really upgrading is Tiki and to a lesser extent Naga.Everything else is either downgrades or otherwise fairly minor.

 

[Kyle_Ramos]

Tiki gets to 6-B.

The rest of the Akaneia Timeline is gettking diwngraded a bit?

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

Actually, she might become High 6-B for being above Medeus, who fought Marth, who shouldn't be too different in power compared to Alm, who fought Duma, who created Valentia alongside Mila (half of Continent level ends of High 6-B)

 

[Kyle_Ramos]

Anyways, why are they 8-A anyways if magic tomes are not considered accurate? (Ex. Real Meteors/Real lightning/Real Black Holes/etc.?)

I get Meteor and Bolganone, but why ignore all the thunder tomes for speed and most of FE1-3 and FE6-10 have not been calced for AP?

 

[fandom_12cheeper]

Naga gets cross universe teleportation,Imhullu and the darksphere go from being a NLF to basic mind hax,and Falchion loses melee attack negation and statistics amplification.There should also probably be a note on the profiles of Falchion users mentioning that its AP only applies to dragons as well tbh.

 

[Kyle_Ramos]

I think thats already on most Falchion user profiles.

Cross Universe Teleportation? What.

 

[fandom_12cheeper]

Cross Universe Teleportation? What.

If you recruit Nagi,who's a heavily weakened reincarnation of Naga in Shadow Dragon she teleports from her tower to Dolhr keep. Said tower exists in another dimension outside of the normal universe.

 

[Kyle_Ramos]

Huh.

Weird. I dont remember that it was on another dimension.

But okay, i thought you were gonna say something like Gaiden/Fates/Awakenimg dont happen on the same universe

 

[Kyle_Ramos]

I think this is not the same topic as the maid thread, but what ha├▒pened to the illumination calc for FE6?

 

[fandom_12cheeper]

Huh.

Weird. I dont remember that it was on another dimension.

https://serenesforest.net/shadow-dragon/scripts/game-script/chapter-24-the-dragonkin-realm/ "Gotoh:Select a handful of your best warriors. I must send into an unseen dimension." Marth: An unseen dimension, my lord? Gotoh: A place outside the confines of our world. There you will find a tower; you must pass its Keepers' test. If your strength and need are great enough, the tower's master will answer, and then, perhaps, your fortunes will be changed for the better."

 

[PaChi2]

Yeah, it was in another dimension.

 

[fandom_12cheeper]

So assuming there aren't any last minute objections what are the agreed changes?

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

Medeus < Tiki

Naga's dimensional travel

Darksphere and Imhullu mindhax

Medeus not scaling to Naga (although imo he'll scale to Marth, who should be around the same strength as Alm, who scales to Duma)

Duma upgrade (High 6-B, probably scales to everyone who is currently 6-B)

Falchion's changes

Basically everything

 

[fandom_12cheeper]

K.So do I need to get a mod to unlock the topics or something? Also,should gharnef stalemating GER be removed under notable inconclusive fights?

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

I'm pretty sure none of the profiles are locked, and yeah, GER vs Gharnef should be removed

High 6-B scaling:

Duma (High 6-B via creating Valentia alongside Mila)

Alm w/ Falchion (Fought and defeated Duma)

Marth w/ Falchion (should be comparable to Alm)

Medeus (fought Falchion Marth)

Seliph, Lewyn, and Arvis (should at least be in the same tier as Julius and Julia)

At least High 6-B:

Tiki (Stronger than Medeus)

Naga (weapons created from her fangs reach these levels)

Julius and Julia (Loptyr = Naga) (possibly scales to other Holy Weapons)

Grima (Grima = Naga)

Endgame Robin (Can fight and kill Grima)

Exalted Falchion users (Can fight Grima and put him to sleep)

Feels nice to have them scale to a feat, too bad it took 15 games

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

High 6-B for the main timeline's god tiers? Little late, but they do look great. Anyway, weren't the human forms of the manekates going to be upgraded to 8-A and Massively Hypersonic Combat speed due to the fact that even young children were able to slightly harm and somewhat keep up with Slayde?

 

[Kyle_Ramos]

Wait.

I thought only GBA had Massively Hypersonic characters.

 

[Kyle_Ramos]

WAIT

Why does Ike have Massively Hypersonic speeds based on a FE4 calc?

Downgrade. Downgrade. Downgeade.

WRYYYYYYYY

 

[Dark649]

Because Bolting is present in the game, which behaves the same in all FE Game, so no downgrades.

 

[Kyle_Ramos]

Yes downgrades.

That calc is made from FE4's bolting.

The same reason GBA characters are faster than the rest is becuase their Bolting is faster.

Calc PoR/RD's Bolting and if he is still Massively Hypersonic, so be it.

But for now, its wrong to have him calced by other timeline's feats.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

No downgrades, Bolting is still officially considered real lightning in all Fire Emblem games. Besides, you can't give other universes unfair treatment just because Tellius happens to be a least favorite timeline. Keep in mind, every single Zelda boss is Small Island level at bare minimum despite a calc/animation exclusive to Phantom Hourglass for the bombs that Link carries. Same with Metroid characters being Planet level due to a Samus & Joey exclusive feat; well they technically got other 5-B feats, but off topic.

The only reason for less impressive dodge animations is limitations due to game mechanics. And besides, it's theoretically even more difficult for flying units to dodge bolting, due to lightning being attracted to higher elevated objects; and yet, air units from all games can dodge Bolting with ease. Also, using a backflip to dodge a lightning bolt would generally be a bad idea; but it still seems to work for some units.

 

[Kyle_Ramos]

Yes downgrades.

What are you talking about.

Its not my fault Tellius's Bolting hasnt been calced, Altea timeline Bolting has been applied, Elibe Bolting has been calced (And it is shared with Magvel because they share animations) why not Tellius?

I am not saying they shouldnt be Massively Hypersonic but that they should be Massively Hypersonic for the right reasons, and that reason is Tellius's Bolting getting calced.

 

[Kyle_Ramos]

If you are willing to give speed feats from a different timeline's version of an attack, then Magvel amd Elibe's base forms should also be 8-A because "is still considered X in all Fire Emblem games".

If Literally any magic attack is the same for every timeline, so give Heroes Bolgannone AP and Durability just because Lilina has "Bolgannone" in Awakening DLC and in Heroes.

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

Lemme just find a video of bolting being dodged in PoR or RD real quick, the birds eye view angle is probably going to be a problem in calcing it

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Bolganone doesn't exist in the GBA games; only reason they're 8-C as opposed to 8-A; but we could calc Fimbulvetr to scale to the GBA characters if one of the FE games has an animation that would yield higher than 8-C. Keep in mind that there are other Low 7-C calcs such as the Meteor. But still, absolutely positively no speed downgrades at all.

 

[Kyle_Ramos]

Forget what i said.

I rewrote the comment.

Lilina has Bolgannone in Heroes and Awakening DLC.

Give everyone in Heroes 8-A stats because you say they are the same in every timeline (which is wrong) and Massively Hypersonic (Elibe) speed because Bolting is also in Heroes.

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

Nobody scales to or from FEH or DLC