Solid Snake vs Pikachu

[Yojimbo1989]

Pikachu was nerfed to hell by Zekrom right before the Snivy fight. Plus it was already explained earlier it's best to go with high end feats as most verses have low end feats that contradict it like most shonen anime (Goku is rock level in DBZ and makes it to laser level by RoF)

Goku has enough consistent feats to know which ones are PIS and outliers, and besides one of the two that you mentioned happened in a non-canon anime filler scene. With Pokemon there are so many contradictions it's impossible to determine which ones are true feats and which ones are PIS. Plus he didn't just lose to Snivy, he also lost to Serpine as well, again further proving my point

 

[Talonmask]

Didn't you state that the Solar Gun, Mantis and Sorrow Doll aren't canon?

Yeah, but it is part of a composite, i NEVER said it was a CANON composite.

So, being composite Pikachu, Snake must resort to normal gunfire

He does not. Do you actually believe Snake just shoots people around?

(which Pikachu being able to react to lightning, should have no trouble dodging, no matter the direction it came from)

It does if your opponent is hidden.

Can you react to a Mosquito after it has bitten you?

Now, that bite will tear down your senses and put you to sleep.

(Sleep Gas Mines also do the job just fine, since Pikachu is dumb compared to Snake.)

since Electric Terrain will prevent Pikachu from being tranquilzed and CQC isn't a factor at all because Snake would be paralyzing himself on contact. (Static ability)

Fair enough, but Snake still has the rest of the list of options to defeat Pikachu.

Also, he would not get paralized in the frist place because of his electromagnetic resistance he has from his nanos and the experience with Ocelot.

Pikachu wins both rounds due to likely speed advantage and being able to paralyze, emotionally damage (Disarming Voice), and disarm Snake. (Knock Off)

...

How do i even respond to this?

This is anime/game composite Pikachu, this means it´s a combination of Ash´s, Red´s and the other´s pikachu.

Not only Snake has mind hax durability, he would not get paralized for reasons stated on the previous posts and in the last paragraph of this one.

I've recognized that it is composite, therefore I am going through all of Pikachu's potential.

You are acting as if that the moment Pikachu hears the sound of the gun after being fired that it won't be able to track the sound location with its excellent hearing and dodge accordingly with speeds faster than the bullet, I didn't realize mosquitos travelled at MHS+ speed?

And what good is that weaponry going to do if Pikachu Substitutes and Double Teams? Or uses Flash? He won't be aiming at Pikachu anymore and Pikachu will just find him by sound then instantly Iron Tail. You are underestimating Pikachu here.

 

[Mikoto_Misaka231]

I've recognized that it is composite, therefore I am going through all of Pikachu's potential.

You´re not.

This Pikachu, the pikachu we are discussing, is a canon of the trainers who owned him, Game!Pikachu is another entire being.

You are acting as if that the moment Pikachu hears the sound of the gun after being fired that it won't be able to track the sound location with its excellent hearing and dodge accordingly with speeds faster than the bullet, I didn't realize mosquitos travelled at MHS+ speed?

Silencer.

Hundreds of metters away.

Pikachu is still dumb.

And what good is that weaponry going to do if Pikachu Substitutes and Double Teams? Or uses Flash? He won't be aiming at Pikachu anymore and Pikachu will just find him by sound then instantly Iron Tail. You are underestimating Pikachu here.

Becuase Pikachu is getting one-shotted in every scenario.

Flash is insignificant to Snake, Snake is silent enough to fool Genome Soldiers and the Tengu Armada, Pikachu is not going to hear anything.

I am not, Snake wins.

As we have discussed before.

But you refuse to read.

 

[Yojimbo1989]

Didn't you state that the Solar Gun, Mantis and Sorrow Doll aren't canon?

Yeah, but it is part of a composite, i NEVER said it was a CANON composite.

So, being composite Pikachu, Snake must resort to normal gunfire

He does not. Do you actually believe Snake just shoots people around?

(which Pikachu being able to react to lightning, should have no trouble dodging, no matter the direction it came from)

It does if your opponent is hidden.

Can you react to a Mosquito after it has bitten you?

Now, that bite will tear down your senses and put you to sleep.

(Sleep Gas Mines also do the job just fine, since Pikachu is dumb compared to Snake.)

since Electric Terrain will prevent Pikachu from being tranquilzed and CQC isn't a factor at all because Snake would be paralyzing himself on contact. (Static ability)

Fair enough, but Snake still has the rest of the list of options to defeat Pikachu.

Also, he would not get paralized in the frist place because of his electromagnetic resistance he has from his nanos and the experience with Ocelot.

Pikachu wins both rounds due to likely speed advantage and being able to paralyze, emotionally damage (Disarming Voice), and disarm Snake. (Knock Off)

...

How do i even respond to this?

This is anime/game composite Pikachu, this means it´s a combination of Ash´s, Red´s and the other´s pikachu.

Not only Snake has mind hax durability, he would not get paralized for reasons stated on the previous posts and in the last paragraph of this one.

I've recognized that it is composite, therefore I am going through all of Pikachu's potential.

You are acting as if that the moment Pikachu hears the sound of the gun after being fired that it won't be able to track the sound location with its excellent hearing and dodge accordingly with speeds faster than the bullet, I didn't realize mosquitos travelled at MHS+ speed?

And what good is that weaponry going to do if Pikachu Substitutes and Double Teams? Or uses Flash? He won't be aiming at Pikachu anymore and Pikachu will just find him by sound then instantly Iron Tail. You are underestimating Pikachu here.

You can't simply say that Pikachu can use every single potential move available to him since no Pikachu has ever been able to do so. In the games all Pokemon have the ability to use four moves only, if we use composite Pikachu then we can only say that he can use moves that the Pikachu from the anime/manga have ever been able to use. For double team and substitute again there's the fact that A) no Pikachu to my knowledge has ever used those moves and B) even if they could there's the discrepency between anime/games, in the games it increases evasion, but in the anime it splits the users body but leaves it much lower on defense. In the case that the latter was true Snake could use his more powerful weapons and if he managed to hit Pikachu, Pika would be finished.

Even if he did he still find Snake he still wouldn't be able to kill Snake, plus Snake is an expert at vanishing in plain sight.

As I've already said if Pikachu attacks Snake at close range, he runs the risk of Snake attaching a bomb to Pikachu or putting him in a position that he can't dodge. Snake has the neccessary capability to do so

 

[Pocket-Chu]

Goku was both in base and with this guard down.

Actually, When Goku was hit by the rock he was a super saiyan and when he was hit with the laser he was ssb <,< but he did have his gaurd down which for some reason makes him weaker than a normal human.

 

[Talonmask]

I've recognized that it is composite, therefore I am going through all of Pikachu's potential.

You´re not.

This Pikachu, the pikachu we are discussing, is a canon of the trainers who owned him, Game!Pikachu is another entire being.

You are acting as if that the moment Pikachu hears the sound of the gun after being fired that it won't be able to track the sound location with its excellent hearing and dodge accordingly with speeds faster than the bullet, I didn't realize mosquitos travelled at MHS+ speed?

Silencer.

Hundreds of metters away.

Pikachu is still dumb.

And what good is that weaponry going to do if Pikachu Substitutes and Double Teams? Or uses Flash? He won't be aiming at Pikachu anymore and Pikachu will just find him by sound then instantly Iron Tail. You are underestimating Pikachu here.

Becuase Pikachu is getting one-shotted in every scenario.

Flash is insignificant to Snake, Snake is silent enough to fool Genome Soldiers and the Tengu Armada, Pikachu is not going to hear anything.

I am not, Snake wins.

As we have discussed before.

But you refuse to read.

I like your form of arguing. Let me try it to test how significant it is.

I did, they are not different, if you are going off of people trained Pikachus in the game that is theoretically any player character, therefore Pikachu has access to everything.

Electric Terrain.

Hundreds of meters to an MHS+ character is nothing.

Is very small, agile, and blends in to the grass. (Being 1ft in size you know.)

Durability supports the contrary.

Not if he's blinded.

No he doesn't, sorry.

Still up for debate.

I have read.

 

[Yojimbo1989]

Goku was both in base and with this guard down.

Actually, When Goku was hit by the rock he was a super saiyan and when he was hit with the laser he was ssb <,< but he did have his gaurd down which for some reason makes him weaker than a normal human.
Again anime filler only

 

[Yojimbo1989]

I've recognized that it is composite, therefore I am going through all of Pikachu's potential.

You´re not.

This Pikachu, the pikachu we are discussing, is a canon of the trainers who owned him, Game!Pikachu is another entire being.

You are acting as if that the moment Pikachu hears the sound of the gun after being fired that it won't be able to track the sound location with its excellent hearing and dodge accordingly with speeds faster than the bullet, I didn't realize mosquitos travelled at MHS+ speed?

Silencer.

Hundreds of metters away.

Pikachu is still dumb.

And what good is that weaponry going to do if Pikachu Substitutes and Double Teams? Or uses Flash? He won't be aiming at Pikachu anymore and Pikachu will just find him by sound then instantly Iron Tail. You are underestimating Pikachu here.

Becuase Pikachu is getting one-shotted in every scenario.

Flash is insignificant to Snake, Snake is silent enough to fool Genome Soldiers and the Tengu Armada, Pikachu is not going to hear anything.

I am not, Snake wins.

As we have discussed before.

But you refuse to read.

I like your form of arguing. Let me try it to test how significant it is.

I did, they are not different, if you are going off of people trained Pikachus in the game that is theoretically any player character, therefore Pikachu has access to everything.

Electric Terrain.

Hundreds of meters to an MHS+ character is nothing.

Is very small, agile, and blends in to the grass.

Durability supports the contrary.

Not if he's blinded.

No he doesn't, sorry.

Still up for debate.

I have read.

See my previous statement, NO Pikachu has ever, EVER been able to use every single move, he cannot possibly have access to everything.

Again only for female cosplay Pikachu's and in the right outfit.

So does Snake (minus the small bit)

As I've said, too many contradictions to say that Pikachu is town level

Snake can withstand his own stun grenades so blinding him wouldn't work for very long

Everything that Pikachu can do, Snake has the ability to counter

 

[Mikoto_Misaka231]

I've recognized that it is composite, therefore I am going through all of Pikachu's potential.

You´re not.

This Pikachu, the pikachu we are discussing, is a canon of the trainers who owned him, Game!Pikachu is another entire being.

You are acting as if that the moment Pikachu hears the sound of the gun after being fired that it won't be able to track the sound location with its excellent hearing and dodge accordingly with speeds faster than the bullet, I didn't realize mosquitos travelled at MHS+ speed?

Silencer.

Hundreds of metters away.

Pikachu is still dumb.

And what good is that weaponry going to do if Pikachu Substitutes and Double Teams? Or uses Flash? He won't be aiming at Pikachu anymore and Pikachu will just find him by sound then instantly Iron Tail. You are underestimating Pikachu here.

Becuase Pikachu is getting one-shotted in every scenario.

Flash is insignificant to Snake, Snake is silent enough to fool Genome Soldiers and the Tengu Armada, Pikachu is not going to hear anything.

I am not, Snake wins.

As we have discussed before.

But you refuse to read.

I like your form of arguing. Let me try it to test how significant it is.
I did, they are not different, if you are going off of people trained Pikachus in the game that is theoretically any player character, therefore Pikachu has access to everything.

Electric Terrain.

Hundreds of meters to an MHS+ character is nothing.

Is very small, agile, and blends in to the grass. (Being 1ft in size you know.)

Durability supports the contrary.

Not if he's blinded.

No he doesn't, sorry.

Still up for debate.

I have read.

You have not.

We have already confirmed Snake wins both rounds.


Please, stop fanbpoying for pikachu.

Snake has the edge on options, inteliigence and methods to take PIkachu down.


Watherver you are going to say, Solar Gun and Mantis Down.

Pikachu loses.

 

[Pocket-Chu]

Goku was both in base and with this guard down.

Actually, When Goku was hit by the rock he was a super saiyan and when he was hit with the laser he was ssb <,< but he did have his gaurd down which for some reason makes him weaker than a normal human.

Again anime filler only
Doesn't really change the fact that he wasn't in base when those things happened, plus i wasn't really implying anything i was just correcting Mikoto.

 

[Talonmask]

"You can't simply say that Pikachu can use every single potential move available to him since no Pikachu has ever been able to do so. In the games all Pokemon have the ability to use four moves only."

Game mechanics.

" For double team and substitute again there's the fact that A) no Pikachu to my knowledge has ever used those moves and B) even if they could there's the discrepency between anime/games, in the games it increases evasion, but in the anime it splits the users body but leaves it much lower on defense."

Trainers (The player character/Red, etc.) Can teach it to them via TM, meaning they still have a way of using it. Double Team in no way affects the Pokemon's defenses.

Substitute can fool Alakazam, a Pokemon with an intelligence exponentially higher than Snakes, something's telling me that he'll fall for it too.

"As I've already said if Pikachu attacks Snake at close range, he runs the risk of Snake attaching a bomb to Pikachu or putting him in a position that he can't dodge. Snake has the neccessary capability to do so."

Pikachu uses Wish to gain back lost HP.

 

[Mikoto_Misaka231]

"You can't simply say that Pikachu can use every single potential move available to him since no Pikachu has ever been able to do so. In the games all Pokemon have the ability to use four moves only."
Game mechanics.

" For double team and substitute again there's the fact that A) no Pikachu to my knowledge has ever used those moves and B) even if they could there's the discrepency between anime/games, in the games it increases evasion, but in the anime it splits the users body but leaves it much lower on defense."

Trainers (The player character/Red, etc.) Can teach it to them via TM, meaning they still have a way of using it. Double Team in no way affects the Pokemon's defenses.

Substitute can fool Alakazam, a Pokemon with an intelligence exponentially higher than Snakes, something's telling me that he'll fall for it too.

"As I've already said if Pikachu attacks Snake at close range, he runs the risk of Snake attaching a bomb to Pikachu or putting him in a position that he can't dodge. Snake has the neccessary capability to do so."

Pikachu uses Wish to gain back lost HP.

"Red can teach it thru TMs"


Exept Red has a canon Pikachu.


OOOOPS.

 

[Talonmask]

"You have not. We have already confirmed Snake wins both rounds."

Evidently not.

"Please, stop fanboying for pikachu. Snake has the edge on options, inteliigence and methods to take PIkachu down."

Stop fanboying over Snake, because it's kind of hard to utilize all those options if you can't hit your opponent that is both 1/6th your height and much faster.

"Whatever you are going to say, Solar Gun and Mantis Down. Pikachu loses."

Substitute will shelter Pikachu from the doll, and Snake will fall for it because a Pokemon with more intelligence than his has. Thus giving Pikachu an opening by muzzle flash or origin of throw. Pikachu wins.

 

[Pocket-Chu]

Okay guys calm down. It would probably be better if we waited for some input from people who haven't commented on this battle yet.

 

[Yojimbo1989]

"You can't simply say that Pikachu can use every single potential move available to him since no Pikachu has ever been able to do so. In the games all Pokemon have the ability to use four moves only."
Game mechanics.

" For double team and substitute again there's the fact that A) no Pikachu to my knowledge has ever used those moves and B) even if they could there's the discrepency between anime/games, in the games it increases evasion, but in the anime it splits the users body but leaves it much lower on defense."

Trainers (The player character/Red, etc.) Can teach it to them via TM, meaning they still have a way of using it. Double Team in no way affects the Pokemon's defenses.

Substitute can fool Alakazam, a Pokemon with an intelligence exponentially higher than Snakes, something's telling me that he'll fall for it too.

"As I've already said if Pikachu attacks Snake at close range, he runs the risk of Snake attaching a bomb to Pikachu or putting him in a position that he can't dodge. Snake has the neccessary capability to do so."

Pikachu uses Wish to gain back lost HP.

Again all this erroneously assumes that Pikachu can use every single move which he can't. Pikachu can only use learn from TMs as part of the games, but again then he's only allowed to use four moves. Plus you're only taking the composite bits that give Pikachu a better chance at winning. Double team in the anime was specifically stated to reduce a Pokemon's defense. When Ash fought in his first Pokemon league championship his bulbasaur fought against Scyther and won because of this reason

 

[Yojimbo1989]

"You have not. We have already confirmed Snake wins both rounds."
Evidently not.

"Please, stop fanboying for pikachu. Snake has the edge on options, inteliigence and methods to take PIkachu down."

Stop fanboying over Snake, because it's kind of hard to utilize all those options if you can't hit your opponent that is both 1/6th your height and much faster.

"Whatever you are going to say, Solar Gun and Mantis Down. Pikachu loses."

Substitute will shelter Pikachu from the doll, and Snake will fall for it because a Pokemon with more intelligence than his has. Thus giving Pikachu an opening by muzzle flash or origin of throw. Pikachu wins.

See above

 

[Talonmask]

"You can't simply say that Pikachu can use every single potential move available to him since no Pikachu has ever been able to do so. In the games all Pokemon have the ability to use four moves only."Game mechanics.
" For double team and substitute again there's the fact that A) no Pikachu to my knowledge has ever used those moves and B) even if they could there's the discrepency between anime/games, in the games it increases evasion, but in the anime it splits the users body but leaves it much lower on defense."

Trainers (The player character/Red, etc.) Can teach it to them via TM, meaning they still have a way of using it. Double Team in no way affects the Pokemon's defenses.

Substitute can fool Alakazam, a Pokemon with an intelligence exponentially higher than Snakes, something's telling me that he'll fall for it too.

"As I've already said if Pikachu attacks Snake at close range, he runs the risk of Snake attaching a bomb to Pikachu or putting him in a position that he can't dodge. Snake has the neccessary capability to do so."

Pikachu uses Wish to gain back lost HP.

"Red can teach it thru TMs"


Exept Red has a canon Pikachu.


OOOOPS.

Playable character Red is in your command and therefore Pikachu has access to its entire movepool.

Ooops.

 

[Talonmask]

"You can't simply say that Pikachu can use every single potential move available to him since no Pikachu has ever been able to do so. In the games all Pokemon have the ability to use four moves only."Game mechanics.
" For double team and substitute again there's the fact that A) no Pikachu to my knowledge has ever used those moves and B) even if they could there's the discrepency between anime/games, in the games it increases evasion, but in the anime it splits the users body but leaves it much lower on defense."

Trainers (The player character/Red, etc.) Can teach it to them via TM, meaning they still have a way of using it. Double Team in no way affects the Pokemon's defenses.

Substitute can fool Alakazam, a Pokemon with an intelligence exponentially higher than Snakes, something's telling me that he'll fall for it too.

"As I've already said if Pikachu attacks Snake at close range, he runs the risk of Snake attaching a bomb to Pikachu or putting him in a position that he can't dodge. Snake has the neccessary capability to do so."

Pikachu uses Wish to gain back lost HP.

Again all this erroneously assumes that Pikachu can use every single move which he can't. Pikachu can only use learn from TMs as part of the games, but again then he's only allowed to use four moves. Plus you're only taking the composite bits that give Pikachu a better chance at winning. Double team in the anime was specifically stated to reduce a Pokemon's defense. When Ash fought in his first Pokemon league championship his bulbasaur fought against Scyther and won because of this reaso

It's not a fair battle if one of the battlers has a handicap.

Also I literally said that the fact that Pokemon can only learn four moves is a result of game mechanics, because that would mean Alakazam, a Pokemon with the IQ of 5000, can only remember four attacks.

 

[Mikoto_Misaka231]

Two things.

One. Snake is smarter and has more options, in canon and in composite.

Pika is inmune to tranqs, Snake is resistant to electricity and cannot be paralized, Snake is smarter than Pikachu by a lot, making Pika fall into mines or traps is going to be a piece of cake for Snake.

Two. I have stuff to do today, please do not close the thread or conclude this without me.

 

[Talonmask]

Two things.
One. Snake is smarter and has more options, in canon and in composite.

Pika is inmune to tranqs, Snake is resistant to electricity and cannot be paralized, Snake is smarter than Pikachu by a lot, making Pika fall into mines or traps is going to be a piece of cake for Snake.

Two. I have stuff to do today, please do not close the thread or conclude this without me.

Snake doesn't have an infinite number of things on him at once, and due to Pikachu's supposed stupidity, it will probably try paralyzing him a few times, resulting in the mines and traps getting fried. Snake may have resistance to Pikachu's electricity, but the technology he has on him doesn't.

Pikachu is still faster and an extremely small target.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Alright. I'm back, and I'm gonna settle a few things. This is to everyone who replied recently.

1) Pikachu cannot use TM moves unless he has used them in anime/manga (i.e: He can use Flash, but not Wish.)

2) You two, please stop downplaying Pikachu. The reason that it's so inconsistent is the reason we can rate his durability at town, as we have no other way to do it at his best, which is perfectly even with latios, and tanking both, Dragonair and Dragonite. He's town on this site, so don't argue otherwise. I can't argue star level SPC for that reason. And manga Pikachu has feats against Mewtwo, who in turn has feats against Deoxys, who wrecks Snake in AP, Dura, and Speed. Don't go there with the non canon Solar Gun and such, which won't affect Pikachu with his durability...

3)Double team would be a viable option, and the defence isn't a thing. It was retconned later, with it never being proven since. Even then, it's not like Snake will be capable of telling the difference. Alakazam, which was a good point by the way, was fooled

4) The guy who can shoot lightning out of the air. That just means he has that reaction speed and his weapon is lightning speed. Most weapons won't be capable of deterring Pikachu.

5) Composite Pikachu is the one on this site so ALL MOVES ANY PIKACHU HAS USED OR CAN LEARN W/OUT TMS OR BREEDING CAN BE USED. I had no idea Electric Terrain was a thing, so I didn't argue it prior. Electric Terrain is a viable solution. Besides, Cosplay is PIS. How can changing a costume change one's moves.

6) Snake's basic weapons won't even pierce Pikachu. Just thought about that. This includes the tranq.

7) Pikachu, or any pokemon is capable of using all proven moves on most if not all battle forums. Do not aruge against this, not because I don't want you to, but it is a fruitless effort.

8) Pikachu being capable of buffing his speed would definitely put him above Snake

9) Pikachu doesn't have nanomachines. The dolls won't work. Nice try.

10) Pokemon paralysis (at least from electric types is much more effective than a taser. Why would you even compare them? Plus, Snake's page has nothing on him being resistant to electricity.

11) Blinding him would work long enough for a MHS character to drown him with Surf, omni attack with thunder wave, find and kill him closely with iron tail, etc.

12) Nanomachines can logically be short circuited.

There's more, but I have to re-read through the thread to remember.

 

[Talonmask]

Alright. I'm back, and I'm gonna settle a few things. This is to everyone who replied recently.
1) Pikachu cannot use TM moves unless he has used them in anime/manga (i.e: He can use Flash, but not Wish.)

2) You two, please stop downplaying Pikachu. The reason that it's so inconsistent is the reason we can rate his durability at town, as we have no other way to do it at his best, which is perfectly even with latios, and tanking both, Dragonair and Dragonite. He's town on this site, so don't argue otherwise. I can't argue star level SPC for that reason. And manga Pikachu has feats against Mewtwo, who in turn has feats against Deoxys, who wrecks Snake in AP, Dura, and Speed. Don't go there with the non canon Solar Gun and such, which won't affect Pikachu with his durability...

3)Double team would be a viable option, and the defence isn't a thing. It was retconned later, with it never being proven since. Even then, it's not like Snake will be capable of telling the difference. Alakazam, which was a good point by the way, was fooled

4) The guy who can shoot lightning out of the air. That just means he has that reaction speed and his weapon is lightning speed. Most weapons won't be capable of deterring Pikachu.

5) Composite Pikachu is the one on this site so ALL MOVES ANY PIKACHU HAS USED OR CAN LEARN W/OUT TMS OR BREEDING CAN BE USED. I had no idea Electric Terrain was a thing, so I didn't argue it prior. Electric Terrain is a viable solution. Besides, Cosplay is PIS. How can changing a costume change one's moves.

6) Snake's basic weapons won't even pierce Pikachu. Just thought about that. This includes the tranq.

7) Pikachu, or any pokemon is capable of using all proven moves on most if not all battle forums. Do not aruge against this, not because I don't want you to, but it is a fruitless effort.

8) Pikachu being capable of buffing his speed would definitely put him above Snake

9) Pikachu doesn't have nanomachines. The dolls won't work. Nice try.

10) Pokemon paralysis (at least from electric types is much more effective than a taser. Why would you even compare them? Plus, Snake's page has nothing on him being resistant to electricity.

11) Blinding him would work long enough for a MHS character to drown him with Surf, omni attack with thunder wave, find and kill him closely with iron tail, etc.

12) Nanomachines can logically be short circuited.

There's more, but I have to re-read through the thread to remember.

Pikachu can learn Wish by breeding, and the point to that argument was because they said composite, which should allow Pikachu to use everything that it has to offer since logically Pikachu's trainer can be anyone, the Tier rating is based on maximum potential. So we are allowed to argue that Pikachu has access to its entire movepool and not just things it learns by levelling up, because then it isn't maximum potential and the battle seems like a waste of time.

It's like saying you don't have to hold back in a fight, but you can only use one hand and stand on one leg.

 

[Mikoto_Misaka231]

Snake doesn't have an infinite number of things on him at once

Yes he does, play MGS1 or MGS4, he can carry all of his equipment on him without any problem.

and due to Pikachu's supposed stupidity, it will probably try paralyzing him a few times, resulting in the mines and traps getting fried.

Snake´s Nanos, Octocamo, Main Tranquilizer and lethal guns (Throw a freaking EMP to a sniper rifle. Does it ceases to function?) are inmune to EMPs.

Snake may have resistance to Pikachu's electricity, but the technology he has on him doesn't.

Yes it does.

Microwave hallway.

Pikachu is still faster and an extremely small target.

Pikachu being a small target is insignificant, he is a master marksman and could keep up with Sniper Wolf, with a rifle.


Also...

Infinite Ammo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJVHt3QIS0k

 

[Talonmask]

Snake doesn't have an infinite number of things on him at once

Yes he does, play MGS1 or MGS4, he can carry all of his equipment on him without any problem.

and due to Pikachu's supposed stupidity, it will probably try paralyzing him a few times, resulting in the mines and traps getting fried.

Snake´s Nanos, Octocamo, Main Tranquilizer and lethal guns (Throw a freaking EMP to a sniper rifle. Does it ceases to function?) are inmune to EMPs.

Snake may have resistance to Pikachu's electricity, but the technology he has on him doesn't.

Yes it does.

Microwave hallway.

Pikachu is still faster and an extremely small target.

Pikachu being a small target is insignificant, he is a master marksman and could keep up with Sniper Wolf, with a rifle.


Also...

Infinite Ammo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJVHt3QIS0k

The point flew right over your head it seems.

Yes, it is significant, Sniper Wolf was a large target, and most likely slower than Pikachu.

You seem to think that good marksman = impeccable aim. Sorry, that's not the case.

 

[Mikoto_Misaka231]

1) Pikachu cannot use TM moves unless he has used them in anime/manga (i.e: He can use Flash, but not Wish.)

Fine

2) You two, please stop downplaying Pikachu. The reason that it's so inconsistent is the reason we can rate his durability at town, as we have no other way to do it at his best, which is perfectly even with latios, and tanking both, Dragonair and Dragonite. He's town on this site, so don't argue otherwise. I can't argue star level SPC for that reason. And manga Pikachu has feats against Mewtwo, who in turn has feats against Deoxys, who wrecks Snake in AP, Dura, and Speed. Don't go there with the non canon Solar Gun and such, which won't affect Pikachu with his durability...

Pikachu still doesn´t have any inmunity to tranquilizers or gases. (Sleeping Gas Mine and such)

We were saying Non-Canon Snake would obliterate Non-Canon Pikachu by a lot.

Solar gun is LS, Mantis Doll mind controls Pikachu and Sorrow insta-kills


3)Double team would be a viable option, and the defence isn't a thing. It was retconned later, with it never being proven since. Even then, it's not like Snake will be capable of telling the difference. Alakazam, which was a good point by the way, was fooled

Yeah, but that would not give Snake´s location away. (And is not canon to the manga, game and anime)

As long as Pikachu doesnt have a canon and viable way to OUTSMART and discover Snake.

4) The guy who can shoot lightning out of the air. That just means he has that reaction speed and his weapon is lightning speed. Most weapons won't be capable of deterring Pikachu.

Objection. Pikachu can be hurt easly if he does not know where the shot is from or has his guard down.

Also, Snake has weapons that can kill pikachu, Pika has to breathe, so a perfect shot to the neck would do enough. And Pika would be obliterated from the Rail Gun.

5) Composite Pikachu is the one on this site so ALL MOVES ANY PIKACHU HAS USED OR CAN LEARN W/OUT TMS OR BREEDING CAN BE USED. I had no idea Electric Terrain was a thing, so I didn't argue it prior. Electric Terrain is a viable solution. Besides, Cosplay is PIS. How can changing a costume change one's moves.

Cosplay is PIS, Other moves aside from the shown in the anime, manga and Canon Pikachu user´s are invalid.

Even if, we cannot use Pokemon Rules on this fight or Snake wins due to the canon of MGS´s game mechanics.

6) Snake's basic weapons won't even pierce Pikachu. Just thought about that. This includes the tranq.

Objection.

BIG Objection.

Pikachu has no vulnerability to tranqs, and no. It is not poison.

Pikachu is an animal, an animal that can be taken down with a couple of rounds.

Show me proof that Pikachu resisted Sleep Gas (Don´t wanna use Game Mechanics now, huh?) or Tranquilizers shot directly to his bloodstream.

7) Pikachu, or any pokemon is capable of using all proven moves on most if not all battle forums. Do not aruge against this, not because I don't want you to, but it is a fruitless effort.

Blah, Wathever.

8) Pikachu being capable of buffing his speed would definitely put him above Snake

In Intelligence, Techniques, Methods to take down Pikachu and the overral upper hand in the discussion?

Hahaha.

No.

9) Pikachu doesn't have nanomachines. The dolls won't work. Nice try.

Sorrow Doll doesn´t need nanos.

And, Solar Gun one-shots.

10) Pokemon paralysis (at least from electric types is much more effective than a taser. Why would you even compare them? Plus, Snake's page has nothing on him being resistant to electricity.

Yeah, do you have any evidence of anuling nanons or Snake NOT having any experience with exteme exposures to Electricity? Because i do.

11) Blinding him would work long enough for a MHS character to drown him with Surf, omni attack with thunder wave, find and kill him closely with iron tail, etc.

As stated before, Snake would easly survive Surf. Watch the MGS2 ending.

>Thunder Wave affecting Snake and his nanos

>Letting Pika find him

>Kill him with Iron Tail

Hah.

12) Nanomachines can logically be short circuited.

Nope.

Microwave.

There's more, but I have to re-read through the thread to remember.

Indeed. You HAVE to read the thread again.

 

[Mikoto_Misaka231]

The point flew right over your head it seems.

Not really, your points are just not valid, and it shows you have not read the thread since this was debunked long ago.

Yes, it is significant, Sniper Wolf was a large target, and most likely slower than Pikachu.

Pikachu being a small target is not significant to Snake, he can shoot small objects just fine.

This is perfect, since Pikachu can´t find Snake, and even if he does, Snake has methods to hide and fool him and scape, like stated on this thread.

Gas Grenades, Stun Grenades, Chaffies, etc.

Please do not make me go thru the entire list again.

You seem to think that good marksman = impeccable aim. Sorry, that's not the case.

Pikachu not discovering Snake and being as intelligent as a street dog without a trainer gives Snake a great advantage against him.

 

[Pikachu942]

Stop saying Solar Gun one-shots please, it's not even a lethal weapon, and clearly doesn't have any Town Level feats, nothing Snake has in his arsenal does. He's not killing Pikachu.

 

[Talonmask]

You keep thinking moves are non-canon when they use them in-game and it's hilarious.

Electric Terrain again, stops tranqs and Sleeping Gas, stop arguing this.

Pikachu just has to watch the Subtitute, wait to see the direction of what was thrown at its Substitute, then literally rush that direction, he will eventually hit a depression in the grass and figure out that something is there.

How do you hit something that's much faster than your reactions and speed altogether? You don't, regardless of Snake's technique, he loses in close quarters.

 

[Mikoto_Misaka231]

Stop saying Solar Gun one-shots please, it's not even a lethal weapon, and clearly doesn't have any Town Level feats, nothing Snake has in his arsenal does. He's not killing Pikachu.

Oh. My. God.


Please, are you even readin what i am writting?

Snake can shoot Pikachu´s neck or skull, Snake can blow him up with the P-Bombs, and can slice his throat, alongisde other methods i have already described up there.


Please, before posting this again, read the post.

I can´t just repeat myself until you accept it.

I have my evidence, show me yours.

 

[Pikachu942]

"Pikachu not discovering Snake and being as intelligent as a street dog without a trainer gives Snake a great advantage against him."

Pikachu isn't stupid without a trainer, Ash's Pikachu has shown leadership skills and strategy planning separate from Ash, and Manga Red's Pikachu has shown to be clever, cunning and even manipulative.

 

[Pikachu942]

Oh. My. God.


Please, are you even readin what i am writting?

Snake can shoot Pikachu´s neck or skull, Snake can blow him up with the P-Bombs, and can slice his throat, alongisde other methods i have already described up there.


Please, before posting this again, read the post.

I can´t just repeat myself until you accept it.

I have my evidence, show me yours.

I am reading what you are saying, NOTHING Snake has can even hurt Pikachu's superior durability to his AP, it's a simple fact.

 

[Talonmask]

The point flew right over your head it seems.

Not really, your points are just not valid, and it shows you have not read the thread since this was debunked long ago.

Yes, it is significant, Sniper Wolf was a large target, and most likely slower than Pikachu.

Pikachu being a small target is not significant to Snake, he can shoot small objects just fine.

This is perfect, since Pikachu can´t find Snake, and even if he does, Snake has methods to hide and fool him and scape, like stated on this thread.

Gas Grenades, Stun Grenades, Chaffies, etc.

Please do not make me go thru the entire list again.

You seem to think that good marksman = impeccable aim. Sorry, that's not the case.

Pikachu not discovering Snake and being as intelligent as a street dog without a trainer gives Snake a great advantage against him.

No, it did, silly.

I wasn't arguing that his rifle would be affected by the tranquilzer, I said that his mines would, which you obviously didn't pay attention to.

Also, his OctoCamo was rendered useless in the microwave, only his nanomachines and Solid Eye remained intact, Thunder Wave will disable it.

Regardless if he can shoot small objects fine, this small object is faster than anything he has actually faught.

Yes, because the moving box fools everyone.

 

[Mikoto_Misaka231]

You keep thinking moves are non-canon when they use them in-game and it's hilarious.

Composite Canon Pikachu can only use moves from the anime, Manga or Red´s Pikachu.

HAHAHAHA.

SO FUNNY.

THIS IS THE FUNNIEST THING EVER.


Really, what in the world is "hilarious" to you? Seeing you grasping to non-canon material to see Pikachu, who is as smart as a street dog and can be disabled by Chaffies have a chance against Snake?


Electric Terrain again, stops tranqs and Sleeping Gas, stop arguing this.

YOU Stop arguing that.

Electric Terrain is not canon to Composite Pikachu.

If you want to use non-canon Pikachu, i can use non-canon Snake and have the Solar Gun and the Sorrow Doll.

Let´s see what happens.

http://metalgear.wikia.com/wiki/Screaming_Mantis'_dolls (Doesnt need nanos)

Pikachu just has to watch the Subtitute, wait to see the direction of what was thrown at its Substitute, then literally rush that direction, he will eventually hit a depression in the grass and figure out that something is there.

I have to remind you that Pikachu would have to dodge a bullet he didnt see coming, since Snake would most likely shoot him on the back and that Pikachu is as smart as a street dog.

And, again, Snake has methods to scape in the case Pikachu discovers him.

How do you hit something that's much faster than your reactions and speed altogether? You don't, regardless of Snake's technique, he loses in close quarters.

>How do you hit something that´s much faster than your reactions and speed altogether?

Again, Again, Again, Again.

Stealth, Sniper Rifles, shooting him on his back.

Pikachu won´t be running around since he does not know Snake is even there.

 

[Mikoto_Misaka231]

"Pikachu not discovering Snake and being as intelligent as a street dog without a trainer gives Snake a great advantage against him."
Pikachu isn't stupid without a trainer, Ash's Pikachu has shown leadership skills and strategy planning separate from Ash, and Manga Red's Pikachu has shown to be clever, cunning and even manipulative.

Yeah, man.

Pikachu is smarter or even comparable to a genetically superior human being with an IQ of 180.

Totally.

Please stop this, man.

This is going nowhere and you are grasping.

 

[Talonmask]

Stop saying Solar Gun one-shots please, it's not even a lethal weapon, and clearly doesn't have any Town Level feats, nothing Snake has in his arsenal does. He's not killing Pikachu.

Oh. My. God.


Please, are you even readin what i am writting?

Snake can shoot Pikachu´s neck or skull, Snake can blow him up with the P-Bombs, and can slice his throat, alongisde other methods i have already described up there.


Please, before posting this again, read the post.

I can´t just repeat myself until you accept it.

I have my evidence, show me yours.

Snake's rating comes from his P-Bomb potency, not his standard equipment or his physical output.

Snake will still effected after being bombarded with microwaves, attempting to touch Pikachu will still lead to a heavy shock.

 

[Pikachu942]

I didn't say he was smarter than Snake, I said he's not "as intelligent as a street dog"

 

[Mikoto_Misaka231]

I wasn't arguing that his rifle would be affected by the tranquilzer, I said that his mines would, which you obviously didn't pay attention to.


Pikachu has no resistance to Sleep gas nor tranqs.

Or...you might want to show me scans of Red´s Pikachu, Manga or Anime Pikachu resisting to sleeping gas. (And i KNOW he doesn´t in the games.) or tranquilizers on his bloodstream.

Also, his OctoCamo was rendered useless in the microwave, only his nanomachines and Solid Eye remained intact, Thunder Wave will disable it.

>Pikachu shocking Snake for over 5 minutes non-stop, and being comparable to microwaves.

Of course, like you have presented a form on which Pikachu could find Snake.

Stealth Camo is inmune to EMPs, tho.

Regardless if he can shoot small objects fine, this small object is faster than anything he has actually faught.

Is an animal.

Who will be standing still since he cannot detect or have a reason to run around since Snake has not revealed himself.

Yes, because the moving box fools everyone.

That box is invisible to thermal and xray.

Not that he would use it on the middle of the jungle or something.

I can see Snake fooling Pikachu on a factory, since Pikachu STILL doesnt have a method to track him.

 

[Talonmask]

You keep thinking moves are non-canon when they use them in-game and it's hilarious.

Composite Canon Pikachu can only use moves from the anime, Manga or Red´s Pikachu.

HAHAHAHA.

SO FUNNY.

THIS IS THE FUNNIEST THING EVER.


Really, what in the world is "hilarious" to you? Seeing you grasping to non-canon material to see Pikachu, who is as smart as a street dog and can be disabled by Chaffies have a chance against Snake?


Electric Terrain again, stops tranqs and Sleeping Gas, stop arguing this.

YOU Stop arguing that.

Electric Terrain is not canon to Composite Pikachu.

If you want to use non-canon Pikachu, i can use non-canon Snake and have the Solar Gun and the Sorrow Doll.

Let´s see what happens.

http://metalgear.wikia.com/wiki/Screaming_Mantis'_dolls (Doesnt need nanos)

Pikachu just has to watch the Subtitute, wait to see the direction of what was thrown at its Substitute, then literally rush that direction, he will eventually hit a depression in the grass and figure out that something is there.

I have to remind you that Pikachu would have to dodge a bullet he didnt see coming, since Snake would most likely shoot him on the back and that Pikachu is as smart as a street dog.

And, again, Snake has methods to scape in the case Pikachu discovers him.

How do you hit something that's much faster than your reactions and speed altogether? You don't, regardless of Snake's technique, he loses in close quarters.

>How do you hit something that´s much faster than your reactions and speed altogether?

Again, Again, Again, Again.

Stealth, Sniper Rifles, shooting him on his back.

Pikachu won´t be running around since he does not know Snake is even there.

Okay.

Okay.

You obviously don't understand that the game is the primary canon, so telling me that Pokemon cannot use moves that they have proven to be able to use those moves in the primary canon is just... how do I put this lightly?

Your rebuttal has descended into "No you.", glad we've had an intelligent conversation.

Sniper rifles are slower than Pikachu try again.

I have to remind you that if a sbustitute is up, Snake will aim for the substitute, anything that isn't Snakes more top of the line weaponry will not break it, so he will have to give up his position in order to realize it was a ploy.

Blantant fanboyism is very apparent.

 

[Mikoto_Misaka231]

I didn't say he was smarter than Snake, I said he's not "as intelligent as a street dog"

It still does not give us a reason to imply Pikachu would use substitute or go on the defensive out of nowhere.


It´s the equivalent of a normal man hiring guards every single time he walks the street because "SOMEONE MIGHT BE SNIPING ME!"

 

[Talonmask]

I wasn't arguing that his rifle would be affected by the tranquilzer, I said that his mines would, which you obviously didn't pay attention to.


Pikachu has no resistance to Sleep gas nor tranqs.

Or...you might want to show me scans of Red´s Pikachu, Manga or Anime Pikachu resisting to sleeping gas. (And i KNOW he doesn´t in the games.) or tranquilizers on his bloodstream.

Also, his OctoCamo was rendered useless in the microwave, only his nanomachines and Solid Eye remained intact, Thunder Wave will disable it.

>Pikachu shocking Snake for over 5 minutes non-stop, and being comparable to microwaves.

Of course, like you have presented a form on which Pikachu could find Snake.

Stealth Camo is inmune to EMPs, tho.

Regardless if he can shoot small objects fine, this small object is faster than anything he has actually faught.

Is an animal.

Who will be standing still since he cannot detect or have a reason to run around since Snake has not revealed himself.

Yes, because the moving box fools everyone.

That box is invisible to thermal and xray.

Not that he would use it on the middle of the jungle or something.

I can see Snake fooling Pikachu on a factory, since Pikachu STILL doesnt have a method to track him.

Rinse and repeat, see above for an actual rebuttal to half of your points that you just won't accept.