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Social Influencing - Rework

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XxZetsuxX

XxZetsuxX

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Hello all, so, I noticed that the Social Influencing page lacks justifications even though it is the strongest abilities of most of the intelligent manipulators in fiction. This will be small.

This was made with the help of @RoggerReggor.

The current explanation explains only charming people through natural charm or way of speaking, or even their appearance/looks, but I believe we can add different types of social influencing, considering how our wiki has many characters who can specialize in one form of influencing let's take for example, deceiving people in part of their plans in manipulation, but lack the other, like actual social skills and said to be socially awkward.
- For example, there are characters like L Lawliet (from Death Note) who actually are great deceivers and can manipulate people like Light Yagami and the entire police task force, but they are often said to be creepy (by characters like Misa Amane from the series itself) and can easily be pointed out to be socially awkward.

So, I am going to propose an addition of different types of social influencing, which should be added to character pages so that a character, with their suitable feats, can be argued to have a certain type of influencing:

Social Position and Reputation: Characters who possess a high level of position in the society or are heavily respected in their setting, which allows them to control an individual or a group of people. In cases where a character in question with high position or reputation is being used by another person behind the shadows, the character doesn't qualify for having this kind of influencing.
Instigating Fear: Characters who can in some way or the other, instigate fear and affect thinking or confidence of another person in their verse. The ways the characters use may include usage of position or a reputation in their verse, having an appearance or a certain feature in their appearance which other characters in the verse perceive as creepy or scary and easily feared by it or driving other characters into situations where they are set to feel fear, etc. This differs from fear manipulation as this doesn't involve any supernatural factor and is escapable through simple willpower or confidence.
Seduction: Characters who can in some way or the other entice a person to get into a romantic or sexual relationship with them, or at least make them feel infatuated towards themselves. The ways the characters use may include using their beautiful appearance, making a strategy to make a person fall for themselves or using their charm. Most of the characters who are perceived as having an attractive appearance can do this kind of influencing using it as an advantage, however, in cases they are unaware of their advantages may not qualify for this without further context.
Deception: Characters who can in some way or the other deceive a person to lead them in a wrong direction. The ways the characters use may include bluffing, misdirection (by making fallacies or purposefully hiding information and giving half information) or scamming them.
Leadership: Characters who can in some way or the other lead an individual or a group of people to a path of success. This includes cases in which a character implements a strategy and plans for the success of a team or an individual. This can include even cases in which a character is motivating a person or a team and making them more confident. This is common among characters who have a high level of position in the society, since they are commonly perceived as leaders, but this differs from it as this may not include the characters having a definite social position and them just controlling everything from the shadows, or a figure in the team which is perceived as heavily motivating or administrating.
Charisma: Characters who can in some way or the other make other people trust in them or believe them wholeheartedly and charm them with their charisma.
Coercion: Characters who can make a person perform certain actions by blackmailing or threatening them. This differs from instigating fear as this directly involves making a person perform an action and blackmailing or threatening them is just a secondary factor.
Animal charming: Characters who can influence or naturally charm wildlife, pets or other creatures which aren't of their kind.

Please note: Characters need not to have these mentioned. Social Influencing doesn't have "types" like immortality or any other abilities. A character can satisfy any of these criteria and still have the ability. The different sections in the main abilities page aren't something which is allowed in the wiki format, it can always be added optionally by

Here is the draft for what the new ability page should be like:

vsbattles.fandom.com

Social Influencing P&A

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com


I am open to more kinds of additions, but I think the above covers all.

That's all.

Votes;

Agrees - DarkGrath, KLOL506, LordGriffin1000, DarkDragonMedeus, Mr._Bambu, Psychomaster35, DontTalkDT

Disagrees -
 
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This looks pretty good, for the most part. A bit wordy for a page for such a niche power, but I can't deny that I do think it's an improvement over its current state.

If I was to criticise anything, I'd note that some of these justifications are a bit broad. Referring to someone as '[a character] who can in some way or the other deceive a person to lead them in a wrong direction' does describe the likes of 'deceivers' like the Joker or Light Yagami, but it also applies to pretty much anyone who has ever told a lie and gotten away with it. There is a certain bar implied in just about any ability of a character, at the very least, being above what you'd expect from an ordinary human in the use of that ability, but the broad nature of these justifications gives me some concern that they may be applied to characters who aren't anything unusual and just have isolated instances of doing things an average person would. I would consider setting stricter boundaries with the descriptions.

Also, as a side-note: the draft page you've linked doesn't include the note at the bottom that you've included in the above post. I'm unsure if that was intentional or not, but I would think it's clearly better to have a note on the page clarifying that these aren't 'types' as much as they are just examples.
 
DarkGrath said:
This looks pretty good, for the most part. A bit wordy for a page for such a niche power, but I can't deny that I do think it's an improvement over its current state.
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Thanks!
DarkGrath said:
If I was to criticise anything, I'd note that some of these justifications are a bit broad. Referring to someone as '[a character] who can in some way or the other deceive a person to lead them in a wrong direction' does describe the likes of 'deceivers' like the Joker or Light Yagami, but it also applies to pretty much anyone who has ever told a lie and gotten away with it. There is a certain bar implied in just about any ability of a character, at the very least, being above what you'd expect from an ordinary human in the use of that ability, but the broad nature of these justifications gives me some concern that they may be applied to characters who aren't anything unusual and just have isolated instances of doing things an average person would. I would consider setting stricter boundaries with the descriptions.
Click to expand...
Mabye add to character who are extremely good in decieving and have done it in some way that benefits in mind/physical battles perhaps?
DarkGrath said:
Also, as a side-note: the draft page you've linked doesn't include the note at the bottom that you've included in the above post. I'm unsure if that was intentional or not, but I would think it's clearly better to have a note on the page clarifying that these aren't 'types' as much as they are just examples.
Click to expand...
Will do!
 
XxZetsuxX said:
Mabye add to character who are extremely good in decieving and have done it in some way that benefits in mind/physical battles perhaps?
Click to expand...
Something along those lines. The main idea of indexing abilities is to consider how they would operate in the context of versus debating, so I would think reworking the descriptions to entail that they are hypothetically combat-applicable would address the issue.
 
DarkGrath said:
Something along those lines. The main idea of indexing abilities is to consider how they would operate in the context of versus debating, so I would think reworking the descriptions to entail that they are hypothetically combat-applicable would address the issue.
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Alright (y)
 
I wouldn't put those things under "Types", but under "Possible Uses". That way you don't need that note. Listing applications without separating the abilities into categories that are to list is basically what the Possible Uses section is for.

And aren't charisma and seduction pretty much the same thing, practically speaking? Specifically, seduction seems like a subset of charisma.
 
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DontTalkDT said:
I wouldn't put those things under "Types", but under "Possible Uses". That way you don't need that note. Listing applications without separating the abilities into categories that are to list is basically what the Possible Uses section is for.

And aren't charisma and seduction pretty much the same thing, practically speaking? Specifically, seduction seems like a subset of charisma.
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This makes sense to me.🙏

Also, as I think DarkGrath said, it is important that our standard requirements still emphasize superhuman amounts of persuasion and charisma if thIs revision is accepted.
 
What do you refer to, more specifically?

I think that seduction should probably be a subset of charisma, if that is what you mean.
 
Couple of errors in this draft.
Johan Liebert manipulates people by understanding the human emotions very easily
Click to expand...
The word "the" here doesn't make sense. Remove that.
While this ability doesn't directly play a role in combat, it can be used by a character to demotivate their opponent, gaslighting them, buying time, extorting important information and manipulating them to approach a situation in a different way.
Click to expand...
Inconsistent verb tenses. My suggestion is to exchange every instance of the present progressive verbs (those ending in "-ing") and convert them to simple present (similar to the first instance, "demotivate"). That's the best way to handle this while keeping the writing consistent.
The ways the characters use may include usage of position or a reputation in their verse, having an appearance or a certain feature in their appearance which other characters in the verse perceive as creepy or scary and easily feared by it or driving other characters into situations where they are set to feel fear, etc.
Click to expand...
"Feared" is not the correct word for this context. Change this to something like "scared."
The ways the characters use may include bluffing, misdirection (by making fallacies or purposefully hiding information and giving half information), Scamming them, Characters impersonating to be a character is deception.
Click to expand...
Random capitalization for "scamming," remove that. And that last section kind of makes no sense, I actually don't know what's being attempted to be said here. Please rewrite this.
Most of the characters who are perceived as having an attractive appearance can do this kind of influencing using it as an advantage, however, in cases they are unaware of their advantages may not qualify for this without further context.
Click to expand...
Forgot a word. Add "where" in between "cases" and "they."

Two other notes. Firstly, the note at the bottom seems to be unfinished. I realize this is probably because of the WIP nature of this blog, but that should be seen to.

Secondly, you have two examples from Tokyo Revengers. For the sake of variety, I would insist you substitute one of these choices for something else.
 
Starter_Pack said:
Couple of errors in this draft.

The word "the" here doesn't make sense. Remove that.

Inconsistent verb tenses. My suggestion is to exchange every instance of the present progressive verbs (those ending in "-ing") and convert them to simple present (similar to the first instance, "demotivate"). That's the best way to handle this while keeping the writing consistent.

"Feared" is not the correct word for this context. Change this to something like "scared."

Random capitalization for "scamming," remove that. And that last section kind of makes no sense, I actually don't know what's being attempted to be said here. Please rewrite this.

Forgot a word. Add "where" in between "cases" and "they."

Two other notes. Firstly, the note at the bottom seems to be unfinished. I realize this is probably because of the WIP nature of this blog, but that should be seen to.

Secondly, you have two examples from Tokyo Revengers. For the sake of variety, I would insist you substitute one of these choices for something else.
Click to expand...
I will correct it
 
Starter_Pack said:
Inconsistent verb tenses. My suggestion is to exchange every instance of the present progressive verbs (those ending in "-ing") and convert them to simple present (similar to the first instance, "demotivate"). That's the best way to handle this while keeping the writing consistent.
Click to expand...
Can you check to see if this is what you meant?
Starter_Pack said:
And that last section kind of makes no sense, I actually don't know what's being attempted to be said here. Please rewrite this.
Click to expand...
A character who disguises himself as someone else to trick someone

A good example for this would be Sonic from (AOSTH) and Team Rocket

Starter_Pack said:
Two other notes. Firstly, the note at the bottom seems to be unfinished. I realize this is probably because of the WIP nature of this blog, but that should be seen to.
Click to expand...
I will correct it
Starter_Pack said:
Secondly, you have two examples from Tokyo Revengers. For the sake of variety, I would insist you substitute one of these choices for something else.
Click to expand...
Corrected
 
XxZetsuxX said:
Can you check to see if this is what you meant?
Click to expand...
You missed the last one. "Manipulate."
XxZetsuxX said:
A character who disguises himself as someone else to trick someone

A good example for this would be Sonic from (AOSTH) and Team Rocket
Click to expand...
Then I would rewrite that segment as:
The ways the characters use may include bluffing, misdirection (by making fallacies or purposefully hiding information and giving half information), or impersonating another character to further deceive others.
Click to expand...
Or something along those lines.
 
Does this come with the implication of us having to go through and classify all forms of social influencing that may or may not apply to a character, or is it just aiming to talk about what might qualify under the umbrella term of social influencing? The latter is fine, I suppose.
 
XxZetsuxX said:
It's pretty good, Though i'm curious as to why you removed the Tokyo Revengers verse from the social position/Reputation?

I will add another verse though no worries
Click to expand...
Tokyo Revengers gang leaders don't seem very impressive outside of their verse.
 
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