Snyderverse Revision(tier 7 or 6?)

[sanicspood]

I was joking

 

[RanaProGamer]

Cyborg didn’t damage them. He just weakened the unity. Superman split them so hard like u said, no longer functioned. The problem is, the explosion caused by the unity, wasn’t able to do this. So it still counts as high 6A

Not really a comparison, Cyborg hacked it in order to weaken it, completely different from durability. Watch this scene:
Or how the script goes:

[Batman] We’ll attack from above.

[Wonder Woman] Explosives won’t separate the boxes, only strengthen their bond.

[Barry] What? So we can’t blow it up?

[Cyborg] Not from the outside. I want to plug into The Unity, one-on-one. Fuse with it. Weaken its bond from the inside so we can break it back into three.

[Wonder Woman] No, you don’t know what you’d be up against. You’d have to stream into The Unity by yourself. These boxes together are world destroyers. A billion years old. They’ll get inside you and find your weaknesses and your fears, and use them to destroy you.

[Cyborg] Just get me in and get me time.

This exchange is proof that AP can't harm the boxes. But it can be weakened by hacking.

Further proof is this line: You’ll have to run faster than you’ve ever attempted to generate a charge of that size. And then you make physical contact with Victor. That force should propel him inside The Unity. And, Victor, it’s all up to you. Take it apart from the inside before it synchronizes.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Why it would be considered an outlier? For what reason?

Because it dwarfs everything else he's done by multiple orders of magnitude and the closest thing anyone has are Class M feats and a Class G guidebook statement.

 

[Therefir]

Was Superman shown having a hard time performing those feats?

 

[Vizer04]

I agree with @Therefir on this, the tectonic feat seems like an outlier but it really isn't when you think about it

 

[Hellbeast]

I agree with majority of your debunks but there’s a few things that need to be pointed out.

so we have 3. high 6A feats.
1. Doomsday busting the moon.(steppenwolf more than likely scales to this doomsday based of the fight being mentioned as a feat for steppenwolf and way to gauge his strength)

This is the only actual High 6-A here but the problem is it’s kinds finicky to scale Wolf to OG DD

All we know is he survived a battle with him; there’s a super wide range there and we don’t even know HOW said Doomsday shattered the moon (timeframe)

2. Zeus busting the unity

Unity shouldn’t scale to its dura; it has no outright feats for this and it’d be like scaling destroying a nuclear reactor to the energy it could, in turn, produce.

3. Superman, Cyborg and Flash destroying the motherboxes.

See above

2 things I need to address tho.

already accepted on the wiki that the motherboxes have multi continental durability since it would have to rank its own explosion.

Can I ask where? We’ve all agreed it shouldn’t scale in durability from its AP, it’s the whole reason Zeus is “High 7-A, likely far higher” rather then Multi-Continent

If it’s on the page that should be removed or just be reworked as part of a likely far higher

Second thing is, flash only pushes Victor into the motherboxes, Victor weakens the unity but Superman destroys the motherboxes. Which was accepted to have multi continental durability.

1) Flash still needed to produce plenty of energy for Victor to even access the Mother boxes
2) Victor was actively manipulating the Boxes
3) it shouldn’t have High 6-A durability

surely u can see the consistency here

I can but the problem is that scale misses a lot of the context at play here

 

[sageof8paths]

Not really a comparison, Cyborg hacked it in order to weaken it, completely different from durability. Watch this scene:
Or how the script goes:

[Batman] We’ll attack from above.

[Wonder Woman] Explosives won’t separate the boxes, only strengthen their bond.

[Barry] What? So we can’t blow it up?

[Cyborg] Not from the outside. I want to plug into The Unity, one-on-one. Fuse with it. Weaken its bond from the inside so we can break it back into three.

[Wonder Woman] No, you don’t know what you’d be up against. You’d have to stream into The Unity by yourself. These boxes together are world destroyers. A billion years old. They’ll get inside you and find your weaknesses and your fears, and use them to destroy you.

[Cyborg] Just get me in and get me time.

This exchange is proof that AP can't harm the boxes. But it can be weakened by hacking.

Further proof is this line: You’ll have to run faster than you’ve ever attempted to generate a charge of that size. And then you make physical contact with Victor. That force should propel him inside The Unity. And, Victor, it’s all up to you. Take it apart from the inside before it synchronizes.

I don’t think u understand my point. My point is victors hacking didn’t destroy it but merely paved the way for Superman to do it. Physical force was needed

 

[sageof8paths]

Was Superman shown having a hard time performing those feats?

He had a hard time performing the high 6A feats but not any of the 7A calcs

 

[sageof8paths]

This is the only actual High 6-A here but the problem is it’s kinds finicky to scale Wolf to OG DD

All we know is he survived a battle with him; there’s a super wide range there and we don’t even know HOW said Doomsday shattered the moon (timeframe)

Unity shouldn’t scale to its dura; it has no outright feats for this and it’d be like scaling destroying a nuclear reactor to the energy it could, in turn, produce.

See above

Can I ask where? We’ve all agreed it shouldn’t scale in durability from its AP, it’s the whole reason Zeus is “High 7-A, likely far higher” rather then Multi-Continent

If it’s on the page that should be removed or just be reworked as part of a likely far higher

1) Flash still needed to produce plenty of energy for Victor to even access the Mother boxes
2) Victor was actively manipulating the Boxes
3) it shouldn’t have High 6-A durability

I can but the problem is that scale misses a lot of the context at play here

Before I adress your points, I have a question. If I can prove the motherboxes durability scale to its explosion and can the doomsday feat be used as a supporting feat?

for the motherboxes to output multi continental feats and not get destroyed itself, it would have to have multi continental durability.

we know it’s not the first time the unity has been used because darkseid says he’s used it 100k times to turn worlds to dust.

so I have proven the mother boxes should scale to the unity.

the nuclear reactor point is irrelevant cuz it also gets destroyed while mother boxes don’t.

regardless of how they stopped the boxes superman should somewhat scale to it although zeus’s feat is more than likely more impressive but again, keep in mind Zeus just split it while JL destroyed it.

the problem with this is Zeus was barely able to do any damage to darkseid with the same attack he used to split the boxes while in the official story board for jl 2 and 3 drawn by Jim Lee, Superman is shown doing better against darkseid than Zeus did.

 

[Teezar]

Just so you know high 6A can still be written as peak superman than saying outlier though I don't remember much on Snyderverse.

 

[sageof8paths]

Just so you know high 6A can still be written as peak superman than saying outlier though I don't remember much on Snyderverse.

Talk to them. They’re acting like the 7A calcs where peak characters trying their hardest calc.

 

[Teezar]

I saw it above somewhere but due to network issues It lagged ajd I skipped the reply.

 

[Vizer04]

the nuclear reactor point is irrelevant cuz it also gets destroyed while mother boxes don’t.

That's actually a good point

 

[Qawsedf234]

it would have to have multi continental durability.

Not really. The terraforming in both the Canon and SnyderCut isn't done in a way that really AP scales. The canon cut takes a really long time and just alters material into something else, and the SnyderCut is some matter exchange thing that transforms the surface of a planet to match Apokolips and turns the inhabits into parademons.

[Victor] A box has the power to reinstate anterior particle relationships. So, you mean in the way that particles of matter can’t be created or destroyed, their relations just transform. Burn down a house, the particles still exist. Particles of house become particles of smoke. Anybody with a match can turn a house to smoke.

But a Mother Box…turns smoke back into a house.

They’re change machines. The boxes don’t think in terms of healing or killing, alive or dead. They rearrange matter at the will of their masters, regenerate, reinstate.

You don't need to have High 6-A durability to withstand a atomic reconstruction wave. You need matter manipulation resistance.

 

[Hellbeast]

Before I adress your points, I have a question. If I can prove the motherboxes durability scale to its explosion and can the doomsday feat be used as a supporting feat?

1) DD would need a new calculation
2) only if you prove it without a shadow

for the motherboxes to output multi continental feats and not get destroyed itself, it would have to have multi continental durability.

The problem there is we have no timeframe for the terraforming and the Snyder Boxes work via molecular manipulation.

THeyf need resistance to endure it not durability

we know it’s not the first time the unity has been used because darkseid says he’s used it 100k times to turn worlds to dust.

He’s talking about after he lost the Unity, listen to his speech

the nuclear reactor point is irrelevant cuz it also gets destroyed while mother boxes don’t.

No it doesn’t??? The whole point of a nuclear reactor is to produce energy. My point is it’s not proof the Box ensures it’s own blasts

regardless of how they stopped the boxes superman should somewhat scale to it although zeus’s feat is more than likely more impressive but again, keep in mind Zeus just split it while JL destroyed it.

Zeus also split them with much less effort then Supes did with aid.

the problem with this is Zeus was barely able to do any damage to darkseid with the same attack he used to split the boxes while in the official story board for jl 2 and 3 drawn by Jim Lee, Superman is shown doing better against darkseid than Zeus did.

1) because Darkseid blocked it with his staff; it’s a durability feat for the staff not Uxas
2) those storyboards are irrelevant, very different from what we know Snyder was planning to go with

 

[RanaProGamer]

I don’t think u understand my point. My point is victors hacking didn’t destroy it but merely paved the way for Superman to do it. Physical force was needed

Oh my bad, but what's to say that it requires High 6-A AP to split the boxes? They stopped functioning as soon as it split. As you said, Cyborg made it easier for Supes to split it after he weakened it.

PS, looking back at most of the dialogue, the Mother Boxes stopped functioning after they were split by Zeus, and only started functioning again after Superman died. So yeah, splitting them alone stops them from functioning, you just need the AP to split it, not destroy it.

 

[Tetsucabrah]

Why is the WoG not sufficient?

 

[RanaProGamer]

Can I ask where? We’ve all agreed it shouldn’t scale in durability from its AP, it’s the whole reason Zeus is “High 7-A, likely far higher” rather then Multi-Continent

I think it can be reworked, like can we really give the Mother Boxes High 6-A durability, if the High 6-A attack is done over time? I think it can be "At Least High 7-A, likely far higher" since it didn't get any damage from Zeus' blast, as Zeus only was able to split it. Also, the AP needed to damage the Mother Boxes =/= the AP needed to split it.

 

[Hellbeast]

I think it can be reworked, like can we really give the Mother Boxes High 6-A durability, if the High 6-A attack is done over time? I think it can be "At Least High 7-A, likely far higher" since it didn't get any damage from Zeus' blast, as Zeus only was able to split it. Also, the AP needed to damage the Mother Boxes =/= the AP needed to split it.

I'm fine with a likely far higher, it's consistent with Supes and the Old Gods being >>> everyone else

 

[sageof8paths]

PS, looking back at most of the dialogue, the Mother Boxes stopped functioning after they were split by Zeus, and only started functioning again after Superman died. So yeah, splitting them alone stops them from functioning, you just need the AP to split it, not destroy it.

desaad implies even if darkseid pulled up to earth, they still wouldn’t work as he says “what are we gonna do now that the mother boxes have been destroyed”

 

[sageof8paths]

I think it can be reworked, like can we really give the Mother Boxes High 6-A durability, if the High 6-A attack is done over time? I think it can be "At Least High 7-A, likely far higher" since it didn't get any damage from Zeus' blast, as Zeus only was able to split it. Also, the AP needed to damage the Mother Boxes =/= the AP needed to split it.

We see them doing the attack in seconds when cyborg see’s the future. Can it and the doomsday stuff be calced before we continue this?

 

[sageof8paths]

You don't need to have High 6-A durability to withstand a atomic reconstruction wave. You need matter manipulation resistance.

Rewatching the scene where flash goes back in time, the mother boxes destroy the surface of the earth before they turn it into apokolips

 

[RanaProGamer]

desaad implies even if darkseid pulled up to earth, they still wouldn’t work as he says “what are we gonna do now that the mother boxes have been destroyed”

It's cuz Superman is alive. The Mother Boxes can not function if they can sense Earth's strongest protectors. Once Superman died, the Mother Boxes sent a signal to Steppenwolf, stating that Earth's forces do not have the strength to combat him. Which is why they needed Superman. Look at this dialogue.

[Aquaman] Even if Superman could return, who’s to say that he could defeat them?

[Bruce] The Mother Box did. Victor’s father activated a Mother Box more than a year ago when Superman was still alive. Didn’t call out to Steppenwolf. None of the boxes did. Not until…

[Wonder Woman] Not until Superman died.

[Bruce] Not until Superman died.

[Barry] It’s like they were afraid of him?

[Bruce] Yes, they were afraid of him. This is the only way. There are six, not five. There is no us without him.

Hell, even Steppenwolf acknowledges it.

[Steppenwolf] The Mother Boxes will be found and united. No protectors here. No Lanterns, no Kryptonian. This world will fall, like all the others.

 

[RanaProGamer]

We see them doing the attack in seconds when cyborg see’s the future. Can it and the doomsday stuff be calced before we continue this?

Yeah, put it up for calc request

 

[RanaProGamer]

Rewatching the scene where flash goes back in time, the mother boxes destroy the surface of the earth before they turn it into apokolips

We literally see Superman and Cyborg reconstruct from atoms when Flash is going back in time, so no, it was reconstructing Earth into Apokolips on an atomic level. There was no surface wipe, it was surface reconstruction.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Plus didn't they die from it. I don't see why they would scale to it. Some guys like Superman weren't even at the epicenter

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

The issue with the tectonic feat isn't that it's necessarily an outlier (though you could argue so), it's that it has way too many assumptions that even the original author says it's bullshit.

 

[Vizer04]

Again, why can't we just scale everyone to the Doomsday High 6-A feat?

 

[Qawsedf234]

I'm confused, why can't we just use the Doomsday feat?

Because we don't know how many attacks it took to crack the moon.

 

[sageof8paths]

It's cuz Superman is alive. The Mother Boxes can not function if they can sense Earth's strongest protectors. Once Superman died, the Mother Boxes sent a signal to Steppenwolf, stating that Earth's forces do not have the strength to combat him. Which is why they needed Superman. Look at this dialogue.

[Aquaman] Even if Superman could return, who’s to say that he could defeat them?

[Bruce] The Mother Box did. Victor’s father activated a Mother Box more than a year ago when Superman was still alive. Didn’t call out to Steppenwolf. None of the boxes did. Not until…

[Wonder Woman] Not until Superman died.

[Bruce] Not until Superman died.

[Barry] It’s like they were afraid of him?

[Bruce] Yes, they were afraid of him. This is the only way. There are six, not five. There is no us without him.

Hell, even Steppenwolf acknowledges it.

[Steppenwolf] The Mother Boxes will be found and united. No protectors here. No Lanterns, no Kryptonian. This world will fall, like all the others.

On darkseids profile it’s stated he should be above superman so idk bout this point.

 

[sageof8paths]

Yeah, put it up for calc request

How do I do that?

 

[sageof8paths]

We literally see Superman and Cyborg reconstruct from atoms when Flash is going back in time, so no, it was reconstructing Earth into Apokolips on an atomic level. There was no surface wipe, it was surface reconstruction.

Can u prove that it wasn’t atomic destruction then construction? Cuz like I said looking at the flash stuff it looks like it destroys before it constructs

 

[sageof8paths]

The issue with the tectonic feat isn't that it's necessarily an outlier (though you could argue so), it's that it has way too many assumptions that even the original author says it's bullshit.

In the novelization it’s stated the earthquake was able to cause tsunami’s. That would need a 7.5 magnitude according to Google so we don’t need to assume that.

 

[RanaProGamer]

On darkseids profile it’s stated he should be above superman so idk bout this point.

Look at the term I used, the Motherboxes don't function if Earth has strong protectors. Hell, from Steppenwolf's statement, even Green Lanterns were feared by the Motherboxes, yet in the flashback, Darkseid literally one shots one. So it doesn't matter if Darkseid is stronger, Supes exists, the Motherboxes are useless.

 

[Antvasima]

@Qawsedf234

So what, if anything, should we do here then?

 

[Qawsedf234]

Can u prove that it wasn’t atomic destruction then construction

It doesn't matter if it was conversion or destruction, the end result is that it's a matter manipulation attack. Not a destructive one.

 

[Qawsedf234]

So what, if anything, should we do here then?

Recalc the KE of the World Engine.

Also if someone could provide the actual novel excerpt that would be nice for the earthquake.

 

[Antvasima]

Recalc the KE of the World Engine.

Also if someone could provide the actual novel excerpt that would be nice for the earthquake.

Okay. Is anybody here willing to handle it, or should I ask some members for help?

 

[sageof8paths]

Recalc the KE of the World Engine.

Also if someone could provide the actual novel excerpt that would be nice for the earthquake.

I don’t have the novel but hell beast brought the tsunami earthquake stuff so maybe he’ll have it.

 

[Hellbeast]

On darkseids profile it’s stated he should be above superman so idk bout this point.

That’s shouldn’t be there, we have no idea how Darkseid stacks up to Clark