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SMT Revisions 3.0

Extreme123dz said:
First:
What About the tiering for this guy ?
Click to expand...
At least High 6-A, seeing as he kept pace with Nanashi, who defeated King Frost before then.

EDIT: If Ose scales to the likes of Matador (fighting Early-game Thor and Matador before Ose is mandatory), it may actually be At least High 6-A, possibly Low 2-C.
 
Jaakuace44, is Jose fought as a non-optionalboss or optional boss at all if is better not rate if he is a spawnable enemies ?
 
Ose is fought as a boss before Sukuna-Hokana in Apocalypse, and as a boss after fighting Matador and Thor in Nocturne. In both cases, the fight is mandatory.
 
DMB 1 said:
Speaking of the Fiends, are they like Low 2-C to 2-C?
Click to expand...
Matador is Likely Low 2-C from scaling to Loki. I imagine the other Fiends in Nocturne would scale from him.

Trumpeter is fought strictly after Demi-fiend has taken on Uriel, Gabriel, and Raphael, and so should be 2-A.

Mother Harlot is often either comparable or even superior to Trumpeter, as such should be 2-A.
 
Nedge1000 said:
I will create a profile for Belial. He is fallen angel created right after Lucifer and a Lucifer's Guard. He should be more powerful than Adramelech (Shin Megami Tensei) as he is boss much later than it.
He is also consistently portrayed as a powerful demon in SMT where in most game, he is level 99 and other 68-to over. In Devil Survivor, he is a contender for King of Baal Title.

https://megamitensei.fandom.com/wiki/Belial
Click to expand...
I will also make a profile for Lucifuge as he comparable to Belial and is also of the most powerful demons in the series. He also a non-optional boss in SMT IV Apocalypse like Belial. He refers to himsef as Lucifer's right hand which sould make him ore power than Adramelech (Shin Megami Tensei).

https://megamitensei.fandom.com/wiki/Lucifuge

Shemyaza would be 2-A as Lucifer's general and as a non-optional boss in SMT IV Apocalypse and Lucifer's general. He would more powerful than Adramelech (Shin Megami Tensei), Lucifuge, and Belial as he fought later. I will make a profile.

https://megamitensei.fandom.com/wiki/Abe

The justification is already on Hallelujah (Shin Megami Tensei)'s profile. I still need to fix his rating and update his problem.
 
Azrael would also be 2-A, seeing as he's fought after the battle with Adramelech and even manages to overwhelm Nanashi and his party (who had taken down not only Adramelech, but the Four Devas), to the point where Hallelujah had to step in and unleash his demon powers.
 
Azrael would be 2-A and I agree. I almost forgot about it. Edit: he was in the list of profile that I wanted to make so I would have remembered, to be honest.

I feel somewhat bad; we will end with a long scaling chain. It is still accurate nevertheless😁!
 
How many 2-A's are there in total, actually? It's starting to feel like more than half the big names are 2-A.
 
Jaakuace44 said:
How many 2-A's are there in total, actually? It's starting to feel like more than half the big names are 2-A.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't worry have the numbers. What matter is editing them and making accurate profiles. Case in point, Shonen profiles like Fairy Tail's got over 100 characters with scaling chains from affected a character with an appropriate tiering feats. Should be over 20 2-A though!

One another note, I will edit the Shining One's profile. It is highly outdated and it should be much closed to tiering rating of Anguished One's, I will update missing abilities and resistance. Anguished One's profile is still outdated as well as he is missing many resistances and abilities.
 
If you truly believe that all of the demons in his "true self" in Expanse and beyond...., well, all are 2-A at minimum (and Hope this would happen in SMTV e.e) :p
 
DMB 1 said:
I'm quite sure that with the last and this CTR, the 2-A scaling might get a bit bigger.
Click to expand...
DMB 1, it will

They still need 2-A feat or 2-A scaling though :p
 
Also, Hallelujah (Shin Megami Tensei)'s unknown rating is wrong; he is only dead wait for like the Sky Tower where the group was 2-A after defeating Shesha's first form. After, joining the group officially, he contributed in all the major boss fight against the Gods like the Heavenly Kings. Holding back, in human form, doesn't make him unknown; he is still 2-A. I can change the rating.

His first key is just his first appearance: Human (First Appearance) This is way too limited also.

This is not how key. Keys works by events, not just appearance.

Key: For characters who have transformation stages/power-ups or who become stronger through certain points of the story, insert those transformations/power-ups/timelines here in bold.

I will fix it.
 
Circular scaling on Ahriman and Noah still hasn't been fixed. Think I could change that stuff real quick?
 
Jaakuace44 said:
Circular scaling on Ahriman and Noah still hasn't been fixed. Think I could change that stuff real quick?
Click to expand...
It is not really circular scaling if then scaled by lore or feats.
 
I got a question: I think many Japanese Gods are 2-A:

In: U have a guest: It is revealed the sword is empowered by a Japanese God as stated by Take-Mikazuchi

https://imgur.com/pHHsCeY

https://imgur.com/IzphX9i

https://imgur.com/WFd8xp

https://imgur.com/efgBpOI

Take did up making a 2-A sword; One could view as 2-A feat.

https://megamitensei.fandom.com/wiki/Take-Mikazuchi


You also fight Aramisaki way after Shesha's battle:

https://megamitensei.fandom.com/wiki/Aramisaki

Amaterasu doesn't have a profile but she would be above Aramisaki. She is portrayed to be powerful in level 80 and above range. https://megamitensei.fandom.com/wiki/Amaterasu

There is 2-A Japanese God already, Masakado (Shin Megami Tensei). So, Tier 2-A for those who have the feat is not impossible from lore.

Also,you do fight Arahabiki likewise way after Shesha's boss fight. IN: [Tgt] Secure an Evac Point - https://megamitensei.fandom.com/wiki/Arahabaki

He is portrayed to be a powerful deity in many games in level 50.
 
Would beings such as Parvati, Lakshmi, and Sarasvati scale to the Trimurti? I feel like that'd be a stretch, considering they're often depicted as lower-level Megami race demons (well, maybe less so for Lakshmi, considering she's consistently one of the most powerful Megami), but I wanted to know what you guys think.
 
Jaakuace44 said:
Would beings such as Parvati, Lakshmi, and Sarasvati scale to the Trimurti? I feel like that'd be a stretch, considering they're often depicted as lower-level Megami race demons (well, maybe less so for Lakshmi, considering she's consistently one of the most powerful Megami), but I wanted to know what you guys think.
Click to expand...
I just found they scale to Mada: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Mada_(Shin_Megami_Tensei)

Mada scaled to Thor despite being like Endgame boss in Nocture; he would be 2-A not 2-C
 
Thor himself acts as one of the end-game bosses (you fight him a while after Mada and even Ahriman). He's also the strongest Kishin in the game, above the likes of Ahriman.

Though, you'd also have to take his SMTI counterpart, who is basically an early to mid-game boss, into account. Might mess with the scaling a bit.
 
Jaakuace44 said:
Thor himself acts as one of the end-game bosses (you fight him a while after Mada and even Ahriman). He's also the strongest Kishin in the game, above the likes of Ahriman.
Though, you'd also have to take his SMTI counterpart, who is basically an early to mid-game boss, into account. Might mess with the scaling a bit.
Click to expand...
Why is Thor 2-C if he is endgame boss in Nocturne when the protagonist is 2-A and even Ahriman is 2-A?
 
According to his profile he should also be superior to Surt, who is one of the final bosses in SMTI, thus being at least comparable to the likes of Uriel. Hell, Surt even acts as a late-game boss in the Diet Building, way before Demi-fiend fights Thor.

I'm... tempted to say him being so weak in SMTI is PIS, but I can't be too sure.
 
I think at this point, I'm almost entirely convinced all of the '2-A, possibly High 2-A' characters are '2-A, likely High 2-A'

Lucifer in SMT2 is clearly meant to at least be comparable to Satan, seeing as both of them serve the same role of accompanying Aleph on their respective routes.

And even if he's not confident that he'll defeat Satan, he implies it would be more of desperate struggle than an outright stomp.

In MTII, even, he refers to Satan as one of his former hounds. In the fight against both him and YHVH (in both MTII and SMTII, keep in mind), he is able to do a noticeable amoung of damage.

And while YHVH is later able to stomp Lucifer while he's on his own... well, it's likely he would be able to stomp Satan as well, in much the same way.

On a slightly unrelated note, I'm also not sure that the Names of YHVH are actually supposed to be that low on the scaling chain, considering they're still a threat to Aleph, even after his fight with Lucifer and Kuzuryu on the Neutral path. They should easily be comparable to those two, as they're actual end-game bosses.
 
Satan is most certainly stronger than Lucifer, considering he is supposed to be YHVH's primary aspect and his most powerful servant who stands closest to Him and His Glory than all others.

Lucifer could really only control Kuzuryu's one-headed form by feeding it with Magnetite energy, otherwise the thing is treated as a Divine Superweapon capable of destroying all of the Demon World, so I am pretty positive that it is above Lucifer.

The Names of YHVH should be comparable to Kagutsuchi, at the very least, since they are relatively random Avatars, as opposed to major ones such as Metatron and the Demiurge. Again, I say Boss Order isn't always the best way to scale SMT.

Well, in MegaTen II's case, I'd say Satan being a former servant of Lucifer is a case of Early-Bird Weirdness, since the guy is always portrayed as being a servant of YHVH and His primary aspect who always stood by His side.
 
Stronger, yes, but to what extent? Many 2-A's clearly outclass other 2-A's (Kagutsuchi would destroy Ouroboros or one of the Archangels, for instance). Being much stronger =/= inherently being of higher dimensionality.

I've deleted the point about Kuzuryu, as I understand I may have misinterpreted it. Hell, the fact that Lucifer wasn't confident he could defeat Satan, yet believed one head of Kuzuryu could outright proves that the latter is stronger.

Again, the names of YHVH are still a threat to Aleph, even at that point. And if they aren't major avatars, why would they be on the Ark along with Satan?

I agree that MTII is a bit of an odd case, so I agree that shouldn't be factored in so much.
 
Mind you, I'm not arguing for an outright High 2-A tier - that would be a bit much, honestly. I'm more saying that there's not quite as much uncertainty as we might have initially believed.
 
Out of curiosity, regarding Metatron's rating In Devil Survivor, wasn't he still portrayed as being somewhat comparable to Able even at the end game? He did mention leading an army against him after all and, while he did have help, he was still beaten by a team over 10 humans and demons rather than just Able.
 
@Jaakuace

Well, that is why Lucifer and co are "possibly High 2-A", they may scale from Satan (who in turn downward scales from YHVH due to being his strongest servant and primary aspect who always stands as the last challenge the Player faces before the Big Man Himself), but this is really uncertain, since Lucifer outright feared him in SMT II and was stomped by YHVH in MegaTen. It is mostly just a conservative estimate.
 
Fair enough, honestly. Though, YHVH tends to stomp most other demons anyway (Mouth of God says hi). I can see where you're coming from all the same.
 
Tyranno223 said:
Out of curiosity, regarding Metatron's rating In Devil Survivor, wasn't he still portrayed as being somewhat comparable to Able even at the end game? He did mention leading an army against him after all and, while he did have help, he was still beaten by a team over 10 humans and demons rather than just Able.
Click to expand...
I mentioned earlier why he doesn't scale
 
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