Small Madara ability addition

[HST_Master]

Nope, Sasuke did not know what it was either and again unlike sasuke only her arm was stopped.

In case you didn't remember Sakura was impaled. When she tried to punch madara the Limbo stops her. Sasuke tries to attack Madara and a armless Madara uses Limbo to stop him and stab him with his own Sword. Both make it seem like an invisible force stops them with them quivering to move past it.

 

[Rocker1189]

You could literally say the same about the Susano'o Blade and Sasuke. This is Cherrypicking at this point.

I am not cherry picking at all, 1 is a clear use of Limbo, and makes sense, only her arm was blocked, the other 2 is him remotely controlling an object or person, moving his susanoo sword and stopping sasuke mid air and the anime supports tk in both cases very easily. The one cherry picking is you, bringing contradicting evidence while claiming it helps your argument and skewing my arguments wrongly while clearly misunderstanding them.

 

[Rocker1189]

Unless I am drugged, the manga takes preference over the anime. And in the manga, you can see the panel where all are falling, with a sound effect, at the same time. You even see the cloud of debris lifting at the same time, you even see Naruto and Gaara reacting only after they were all hit. You also see a panel right after with individual images of each beast being grabbed by the chains of the Rikudo statue, despite the fact the image just above shows how the chains reach the 9 beasts at the same time.

manga takes precedence but anime is supporting evidence.

Yeah they were still sliding away from the hit, inertia is a thing.

Considering all the beasts are not the same distance from the statue it is clear it wont take the same time to reach all of them.

 

[Rocker1189]

And Lancelot, your argument has nothing to do with what I am saying, so what if Limbo was not finalised? Even if you were correct it clearly was not what was used on sasuke considering how massively differently it was depicted against the tailed beasts and against sasuke in both the manga and anime. And as for the anime the animators clearly knew what Limbo was and would not have made the weird wall TK in the anime version.

 

[HST_Master]

I am not cherry picking at all, 1 is a clear use of Limbo, and makes sense, only her arm was blocked, the other 2 is him remotely controlling an object or person, moving his susanoo sword and stopping sasuke mid air and the anime supports tk in both cases very easily. The one cherry picking is you, bringing contradicting evidence while claiming it helps your argument and skewing my arguments wrongly while clearly misunderstanding them.

No uing me isn't helping.

Yes it is Cherrypicking. You're perfectly fine with attempting to say Madara controlling his Susano'o Blade and Sasuke being stopped by the Limbo are the same despite being depicted differently in the anime and manga, but Sasuke and Sakura having similarities in the manga and slight differences in the anime isn't okay with you. And Lancelot is right. Manga does take preference.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

There's no support to give when the manga shows something explicitly different, which was the reason you even needed to bring up the anime in the first place. Funnily, the anime actually supports my interpretation.

He hits 3 beasts, the 2 Tails somehow doesn't notice and keeps talking (by this point the anime scene is obviously different, Matatabi was the first one hit and right after Son Goku) and then the rest of the Bijuu get hit. In the image of them all being blown away by the hit, all but the 3 first are being blown away at the very same time, like they were all hit simultaneously, or near simultaneously.

Inertia doesn't make Naruto and Gaara react when it's over like it happened in an instant or at the same time, the beasts not realize that the others have been hit, or all of them fall like they are getting hit at the same time. I really don't care how you try to phrase it, that's exactly how it looks. Feel free to find anyone that disagrees.

 

[Rocker1189]

No uing me isn't helping.

Yes it is Cherrypicking. You're perfectly fine with attempting to say Madara controlling his Susano'o Blade and Sasuke being stopped by the Limbo are the same despite being depicted differently in the anime and manga, but Sasuke and Sakura having similarities in the manga and slight differences in the anime isn't okay with you. And Lancelot is right. Manga does take preference.

What like you no you'd me in your first 5 arguments?


I am fine with saying that Madara remotely controlling his blades and remotely controlling sasuke into a stand still are the same yes.

Sasuke and Sakura have no similarities at all, we get a quick panel of sakura's hand being stopped whike being stabbed and nothing showing that she can not move then she is bailled out by sasuke an dNaruto.

Manga takes preference which is why I post it first and anime is supporting canon as always, it is not different for other manga and it is not different for Naruto.

 

[Rocker1189]

I am not going to waste time arguing this it is completely inconsequential to my point about TK. Some thing weird happened with first time use of Limbo and in the anime they made it look perfectly fine.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

-snip-

Yes, let's not waste time trying to explain how Limbo doesn't act like an invisible clone in the first named use of it, which would put into doubt Madara having Telekinesis!

I really don't care what you have time for, that doesn't change the fact that you'll need to explain that for "Sasuke gets TKed" to make sense. Also, try to not quote long comments or add the -snip-. That goes to Hst too if he can help it.

 

[Rocker1189]

Yes, let's not waste time trying to explain how Limbo doesn't act like an invisible clone in the first named use of it, which would put into doubt Madara having Telekinesis!

I really don't care what you have time for, that doesn't change the fact that you'll need to explain that for "Sasuke gets TKed" to make sense. Also, try to not quote long comments or add the -snip-. That goes to Hst too if he can help it.

Exceot it does not, we are just going to be going through exactly the same things over and over again, where you would say it happens at the same time and I would say it does not and then I would point out the anime as supportinging canon and how it shows things correctly while still keep Sasuke being stuck in a TK and you would tell me that the manga take preference(which I already know) and we would continue ad naseum completely wasting my and your time. I have already made your arguments for you.

 

[HST_Master]

In order to no you, you'd have to answer my argument beyond saying it's not an argument and saying I have no evidence in response to me point out your "evidence."

I am fine with saying that Madara remotely controlling his blades and remotely controlling sasuke into a stand still are the same yes.

Except they don't have any similarities at all, and unlike you, I can point out the similarities in Sakura and Sasuke and have.

Sasuke and Sasuke have no similarities at all, we get a quick panel of sakura's hand being stopped whike being stabbed and nothing showing that she can not move then she is bailled out by sasuke an dNaruto.

And Sasuke is stopped in one panel and stabbed in the next, your point? Not to mention the anime showings of Limbo are inconsistent as hell and have more consistentcy in the manga.

1st it's shown as a red impact on the bijuu

Then an Time skipish invisible wall with Sasuke.

Then a simple Box Mime effect on Sakura.

The manga simply has them as a Invisible Force attacking or defending.

 

[Rocker1189]

In order to no you, you'd have to answer my argument beyond saying it's not an argument and saying I have no evidence in response to me point out your "evidence."

Except they don't have any similarities at all, and unlike you, I can point out the similarities in Sakura and Sasuke and have.

Sasuke and Sasuke have no similarities at all, we get a quick panel of sakura's hand being stopped whike being stabbed and nothing showing that she can not move then she is bailled out by sasuke an dNaruto.

And Sasuke is stopped in one panel and stabbed in the next, your point? Not to mention the anime showings of Limbo are inconsistent as hell and have more consistentcy in the manga.

1st it's shown as a red impact on the bijuu

Then an Time skipish invisible wall with Sasuke.

Then a simple Box Mime effect on Sakura.

The manga simply has them as a Invisible Force attacking or defending.

Useless arguments as always.

sasuke is stopped in one panel then left floating for ages and then stabbed.

sakura is held up by his TSB and then a punch is blocked by a clone before being bailed by Team 7.

red impact never shows up on sasuke so cant be compare.

Box effect never shows on sakura (dont know why you say it does when I posted videos for you showing that it does not) and thus cant be compared either.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Except for the fact that the anime makes nothing look perfectly fine, still doing all of the things I mentioned that makes it look exactly like they are all being hit at once.

And you could actually argue your point. The only thing you mention is inertia, which doesn't change the fact that all the Bijuu are being blown away at the same time. You also don't address everyone reacting after the fact like it was instantaneous, or how the supposedly supporting anime version shows Matatabi clearly not reacting to the loud impact and shrieks of her 3 other siblings, alongside the sound of them hitting the ground. Less back and forth and more dropping the issue like you've actually given counter arguments.

And I am a bit mind boggled you have to ask what is my point. A clone of Madara isn't gonna hit all the Bijuu at the same time, or nearly the same time, so what else is left? A TK blast-like thing, that's pretty much what it looks like. So Sasuke being paralyzed unnaturally, by Occam's Razor, can easily be Kishimoto not imagining it like a clone and Madara just using it to paralyze Sasuke, no deeper thought about it. Saying the anime "obviously knows what it is" holds no meaning when what they reproduce is the exact same thing, changed around a little.

 

[Rocker1189]

When you use occam's razor to try and second guess the author's state of mind at that very moment you should know that you are not using occam's razor lmao.

It holds enough reason, the anime episode came out waay after we knew what Limbo was, in the anime when things are revealed they have a habit of changing originals around to better match what we now know from the manga. Since we knew what Limbo was, they would have depicted it more like Limbo in the anime if it was meant to be Limbo.

Your literally only issue with its depiction is that it hit all of them at seemingl the same time which is easily explained by speed. Nothing more nothing less and it was still completely different to what happened to sasuke so you stillc ant equate them, especislly after he tked his susanoo blades right before. You going to say that is Limbo too?

 

[HST_Master]

red impact never shows up on sasuke so cant be compare.

Nice try. All 3 of those instances prove Limbo is inconsistent in the anime.

Box effect never shows on sakura (dont know why you say it does when I posted videos for you showing that it does not) and thus cant be comapred to sasuke.

Again Nice Try, especially when I pointed out thay Sasuke had a Time Skipish effect for his Run in with Limbo. And when I mean Boxed Mime effect (Conveniently left out mime) I mean like a mime touching an invisible wall isntead of any of the previous effects for limbo.

sasuke is stopped in one panel then left floating for ages and then stabbed.

Dude I litterally posted the entire chapter.

Useless arguments as always.

10/10 response.

 

[Rocker1189]

Nice try. All 3 of those instances prove Limbo is inconsistent in the anime.

Again Nice Try, especially when I pointed out thay Sasuke had a Time Skipish effect for his Run in with Limbo. And when I mean Boxed Mime effect (Conveniently left out mime) I mean like a mime touching an invisible wall isntead of any of the previous effects for limbo.

Dude I litterally posted the entire chapter.

Useless arguments as always.

10/10 response.

No they dont the prove that Limbo and TK are different things, which we know. If he said Limbo as he did any of that the sasuke then I would agree, the one versus sakura Limbo was not attack, so of course no red effect because they show attacks not defence.

I did not get what you meant by mime, and again she simply punched a limbo unlike sasuke being lifted in the air.

Posting the entrie chapter was useless when you can post the useful parts instead.

10/10 response.

I try.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

... No. I am second doubting whether he had a solid idea what he wanted Limbo to be. Surprising, authors can change their mind or use incomplete ideas that haven't been fully conceptualized.

The anime coming way after doesn't change the fact that it recreates the scene exactly with the same problems I laid out with few minor changes.

... Yes, you were right about one thing. It's a waste of time, since the only thing you took away from that is "they all got hit at the same time".

 

[HST_Master]

No they dont the prove that Limbo and TK are different things, which we know. If he said Limbo as he did any of that the sasuke then I would agree, the one versus sakura Limbo was not attack, so of course no red effect because they show attacks not defence.

Dude, are you back to that "He only uses Limbo when it says it" argument? Because I've already proved that false. And yet when it's used several times against Naruto and Sasuke there's no Red Impact. Only proving more and more Limbo's showings is inconsistent in the anime. And you still have yet to point out any similarities between Sasuke and the Susano'o Blade.

I did not get what you meant by mime, and again she simply punched a limbo unlike sasuke being lifted in the air.

And both were quivering to get past it.

Posting the entrie chapter was useless when you can post the useful parts instead.

Only useless if it goes against your argument.

 

[Rocker1189]

... No. I am second doubting whether he had a solid idea what he wanted Limbo to be. Surprising, authors can change their mind or use incomplete ideas that haven't been fully conceptualized.
The anime coming way after doesn't change the fact that it recreates the scene exactly with the same problems I laid out with few minor changes.

... Yes, you were right about one thing. It's a waste of time, since the only thing you took away from that is "they all got hit at the same time".

Yes, they can and yet I dont believe that Limbo was working any differently to how it would work.

Which means that surprise surprise Kishimotto knew what he was doing with Limbo.

Because that is the crux of your argument.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

-snip-

You've failed to explain why that's the case is my main gripe.

Or they, unlike us, didn't care about the implications. Surprise surprise, authors don't care about vsbattles profiles. Want me to also bring up Stands needing breathing to be used but then that being dropped without an explanation in Jojo as one of many examples?

No, that's obviously the only thing that you saw. Oh well, I'll be leaving this. Not much point to arguing when you barely get a passing read to your points.

 

[Rocker1189]

You've failed to explain why that's the case is my main gripe.

Or they, unlike us, didn't care about the implications. Surprise surprise, authors don't care about vsbattles profiles. Want me to also bring up Stands needing breathing to be used but then that being dropped without an explanation in Jojo as one of many examples?

No, that's obviously the only thing that you saw. Oh well, I'll be leaving this. Not much point to arguing when you barely get a passing read to your points.

Why would I care about other manga? This is about Naruto. And yeah they dont care about vs battle profiles but they still care about getting their ideas right. Abilities are not vs battles wiki only and are a large part of shounen but I am sure you knew that.

The funny thing is that these panel disproves everythign you just said:

http://*****************/read-online/Naruto-chapter-659-page-12.html

http://*****************/read-online/Naruto-chapter-659-page-13.html

http://*****************/read-online/Naruto-chapter-659-page-14.html

http://*****************/read-online/Naruto-chapter-659-page-16.html

matatabi is hit first then the individual sounds and panels for each as they are hit, then you have the one large panels with each of them getting chained, showing that one does happen at the same time unlike them being hit indivually. Heck there is cleary travel time for the Limbo to get to them from the first panel, an entire panel where nothing is happening. Proving that kishi knows what Limbo is and how it works. I am arguing 2v1 it is kinda hard to put my full effort in both when one is a more distracting argument to the main thing I am arguing.

Also falling rocks mean nothing at the speeds that they are fighting at.

 

[Rocker1189]

Dude, are you back to that "He only uses Limbo when it says it" argument? Because I've already proved that false. And yet when it's used several times against Naruto and Sasuke there's no Red Impact. Only proving more and more Limbo's showings is inconsistent in the anime. And you still have yet to point out any similarities between Sasuke and the Susano'o Blade.

And both were quivering to get past it.

Only useless if it goes against your argument.

There is no red impact the other times because it is after they knew what it was. Naruto and sasuke at that point could sense and see it, the red impact was for first time use.

Sakura's hand is the only thing quivering, Sasuke's entire body is and again he is floating while sakura is held up by Madara, completely different.

Only useless if it goes against your argument.

But it does not, it supports my argument which is why it is useless for you.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

So still no solid proof from something concrete. Oh well. I'll at least hope more people come comment unlike the Kaguya CRT so this just doesn't die.

 

[Rocker1189]

So still no solid proof from something concrete. Oh well. I'll at least hope more people come comment unlike the Kaguya CRT so this just doesn't die.

The solid proof is what I have shown above in the post, susanoo blade was clearly TKed no matter what you think, the sasuke one is the main argument. And when I finally answer your argument with panels you randomly dont say anything about it lmao.

 

[HST_Master]

There is no red impact the other times because it is after they knew what it was. Naruto and sasuke at that point could sense and see it, the red impact was for first time use.

Sakura's hand is the only thing quivering, Sasuke's entire body is, completely different.

But it does not, it supports my argument which is why it is useless for you.

That makes no sense considering that Naruto had no idea what it was until Sasuke said something considering Naruto can only sense it. Alongside Sakura not knowing and having yet another different effect from previous showings. And yes there is such a thing as different perspectives, otherwise it would be always visible because Sasuke can see it.

Sakura's hand is quivering because she's interacting with the limbo and it's blocking her strike. In Sasuke's case his whole body is quivering because he was caught in mid-air by the limbo.

But it does not, it supports my argument which is why it is useless for you.

Except you just said that it's useless for you. Which is it.

 

[HST_Master]

And yet you've still been dodging my request that you show the similarities between Sasuke and the Susano'o Blade. Besides none.

 

[Rocker1189]

That makes no sense considering that Naruto had no idea what it was until Sasuke said something considering Naruto can only sense it. Alongside Sakura not knowing and having yet another different effect from previous showings. And yes there is such a thing as different perspectives, otherwise it would be always visible because Sasuke can see it.

Sakura's hand is quivering because she's interacting with the limbo and it's blocking her strike. In Sasuke's case his whole body is quivering because he was caught in mid-air by the limbo.

But it does not, it supports my argument which is why it is useless for you.

Except you just said that it's useless for you. Which is it.

Naruto did not know what it looked like but he could sense it this time, unlike before where you cant even say it was invisible it was completely unable to be sense.

Sakura not being able to see it is not an issue considering it never attacked her. Yeah only sasuke can see it and we as the audience dont have an explanation yet, so kishi wont show it.

Sakura's hand was quivering because she does not have strength matching Limbo, sasuke's entire body was quivering because he could not mosve past the TK.

Except you just said that it's useless for you. Which is it.

It is useless for you, not me.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Except I had already said how clearly the image with the chains shows a separate panel for each beast, just as the panel where they all get hurt by Limbo, but we also know they got chained at the same time. Singular panels don't show "successive" events, but to you that's evidently not the case. You also don't mention everyone reacting after they are all down, when Madara or his Limbo don't have the speed to hit all the 9 Bijuu before anyone even knows what's going on. So yes, I don't see why argument when this is all the counterargument I get.

You keep speaking about main point when your point is completely worth smoke if Limbo is shown working like TK before it's reveal, which is what it did with the Bijuu. So I am still mind boggled that you act like it's a minor and unimportant side point.

 

[PaChi2]

I love this argument.

Edit: I personally believed it was Limbo all along, but whatevs, really.

 

[Rocker1189]

Except I had already said how clearly the image with the chains shows a separate panel for each beast, just as the panel where they all get hurt by Limbo, but we also know they got chained at the same time. Singular panels don't show "successive" events, but to you that's evidently not the case. You also don't mention everyone reacting after they are all down, when Madara or his Limbo don't have the speed to hit all the 9 Bijuu before anyone even knows what's going on. So yes, I don't see why argument when this is all the counterargument I get.

You keep speaking about main point when your point is completely worth smoke if Limbo is shown working like TK before it's reveal, which is what it did with the Bijuu. So I am still mind boggled that you act like it's a minor and unimportant side point.

It was a quick panel with multiple events at once, of course they wont show reactions until after it happened.

But Limbo did not work like TK then in anyway, TK you would lift something or someone(like sasuke) and throw it, not literally smack someone in the face with it and TK does not have travel time which limbo did. because as we know a Limbo clone literally ran up to them in the time frame and then smacked each Tailed beast. Heck look at the onomatopeias used: Krak, SLam and Clod? how is that tk?


And again in the anime it was clearly smacks, not TK. You would have to think up of a weird TK to say it worked the way Limbo did against the tailed beasts.

 

[PaChi2]

"But Limbo did not work like TK then in anyway, TK you would lift something or someone(like sasuke) and throw it, not literally smack someone in the face with it and TK does not have travel time which limbo did. because as we know a Limbo clone literally ran up to them in the time frame and then smacked each Tailed beast."

Note that TK has many, many uses. And pushing people like what Limbo did in its first official appearence is one of them.

 

[Rocker1189]

"But Limbo did not work like TK then in anyway, TK you would lift something or someone(like sasuke) and throw it, not literally smack someone in the face with it and TK does not have travel time which limbo did. because as we know a Limbo clone literally ran up to them in the time frame and then smacked each Tailed beast."
Note that TK has many, many uses. And pushing people like what Limbo did in its first official appearence is one of them.

But it did not push them because as we see from the onomatopeia's in each panel and from the anime, they were each literally smacked int he face.

 

[HST_Master]

Naruto did not know what it looked like but he could sense it this time, unlike before where you cant even say it was invisible it was completely unable to be sense.

This proves Limbo's anime interactions are inconsistent how exactly? I've already said Naruto could sense but it was still an invisible force. And yet it still has a different showing than when the Bijuu, Sakura, and Sasuke interacted.

Sakura not being able to see it is not an issue considering it never attacked her. Yeah only sasuke can see it and we as the audience dont have an explanation yet, so kishi wont show it.

Yes we do. When Sasuke and Naruto 1st arrive together and fights him, Sasuke explained what Limbo was while he still has only one rinnegan. Sakura's interaction was when he got both his eyes back. And I enjoy how you're ignoring she still gets stopped by the Limbo.

Sakura's hand was quivering because she does not have strength matching Limbo, sasuke's entire body was quivering because he could not mosve past the Limbo.

FTFY. Seriously, you've yet to show any similarities in Sasuke and the Susano'o Blade no matter how many times I asked for some evidence. You completely ignore that the Anime..which supposedly supports you're argument, shows no similarities between Sasuke and the Susano'o Blade, and is inconsistent as hell in the showing of Limbo, only providing crumbling excuses. It's almost like, no it definitely is that you want people to believe that these 2 scenes connect off of no similarities based on your say so for the sake of an upgrade.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

PaChi, what are you doing awake at such an hour you criminal of the law?

 

[HST_Master]

Oh and btw.

Posting the entrie chapter was useless when you can post the useful parts instead.

This was you.

 

[PaChi2]

You arent really convincing me, TK is so broad in usage and depiction that the scene could perfectly fit. Im talking about the tailed beasts scene only.

 

[Rocker1189]

This proves Limbo's anime interactions are inconsistent how exactly? I've already said Naruto could sense but it was still an invisible force. And yet it still has a different showing than when the Bijuu, Sakura, and Sasuke interacted.


Yes we do. When Sasuke and Naruto 1st arrive together and fights him, Sasuke explained what Limbo was while he still has only one rinnegan. Sakura's interaction was when he got both his eyes back. And I enjoy how you're ignoring she still gets stopped by the Limbo.

FTFY. Seriously, you've yet to show any similarities in Sasuke and the Susano'o Blade no matter how many times I asked for some evidence. You completely ignore that the Anime..which supposedly supports you're argument, shows no similarities between Sasuke and the Susano'o Blade, and is inconsistent as hell in the showing of Limbo, only providing crumbling excuses. It's almost like, no it definitely is that you want people to believe that these 2 scenes connect off of no similarities based on your say so for the sake of an upgrade.

Because sasuke compared to the bijuu and sakura was in fact, not Limbo which is my entire point.

Her punch get stopped by the Limbo like I stated several times not sire where I ignored that anywhere, her body was stopped by Madara piercing her.

You are the one providing crumbling excuses and stating inconsistent to 2 things that are not the same, susanoo blade is supporting argument for tk sinice that is 100 percent TK then it is demonstrated on sasuke.

 

[Rocker1189]

You arent really convincing me, TK is so broad in usage and depiction that the scene could perfectly fit. Im talking about the tailed beasts scene only.

but he sais Limbo border jail and then is lag time, when the clone is moving up to them.

 

[PaChi2]

PaChi, what are you doing awake at such an hour you criminal of the law? </div>


Im European, w0t. Its almost 11 AM in here.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Fork, I actually didn't know that, I need to make friends here more. Or join the discord...

Anyway, I'll stop derailing.