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Slight Dialga and Palkia Revision

ProfessorKukui4Life

ProfessorKukui4Life

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This isn't a "big" revision or anything But I feel that Dialga and Palkia (and likely Giratina or at least Arceus if possible) should have an upgrade to their hax. If not asking too much, I think both should get Reistance/Immunity to Existence Erasure, or something of the latter like that.

Reason being is that I find it very strange how Dialga and Palkia, beings who make up and govern their very concepts, can fight so hard that it causes an area in reality where completely nothing exists (thus the concepts they rule are no longer there either), they enter that area while fighting, and aren't affected in the least bit possible. They just fight through it like it's literally not a big deal to them at all. It should be very logical for beings who make up something they govern to be erased when entering an area where nothing, including their said concepts, lies. So the fact that Dialga and Palkia can survive in a place where nothing exists without being so much as scratched, let alone erased, should support them getting the resistance/immunity to it, in my opinion anyway.

Does anyone see issues with this?
 
Not sure if I follow, but I guess existing where nothing can exist is resistance to Existence Erasure.
 
You refer to them existing outside spacetime, right? In that case existing outside spacetime is nothing, but existing outside spacetime. Essentially what every Immeasureable character can do.

Furthermore if it goes beyond that existing were nothing exist means just existing in a vaccuum, basically, just here to an higher extent. There isn't any particular power attacking them by existing there.


In general I also wouldn't encourage giving out resistance to existence erasure, since its essentially similar to giving resistance to reality warping: Having an actual resistance against it would imply and hence require showing to have resistance against every ability that has the effect of killing you / erasing you on any level. Which means nothing than having resistance to every offensive use of every ability.
 
I agree with DontTalk.
 
Im not sure what you mean by "existing outside space-time". It was only a limited area where both were fighting in that was in complete nothingness, hence their infinite/immeasurable speed rating in the first place.

If they didnt have the resistance to survive being in a place where neither concept they embody no longer existed, then why werent they both instantly just erased prior to that happening? Even their sealed forms (or more specifically, avatars) weren't effected, scratched, let alone erased or completely destroyed in any way upon entering that part of their clash. They just entered it after making it complete nothingness due to their clash and they weren't fazed at all. They acted as if nothing happened.

Besides, werem't they the one's who created everything in the multiverse for Arceus after he made them? And have Conceptual Manipulating to an extent? If both or either of these things are correct then it's not farfetched to say they have resistance to every said ability they brought forth into the verse they subsequentally created, especially if it's coming from pokemon infinitely weaker than them.
 
Existing in a void is not the same thing as being resistant to attacks that reduce you to a void, as far as I understand.
 
Didnt even think of that, thanks Genji

And as far as I know, Dialga and Palkia didnt even use their signature moves to erase Darkrai. They just used a simple Hyper Beam and Aura Sphere to do so

Heck once they entered Alamos Town i believe they were starting to erase it just by being there, fighting.
 
Well, the crucial issue is whether they were targeted by existence-erasing attacks, or were just present in an area independent of existence.
 
@Ant They weren't targeted by existence-easing attacks, but they were present in a area that was already erased of existence as they attacking against each other in that very town. I have watched that Said movie twice just to be sure.
 
Well they DID manage to make an area where theres no existence just by fighting. Does that imply they released existence erasing attacks (which they can still survive effortlessly)?

Also in case I forget as I gtg now, Dialga did a similar feat in MD. Despite the future being totally gone, Dialga could still completely revive the player who comes from said future.
 
Well, if their attacks actively destroyed existence, and they targetted each other with them, I suppose that might count as a "Possibly Resistance to Existence Erasure", but not immunity to it.
 
I suppose so. What do you think DontTalk?
 
Resistance is good. I have np with either Resistance or Immunity. I just feel that they should have one of the 2 for the fact that they can create an area where nothing, not even their concepts, exists, then they enter it and fight as if nothing bad is happening to them. And the fact that they already have feats in-verse of erasing things with just their mere presence, as well as reviving things from non-existence, should solidfy it even more.

But if we transfer this over to Arceus would he have immunity to it? Or just a higher level resistance?
 
Resistance. I think that immunity implies that higher tiers of beings couldn't erase them.
 
@The real cal howard Has this been fixed, or do you need their profiles temporarily unlocked?
 
Okay. I will unlock them.
 
I lost sight of this discussion for a bit. Sorry for just saying something now.

Every immeasureable being is immune to spacetime manipulation of lower planes, including spacetime erasing attacks, because they exist outside of it. That isn't a specific resistance, just something that comes with that ranking.

Aside from that let me note that they existed in a place were spacetime not existed, not were the concept of spacetime not existed. That is a difference.


That aside let me repeat again: It is a bad idea to ever give out resistance to existence erasure, since it implies resistance against everything, which is unproveable.

Tanking attacks that destroy matter, energy and spacetime would imply resistance just against attacks that reduce matter, energy and spacetime to nothing. Not more not less.
 
That is a very good point. Sorry about not making it myself. I am very tired and disoriented in general nowadays. Too many different tasks to keep track of at once.
 
He means immeasurable in the sense of being higher-dimensional, not in terms of speed.
 
The real cal howard said:
In that case, wouldn't they be upgraded to immeasurable instead of infinite?
Click to expand...
Oh, sorry I had in mind that they were immeasureable in that form, not infinite.

Given that one can get infinite otherwise, I suppose in this case it makes sense to give them resistance to spacetime erasure.
 
Antvasima said:
That is a very good point. Sorry about not making it myself. I am very tired and disoriented in general nowadays. Too many different tasks to keep track of at once.
Click to expand...
Nothing to aplogize for. I myself am so busy that I don't get anything properly managed and constantly forget that I have to answer certain threads (even though I have a list). So I am not any better in that regards.
 
@Dont: Well both Dialga and Palkia sealed forms can only reside on 3-D space. Both sealed forms are 4-D beings that are restricted to 3-D due to the red chains.Their attacks passively erased everything in the city(including living entities). Implying void manipulation given the fact that Space-Time manipulation can't erase things from existence.
 
GenjiTheGreat said:
@Dont: Well both Dialga and Palkia sealed forms can only reside on 3-D space. Both sealed forms are 4-D beings that are restricted to 3-D due to the red chains.Their attacks passively erased everything in the city(including living entities). Implying void manipulation given the fact that Space-Time manipulation can't erase things from existence.
Click to expand...
No, destroying the space-time of living 3D beings would most certainly kill and erase them, no void manipulation necessary.
 
Erasing entities in the sourroundings at most implies erasing matter, at worst is just a passive effect of erasing spacetime, since if the spacetime you are currently standing in is erased the mass in it usually is gone together with the spacetime.

Resisting existence erasure in total means resisting any form of getting erased. Matter, energy, mind, soul, concept, the spacetime you exist in and the effect of every ability imagineable that might erase you. That can not even be demonstrateable in its entirety.

So as said, the fact that they can tank each others spacetime erasing attacks would be resistance to spacetime erasure, not more.
 
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