Skill Debate: Yujiro vs Hayato

[Firephoenixearl]

Well they are dojo owners so in terms of strength they should be superior to kenichi. And besides if raw strength was the way to beat it they wouldn't have used 0 strength to begin with.

All 4 together would have trashed him. You're just taking out important skill sets from doppo and yanagi. And important point neither of those 2 is actually kenichi or miu level. Let alone shibukawa taking on 2 middle class, 4 hcd and 2 expert class at the same time and be able to defeat them in seconds with the odds of the group winning not reaching 1/1million

 

[BakiHanma18]

So that would lead me to think that Shibukawa's technique is more impressive.if someone uses 100% skill to trash someone physically comparable to a 9-A, then the skill is achieving a 9-A level of strength, her skill can compensate for a 9-A level strength gap. If you want to use Vs Battle stats Shibukawa is using barely any strength to trounce a 7-C, or strictly within the manga and continuity of Baki, a weak old man is trouncing someone that can harm someone that can survive getting nuked. Even being generous and saying Shibukawa is 9-A within the Baki continuity, that's still a gap of less than 9-A (due to using little strength) to harming someone roughly nuke level. Shibukawa's technique is compensating way more of a gap

Wrong, they would be handled quite easily. First, to address Doppo, let's take someone with his exact same level of skill, but give them a different moveset. Dopp stand-in would not be able to so much as touch Shibukawa. Now let's look at Yanagi, who literally fought Shibukawa, almost got beat in one hit, and immediately resorted to cheating. I feel like that one's pretty obvious. I haven't received any expert level feats, but under the circumstances you mentioned earlier, Katsumi, Retsu, Doppo, and Doyle, Shibukawa wins with mid diff

 

[Firephoenixearl]

That's just using vsbw tiers. But either way when we go further down the line we'll reach mikumi who trashes 8b likely up to low 7c with 0 strength so let's move on.

That's not really how you go by things. It's about taking on those same people. Or if not if you want to argue that shibukawa could win in a fight against all the kenich people i mentioned at the same time im down

 

[BakiHanma18]

That's just using vsbw tiers. But either way when we go further down the line we'll reach mikumi who trashes 8b likely up to low 7c with 0 strength so let's move on.
That's not really how you go by things. It's about taking on those same people. Or if not if you want to argue that shibukawa could win in a fight against all the kenich people i mentioned at the same time im down

Okay, so using the continuity of solely Baki mangas and animes, Yujiro is compared to or said to be superior to a nuke over 5 times and Oliva could not only damage a Baki that can damage Yujiro, but Yujiro has also claimed that he wouldn't want to take a direct hit from Oliva. Shibukawa, the second physically weakest character in Baki, while only using a small portion of his casual strength, trounces both Oliva and someone 6x larger than him. So a roughly 10-B, possibly 10-A, using a small portion of his strength, trounced a straight up 7-C

How is that not how it goes? It terms of strictly overall combat skill, technique is irrelevant. If someone is considered equals to a karate master, but they practice Istunka, they are still skill equals, regardless of the fact that the skills and techniques they know are entirely different

 

[Firephoenixearl]

He'd be at least around 9-B or 9-A for being superior to kaku who could break chairs, but either way 0 strength. Kenichi already tops this.

If you cannot counter techniques from high disciple class you're not master class, simple as that. Again want to debate who'd win in a stats equal fight, kenichi vs shibukawa? Im not even gonna bother counting the rest of the group that a master class trashed:

Someone likely in the same league of Fortuna (who as Tanimoto said is basically the garbage of master classes), but significantly stronger (they said he cannot be compared to Fortuna, but they did not compare him to any other master class fighter, so it's likely he's closer to Fortuna than other Master Classes). Can take on 1 Middle class Disciple, 5 very High Class Disciples and 2 Expert Class Disciples at the same time and have a basically non existent chance of losing (their chance of winning against the master class was 1/1 million). And could still deal with Sakaki intruding by attacking him everytime he tried to kill any of them. And Sakaki's pulling him so that their attacks wouldn't miss. Stated to be able to kill all of them in seconds.

 

[BakiHanma18]

Again, let's be generous and say Shibukawa is peak 9-A, he's still barely using any of his casual strength and manhandling walking nukes. The amount of physical strength that Shibukawa is compensating for with skill is still higher than 0 strength to 9-A

None of this has been to get Baki characters to a certain class in Kenichi, this is a skill comparison. Regardless of techniques used, this is a measure of skill, so if someone with the exact same level of skill as Doppo without Doppo's techniques gets trounced by Shibukawa with the stand-in landing not so much as a scratch, Shibukawa scales to above him in skill. Someone can be as skilled as a master class or supermaster class or whatever without actually qualifying to be said classes

As for 1 Mid and 5 very High, while I'm not sure as to what their chances are, they almost 100% would not be able to touch him. As I mentioned before, I don't know any feats for Expert classes, so I don't know how their inclusion would change things, but without them, Shibukawa stomps so far

 

[Firephoenixearl]

You missed my point, whatever it is Kenichiverse tops via having Kushinada who stomps 8-B's with 0 strength. Let's move on.

Yes, but why would Shibukawa be higher than Kenichi in terms of skill, if Kenichi can pretty much counter or replicate anything he can do.

Anyway im tired of this. Idc where they stand anymore, just bring me the feats i'll show you how kenichiverse tops those feats.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

FRA

 

[Creaturemaster971]

Dammit Cal you beat me to it

 

[BakiHanma18]

You're missing my point, the skill required for a 9-A to beat a 7-C is vastly more than someone using 0 strength to beat an 8-B

I haven't seen that he can. I've seen he can replicate similar feats, but nowhere near to the degree of Shibukawa. Edit: also, Jack countered Shibukawa's Aiki with... Biting. Countering a technique=/=skill inherently. Shibukawa can still far outdo something like this

 

[BakiHanma18]

Feats for Shibukawa:

In the last post I showed Shibukawa's master completely stopping and oneshotting 16 year old Shibukawa in a touch and a throw, a martial artist known nationally for his Judo skill, that same boy being over 10kg heavier than the master. That same master was so scare of Shibukawa when they had their final fight, he immediately used a weapon.

Here's Shibukawa completely stopping a man 6x larger than him with a single touch

Again, rag dolling a man 6x bigger with a distinguished 15 year career as a sumo wrestler

Someone agile enough to stay on his feet while being flung around like a crash test dummy

And he's still getting absolutely played, you can even see the gap in physical strength. Shibukawa take one hit that he blocks to take less damage and is in mid air, negating the frictional resistance that would be present if his feet were planted on the ground, and he ends up just as winded as Kyogei, whose been getting yeeted the whole time.

all of this as well as his man-handling Oliva, an outright 7-C, and Musashi, another outright 7-C in terms of AP

 

[Firephoenixearl]

You're missing my point, the skill required for a 9-A to beat a 7-C is vastly more than someone using 0 strength to beat an 8-B

I haven't seen that he can. I've seen he can replicate similar feats, but nowhere near to the degree of Shibukawa. Edit: also, Jack countered Shibukawa's Aiki with... Biting. Countering a technique=/=skill inherently. Shibukawa can still far outdo something like this

No, where did you get that?

Yes but shall i mention everything Kenichi can do? Like all his skill feats and let's see how many of them Shibukawa can replicate? Oh and no scaling this time. And yeah jack countered it with biting, it means that in a fight Aiki would not be great if the opponent is adept at biting.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Feats for Shibukawa:

That's just scaling. So the aiki master being much better than the judo master.

6x times is impressive sure, but not even close to what Kenichi throws for his Akido training. All of those are stone sculptures, far heavier and larger than any human. You can see their difference with Kenichi.

Same as above.

When thrown around kenichi actually reverses the positions (throws his opponent) and still lands on his feet. Or dodges by grabing on rocks nearby.

Same feats as those above.

Yes shall i mention things Kenichi can do now?

 

[BakiHanma18]

My apologies, the gap between 0 strength and max Small Building is slightly better. The gap between minimum 10-C (0 Joules) and maximum 9-A (.25 tons) is an AP gap of ~26,000,000x. The gap between a minimum 9-A and a maximum 7-C is roughly 20,000,000.

Sure.

Yeah, that's what we saw. Doesn't mean biting is a skill, ergo countering a technique doesn't necessarily mean the biter/counterer is more skilled

 

[BakiHanma18]

Those are just lifting strength feats. The whole reason why Aikido works is because it's almost 100% reliant on human reflexes and reactions to make doing things easier. If he's just throwing around statues, the whole point of Aikido is thrown out the window

Baki can do this as well, as can Shibukawa

Yes please

 

[Firephoenixearl]

That's the point. Kenichi can already do what you mentioned.

Anyway.

Combined all martial arts to create a technique which punches through an enemy , creating "no beats", causing internal damage and damaging the 5th fist past his Round Attack. This attack has no rythym and no sign that it will attack. Mubyoshi.Learned to use Mubyoshi without startup. Mubyoshi was called splendid by Isshinsai Ogata.

Learns his Seikuuken where he can sense everything that's close to him and their exact locatio. He also reaches for the fish without needing to look at it.

Sees the next move of the fish and exactly where he needs to grab to catch the fish after he tries to escape.

Does the same thing, to the elder's kicks sensing them and instinctively blocks.

More seikuuken.

Can change his rythm, virtually becoming someone else. Does this especially well replicating different aspects of his masters.

Changed his style into Shigure which allowed him to cut things using his bare hands.

The more Kenichi fights, the stronger he gets. Went from being overpowered by base Odin to fighting on par with his Do-Sei limit breaker mode.

Can sense bloodlust.

Lacks killing intent.

Instinctive reaction.

Used Idori , which has no openings and can completely nullify any attack even if it is weapon based.

No matter how much Boris tried to analyze him, the result he got was that kenichi is a normal weak person.

Everyone can sense when someone is looking at them even from far away. The elder can do that to people looking through binoculars and even realize their position.

More skilled than Tsuji who can make afterimages and can disrupt the brain using the palm, causing instant knockouts.

Even disciple class people can tell this much about a person with a mere handshake.

Let's himself to get hit and follows the opponents energy flow to perform a powerful counter without taking much damage.

Using Taiho he can repel an opponent's technique and enlarge its effect without using any of his own power, basically like getting struck by a pole in the ground.

Can deal with attacks from 2 different opponents behind and in front of him at the same time.

Pretty badass Ryusoi Seikuke showings. Learned Ryusoi Seikuken after only having witnessed it once. Casually starts dodging attacks effortlessly from Kunou who was previously far faster, almost blitzing him. Ryusoi Seikuken can deal with opponents who outclass Kenichi in every way, being much faster and stronger. Furthermore allows Kenichi to lock onto his opponent's moves, predict them and use minimal effort to avoid. He peaks all 5 of his senses, gains a 6th sense, and makes movements accurate to the milimeter. After he improves it he learns to read the heart and thoughts of his opponent. "Cooperate with the opponent's movements, then combine with the opponent and finally dominating my own movements over his". Can dodge Shou's ultimate move without even looking at his attacks, just his eyes, he does this by predicting all his attacks by "thinking in his opponent's shoes" then overpowers his opponent dominating with his own movements over his. The second stage of Ryusui Seikuke. And third stage of Ryusui Seikuken. Reaches third stage of Ryusui Seikuken and completely crushes Satomi who had been heavily overpowering him to that point.

Reflected Shou's attack. Then counters again.

Became so good that even basic counters were hitting someone far superior to him, his attacks became a lot fiercer and lost all unnecessary movements, due to being unconscious which gave a huge boost to his skill due to losing his "heart" (kindness), basically becoming bloodlusted fighting without restraints using everything he knows.

Shou stated all of his strength was sapped by Kenichi.

Can read the hearts and emotions of his opponents.

Can use fear as a form of 6th sense to warn him of danger.

Can see people's seikuken.

Learns to see the attack trails (possible attacks one can make) of master and possibly super master class people.

Can notice a place called "korui" which if he attacks with full force no one in the disciple class can block against.

Learned Blade Parry, which allows him to slip through blade attacks. And use it against any type of attack.

Can see through the true nature of one's soul, understanding their true self.

Can realize the class level of an opponent just by sensing their Ki. And the look in their eyes.

Quite long range Ki sensing from disciple class people.

Can sense the opponents strength from a glance and simulate the entire fight and the time it will take to defeat them.

Can dodge with milimetric precision.

Went from completely unable to keep up with able to keep up with Sakaki and Hongou's fight in a matter of moments. Also has an especially strong visualization ability.

Can see the the moves of Miu (really strong Analytical Prediction).

Can read the movements of an opponent for as long as he maintains eye contact or is touching the opponent. Or even the small vibrations of his body.

Came back from having his entire ki flow stopped which resulted in his body dying on a cellular level. Reached "Ki Holding" a master level technique, which allowed him to be unaffected by Satomi's death punch and completely crushed Satomi. Capable of reversing the flow of ki of other people's attacks. Capable of letting ki flow through his body behind him not damaging him. Ki Holding even allows him to heal people.

Here. Let's see Gouki replicating these. And as i said, Gouki has to replicate these, not "Is more skilled than Doyle who can do this".

 

[BakiHanma18]

That's not really how skill works, since Yujiro via scaling can do/counter every move in his verse, as well as replicate pretty much any skill feat in his verse, and that would add to his skill. Regardless, that's still not how skill works, maybe in Kenichi to be included in a certain class, but not in general. The fact of the matter is Shibukawa can ragdoll 7-C with barely any strength, so unless Kenichi has any feats of skill comparable, Shibukawa is more skilled. Shibukawa can't replicate quite a few of these, but his feats are better than pretty much all of these. His skill should scale down from the person who's skill can cover a gap of 26,000,000x

 

[Firephoenixearl]

>Can't replicate quite a few of these

>Shibukawa is more skilled

Excuse me? Being more skilled than someone doesn't mean you can replicate their feats. So how many of these feats can Shibukawa do? Cus up to this point Kenichi literally outclasses in every category that isn't "throwing someone much stronger". And Kenichi can even deal with that technique the same way Doppo did.

Also "scale down from the person whose skill can cover a gap of 26mil".

Said person is Mikumi's disciple. A girl around mid tier in terms of High Class Disciple. Kenichi outskills her by massive amounts.

 

[BakiHanma18]

You're... excused? As to your question, Shibukawa has mastered sensing intent and rhythm by age 34 (he's like 70 or 80 now), his ragdolling 7-C counters a majority of Kenichi's counter feats and "fighting people stronger" feats, and since Kenichi isn't a Supermaster, I'm guessing he doesn't have a way to counter Shibukawa's pressure points? The 2 main ones to look out for is being able to paralyze someone by jabbing his toe into their foot and the pressure point he can activate even by spitting on someone's face, the pressure point literally causing the opponent to drown

The Mikumi's disciple has better "throwing someone much stronger" feats

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Yeah, tell me when Shibukawa does it to the degree Kenichi does.

Ragdolling 7-C doesn't really counter counter feats. Why would it? Also Mubyoshi counters the ragdolling hard, due to lacking rythym so he just pulls a doppo same for him throwing people while being thrown, that also hard counters the ragdoll.

Kenichi countered pressure points through ki flow (blood flow) control (last feat).

Also that's not even taking into account stuff like both seikukens, fighting unconscious, fighting people blitz level faster (couldn't follow with his eyes), milimetric precision dodging etc etc etc etc.

So you agree Shibukawa is still high class disciple? Given that Mikumi outdoes it.

 

[BakiHanma18]

Since age 34 as far as I'm seeing

There isn't a counter that would actually work on Shibukawa unless the user masks their rhythm and intent, hence countering the counters. Edit: and as we see in Shibukawa v Doppo, that doesn't even work anymore. Shibukawa slips the punch taking minor damage and wins the fight

So a master level technique allows him to counter pressure points, master level sounds about right

Shibukawa has been shown to be able to do those things, but there are people in Baki less skilled that have. For example, Doppo can do a few of the Seikuuken feats, but his field isn't super large to be able to sense a big field around him, he's just got a big sphere around him. Baki has some pretty impressive unconscious fighting feats, even 13 year old Baki can do things like dodge a sword slash he even says he can't see, there are 4 different people in the series with a Sixth Sense, and BoS Baki could dodge Prime Doppo's punch so closely, that he was was able to take 0 damage and kiss Doppo's fist just as his arm fully extended.

Not sure, because of ^this

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Is that so? I'd like the feats for these then:

Can see through the true nature of one's soul, understanding their true self. Can read the hearts and emotions of his opponents. After he improves it he learns to read the heart and thoughts of his opponent. Can read the movements of an opponent for as long as he maintains eye contact or is touching the opponent. Or even the small vibrations of his body. Furthermore allows Kenichi to lock onto his opponent's moves, predict them and use minimal effort to avoid.

"unless they masks their rythym". I believe you missed the part of "lacks rythym entirely". And he really ain't slipping something that deals organ damage, nor is he slipping a punch to his centre of gravity like that.

The technique is master, but the user is still a disciple.

Shibukawa alone pls. Not the "less skilled" stuff. If you really wanna debate Kenichi vs Shibukawa. I already countered all your points of the less skilled people. Let's stick to this now. Shibukawa has no reason to scale to dodging feats, unconscious or precision feats. So let's stick to Shibukawa feats alone.

This ^ is already countered by the other disciples i told you when we discussed those people.

 

[BakiHanma18]

Not sure how being able to read those things is superior to being able to read one's intention, as in what they aim or plan to do. No doubt that being able to read minds and feelings is cool, but practically speaking, know what your opponent is going to do by reading their intentions does the same thing

Doesn't matter. Bodhisattva Fist "silence's Doppo's mind", making his intentions and thoughts impossible to read. Also, it only deals organ damage if it's a clean hit, if it lands as intented, which it won't if it's slipped, or at the most it will deal less damage to organs as that's literally to purpose of a slip. There is literally nothing about one's center of gravity that makes slipping a punch harder

Right, a master level technique is required, regardless of the user. He's not using a technique in his own class to counter Shibukawa, he's using a master class technique

Yes, with different people, but Shibukawa in terms of general skill is presented as either their equal or superior, like how Shibukawa is never explicitly stated or shown (I don't think anyway) to have Analytical Prediction, yet he is superior to every version of Baki up until possibly NGB without a doubt, and even 13 y/o Baki can predict all the moves of black belt level and master level martial artists

 

[Firephoenixearl]

He literally reads thoughts and predicts his opponents move perfectly with that. What's the best thing Shibukawa has done with his intent? Kenichi massively dwarfs here in this aspect.

Silence his mind? Oh yeah like unconscious fighting. And Kenichi can literally as i said, lack rythym or even change it. It not being stated doesn't mean it's not a thing, it's literally the reson "No limits Fallacy" exists, to prevent the "nothing outside of x was stated to bypass it therefore nothing should". A hit to the centre of gravity is much harder to slip than a hit to the head or limbs. Which is why if someone pushes your shoulder it is just moved backwards, but if someone pushes your chest, you step back entirely, otherwise you'd fall.

As a disciple, don't forget that. So word it however you want, this is still disciple class.

Yes "general skill" not "every skill" impossible scaling. A sword master and a boxer can be similar in terms of general skill, doesn't mean you just scale everything one does to the other.

 

[BakiHanma18]

Save for being massively outsped or Doppo using Bodhisattva Fist the first time, he's pretty much done the same, as in predict his opponent's reactions and movements

No, not like unconscious fighting. He stops his thought and intentions from being read. Doing anything with rhythm wouldn't matter, Kenichi would throw the hit, Shibukawa would slip it as it's hitting him, and then he uses Aiki. No Limit Fallacy is to stop someone from claiming that something has no limit, not to stop scaling. Striking at the center of gravity is actually one of the worst places on the torso to strike, as while strikes to the torso are difficult to slip, a center of gravity strike can be slipped left, right, low, and high by definition.

No it's not, he's literally not using a Disciple class move to counter. The feat is for a master class skill, as the skill is labeled master class because it's the standard for master classes. Kenichi knowing it doesn't make it Disciple class.

Sure, but things like analysis are universal for all martial artists, so something like that would be classed as general skill. Anyone of any style or discipline can analyze and predict an opponent

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Need a feat if possible.

Oh wait if i recall correctly its by being calm which is literally seikuken and again mubyoshi is that but better. And where did you get the "left right high and low" you don't just slip in directions when you're hit in a way that specifically doesn't allow rotation (which is what slipping does). Also mubyoshi owned Siegfried who dwarfs shibukawa in terms of slipping and countering.

As I said it's a master class move but it doesn't make the user any more than disciple. A disciple can use master class moves but he's still disciple class.

No you can be better than someone in skill but not outmatch his analysis on prediction.

 

[BakiHanma18]

It's not exactly possible if you catch my drift. It's the fundamentals of how Aikido works: in order for even the most basic of moves to work, you have to be able to predict what the opponent intends to do (that's how you pick what course of action you should take, because if you choose incorrectly, the move just flat-out doesn't work. Since all of Shibukawa's moves do as intended barring a technique or skill on the opponent's part to stop it, it's shown that be can at least predict intention like Aikido says he should be able to). You also have to predict the reaction. If you predict their intention, like of a straight right, and you get them into an Aikido arm lock but don't account for body positioning, it will literally do nothing and the opponent can just reach over with their other arm and hit you, when a proper Aikido arm lock locks the arm in prediction that they would do that and bend the arm at an angle to make this impossible

Ill just post it again and we can discuss it. https://youtu.be/wQEE24dD6-M toward the end

Slipping isn't rotation, slipping just can be rotation. Slipping can also just be outright movement, like if someone tries a right-handed gut punch, if I move diagonally to the back and left, at best, they'd clip my side, completely missing the intended target

The user can be Low class, but if the move is listed as a master class technique, then in that instance, there is nothing anything in the Disciple can do to counter pressure points, or else the Disciple class would use a Disciple class move

That is both A) not the case in most instances and B) not how skill is portrayed in Baki. Generally (with exceptions of course), if someone like 13y/o Baki can do something, almost anyone that's at least Maximum Tournament level can replicate it to some degree

 

[Firephoenixearl]

That's literally average human. Basket players do that literally all the time to perform ankle breaks. Also we were talking about reading thoughts and emotions here not predicting, though kenichi outdoes in prediction too. Though don't you ever compare featless intention reading to reading the flow and mind to dodge blitz level attacks with milimetric precision. Or reading hearts, true self etc. Kenichi just far dwarfs in this point.

Will do tomorrow since am on phone rn.

That's not what shibukawa does though.

There are disciples who can do pressure points too. Kenichi's master class technique was needed to counter pressure points that can cause cellular level death. Don't even try to compare the 2.

1) Leave cases go to feats. 2) Prove it. Prove shibukawa can do everything kid baki can.

 

[BakiHanma18]

Yes, what I described was the basics of non combat applicable real life Aikido. Not only is this a crazy version of Aikido where you can completely paralyze someone just by placing your hand on their arm, but this is also a combat applicable version of that, and the highest level of mastery possible for this insane version of combat applicable Aikido

Thats 100% what he does. Doppo punches him in the face and he moves in the direction of the punch to not get destroyed like the first time and then destroys him

Doing any kind of pressure points and doing what Shibukawa is doing is vastly different. Even Retsu can strike all the pressure points he can hit with his fingers with his toes as well. Shibukawa pressure point paralyzed thing for 1 has apparently never even been done before, let alone in combat, and how many Disciples can strike a pressure point with a glob of spit and cause their opponent to drown?

1) Its a general idea in combat even in real life, I'm not sure what exactly it is you're asking for. 2) Not only does Shibukawa far exceed Kid Baki does offensively and defensively case by case per all of Kid Baki's skill feats as I'm looking at them, but for one, Shibukawa's entire fighting style is reliant on reading someone's intent and rhythm, and he was able to spot and almost take advantage of a finger sized opening in Baki-Dou Baki's stance.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Watched it again. It's just lacking killing intent, literally what kenichi has passively.

Also goki countered it because he literally knew it was coming and was faster. Not being able to do that to an attack you know is coming is pitiful, especially when you're fast enough to say sentences as the attack is coming.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

You literally said nothing regarding prediction or analysing your opponents heart, emotion, thought, rhythm etc.

He rotates his chin to move out of the punches way. He doesn't move backwards, the punch moved him.

You're arguing those pressure points being above cellular level death via pressure points. Im not gonna say stuff like "cellular level death hax it's more impressive than baki verse combined" but know your limits. Don't debate pressure points when you have this feat existing.

1) Absolutely not. Where did you ever get reading thoughts or predicting several moves ahead irl? Irl the most you can do is trick/bait nothing more. 2) Exceeds offensively and defensively not in prediction, dodging etc. Being reliant on very weak versions of those doesn't mean you scale it to the best feats. Abusing small openings is sth kenichi already does, search korui above. But that's still not a way you can scale all of Blair's feats to goki.

 

[BakiHanma18]

First off, "...when an opponent's mind becomes that silent..."

Second off, no, he straight up let it hit him while charging forward, turns his head with the punch, wraps Doppo's arm with his chin, and defeats him

Though to save some time, I'm going to make a new thread. I think a more efficient way of arguing considering Yujiro's nature in the series is debate about him directly and bring up others as examples of what he basically skill trounces

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Cus it had no killing intent, no bloodlust.

Yes, he rotated his chin. That's all he did to "slip"

Wdym make a new thread?

 

[BakiHanma18]

Cus it had no killing intent, no bloodlust.
Yes, he rotated his chin. That's all he did to "slip"

Wdym make a new thread?

No, he silenced his mind, his thoughts. That's why Shibukawa couldn't read his intentions as he was before Doppo used Bodhisattva Fist

Yes, and he visibly moves, as we even see his feet

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/4143327< I'll drop all of Yujiro's feats and then we can discuss those and the stuff he has from all from upscaling from his verse

 

[Firephoenixearl]

The only stated thing from mind silencing is lack of killing intent.

That's not part of the slip it's part of the throw.

Ok I guess.